Sideboard Choices for B/U Dragon

[everythingitouchdies]

I have been playing dragon consistently for a while now but only recently switched to a black blue build instead of an aggressive suicidal black green build. Overall I am much happier with the sudden consistency of my combo deck, and its ability to answer my opponent's disruption.

Like I said I have been consistently playing dragon, and therefore it is thoroughly hated. Until recently it was always tormod's crypt which is easy enough to play around, or coffin purge which I handled without too much difficulty this past week. But now things have turned for the worse as many opponents are determined to shut me out. The cards I am seeing now are stuff like Ankh of Mishra, Root Maze, and Ground Seal. This is in addition to being prepared for hand hidden hate like STP or Naturalize.

I can usually beat out the handheld disruption between duress and FOW, but I am not entirely certain on what to go with to deal with permenants. I tried out Chain of Vapor, which I loved for its cheap mana cost and ingenuity, but the consideration of Echoing Truth has come to mind simply because it seems both more versatile and capable of dealing with games gone wrong, like decree token beatdown or multiple active welders, etc.

Previous Sideboard:

4 Stifle (based on expectations of tormod's crypt and seal of cleansing)
3 Chain of Vapor (expected Humility and Root Maze)
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Verdant Force (not sure anymore why I wanted this)
3 Sundering Titan (last minute changed to plated slagwurm, same as VF)

Current Sideboard:

3 Stifle
3 Echoing Truth
3 Annul
2 Coffin Purge
2 Chain of Vapor or 2 Verdant Force???


Metagame Notes:

I see a variety of keeper in different forms, not heavy but everpresent, as well as a recent rise in TNT and other Blood Moon Maindecking players, for which one happily has compulsion, Tog, occasional draw 7, occasional parfait, and an occasional dragon deck, along with a slew of aggro decks that never concern me.

Stifle: I didnt actually cast this spell in a useful way in my last tournament, but I feel somehow I would wish I had it if I cut it.

Echoing Truth: There was only one time I cast Chain of Vapor where I didnt wish it was this card. Also good against decree tokens.

Annul: This card counters nearly everything that messes me up.

Coffin Purge: Anti welder... platinum angel, duplicant, etc.

Chain of Vapor: Additional bounce... I just need to get their stuff off the board long enough to win... the card seems good but could be cut if there is a better card to play...

Verdant Force: I loved to side in creatures when I played black green dragon, but now it doesnt seem so important... I can combo against control.


Any insight or better suggestions would be appreciated.

EITD

[TheBrassMan]

well, it sounds to me like you'd gain a lot in your meta by adding green for Deed, but if you're going to be sticking w/blue, here's what I'd run:

3 Stifle
3 Echoing Truth
2 Coffin Purge
2 Verdant Force/Sundering Titan
1 Sliver Queen
1 Caller of the Claw
3 Null Rod/Chalice

     I wouldn't drop your big guys, they're a very versatile secondary win condition.  In your meta, Sundering Titans are probably better than Verdant Force, but you might want to run The Best Fatty Ever Printed if you think you're going to see any Stax/wMUD, FCG, or if the Random Aggro starts getting better.  

     I like the Stifles myself, but if you don't see a lot of Wastelands or other effects, you could cut them for more bounce, the 3 echoing truths should be fine though.

     The Caller of the Claw can get around Root Maze and possibly Ahnk if your life total's not hurting too badly.  If you're powered you should be able to play around Ahnk with Compulsion into Recall and stacking the effects, but if not you might want to cut the Sliver Queen for a second Caller or fourth Echoing Truth.

     Finally the artifact disruption slot, if you're just seeing Draw 7 than Chalice should probably be plenty, but if there's any Slaver in your meta, Null Rod feels like a stronger choice.
     
     All in all, it seems like your meta's adapted to your deck, and it might not be the smartest move to keep running it, but for all the hate that gets thrown at it, Dragon's pretty resiliant... not knowing your maindeck, I think that sideboard's pretty solid.

[everythingitouchdies]

The Maindeck looks like this:

Mana Sources:

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
3 Island
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta

Engine:
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
3 Compulsion

Animate Spells:
3 Necromancy
1 Dance of the Dead
4 Animate Dead

Creatures:
3 Worldgorger Dragon
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Ambassador Laquatus
1 Sliver Queen

Disruption:
4 Force of Will
3 Duress

Tutors:
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Lim-Dul’s Vault
3 Intuition

Utility:
1 Time Walk
3 Deep Analysis


I do not own an ancestral so I have to play cowboy without it, but I seem to be doing fine. I sometimes wander if I am running one too many lands (the 3rd island) but it never seems flooded or pinched. Also the basics help a ton against blood moon. I sometimes wonder about the choice of tutors as well, but as of yet have not regretted having whichever is in my hand.

The other major problem comes in knowing what to sideboard against which decks. Often I am trying to guess what hate I am going to face, as most of the decks I face do not win before I do.

[BreathWeapon]

If your seeing MD Hate, or just lots of Hate games 2&3 then Scrivener and 3xCunning Wish instead of the normal kill conditions is an option for you. Being able to ignore Blessing with Stroke and Damping Matrix via Scrivener/Wish alone is a plus, and game 2 you don't have to board as many conditional cards in. Root Maze is a joke, just Draw the game if it resolves.

I really don't know how you can survive with out green. It's total suicide.

[everythingitouchdies]

Root Maze is a joke, just Draw the game if it resolves.

I really don't know how you can survive with out green. It's total suicide.

Forcing a draw against Root maze is no issue, and I hope after doing it a few more times the card will dissapear

I have been doing fairly well without green, I dont see the need to diversify my manabase and reduce my overall blue count unless it becomes absolute necessity. I dont miss Xantid swarm at all, but I wouldnt mind having pernicious deed from time to time.


EITD

[ekermann]

What about Deed, beacuse there are so many ways to manipulate your graveyard. Like Ground Seal, Withered Wretch etc, etc. And you must have at least one Chain of Vapor in the sideboard. Beacuse there are people playing with Ivory Mask or Solitary Confinement.

[ELD]

In regards to root maze, it shows up in madness decks most often.  If they keep squee's in the graveyard, you're not going to be able to draw the game.

[dicemanx]

You can still draw the game as long as they don't have more than 1 Squee in the graveyard. Still, Root Maze is the last card I'd ever worry about when playing Dragon, because no respectable deck will play any Mazes in the main deck. Post SB, you have various tools at your disposal to deal with such cards. BUG Dragon has Deed, while B/U Dragon can run cards like Chain of Vapor or Engineered Explosives. Still, it's worth noting that the time of permanent-based Dragon hate has passed; it's the instant speed hate that you have to worry about, which makes cutting green and the Xantids look foolish. All experienced Dragon players will tell you that adding a third color doesn't affect consistency to any great extent, and the supposed vulnerability to non-basic hate is illusory.    

One last thing: my problem with the build presented in this thread is the fact that it is lacking full acceleration, and there are only 18 sources total. That is extremely low. Plus, it doesn't run a full complement of WGDs, which is a mistake.

I propose making the following changes:

- 1x Animate Dead
- 1x Time Walk
- 1x Squee
- 1x Deep Analysis

+1x WGD
+3x mana sources (do you have the off color Moxes?)

[Zelc]

You can draw the game if there is any number of creatures in the gy other than the Worldgorger Dragon if you have two animate cards.  Simply animate a random creature first, then animate the Worldgorger Dragon.  Everything goes out of play and then into play again.  However, the animated creature "forgets" that it was animated after passing through the zones, and stays in play.  This allows you to target the Worldgorger Dragon and a different creature with your two animate cards.  Repeat until there's a bunch of creatures in play and none in the graveyard except for the Worldgorger Dragon.  Congrats, you have drawn the game.

[dicemanx]

You can draw the game if there is any number of creatures in the gy other than the Worldgorger Dragon

Yes, but not when the oppoent has more than one Squee in the yard.

[ELD]

In regards to drawing the game, come on now, squee is legendary.  Let's read the cards before we post if we don't even know what they do.  

Alright, less pointing out ignorance and more helpful suggestions.  More recent dragon decks have been using pernicious deed to handle permanant hate as it also works to slow down the opposing win.  It sounds like deed would be very solid in your meta.  If people are playing random jank hoping to stop dragon, it's probably not the most competitive meta on earth.  Deed does really well in that type of enviornment.  All that said, I'm not convinced you need to splash green if deed is the only reason for it.  

When I ran dragon back in the day, I used rushing rivers to bounce permanant based hate.  Back then it wasn't uncommon to face a seal of cleansing and a meddling mage on the board.  The ablility to get them both with one card was always solid.  

Necromancy has been my greatest friend vs hate and disruption.  It comes out at instant speed so it resolves easier, or at least taps out an opponent eot.  It also works around ankh as long as you have compulsion or another way to get an instant speed kill into your hand.  

I see that the list here isn't running ancestral.  There's no real replacement for it in this deck.  It allows for the instant speed win and improves the deck even without that very important aspect.  Until you aquire one, it may be worth running a cunning wish, just so you can win before the ankh damage resolves.  I can't stress enough how much ancestral changes the deck.  It's like time walk in hulk, it allows you to win games you really should lose.  You can be at one, with an opposing ankh of mishra from a deck playing 4x gaea's blessing and none of it matters cause of a one mana spell that is hugely impactful 99.9% of the time you draw it.  

As far as Verdant Force, he was tech vs the workshop decks that were cropping up when chalice got printed.  His saproling tokens were mighty handy to sac to smokestack, tap for tanglewire etc.  I'm not sure why he's still around.  I don't think I've ever lost to dragon when it tries to board into bad reanimator.  It's just not too menacing to when a combo means you have just 3 turns to live.  Honestly, 3 turns is forever in type 1.  I'd say that if you really wanted extra fat in the board, something like sliver queen is probably better.  It allows for a combo kill, pitches to force and can be brought back if things are going terribly wrong.

[kill doug]

i'm almost an exclusive dragon player that's what i'm know for in my meta
realy throw in 2 green duals (tropical + bayou) this will cover all your bases for green that is needed for the side

The Side Board
4 xantid swarm
3 pernicious deed
4 stifle
3 chalice of the void
1 caller of the claw

the numbers can be changed a little bit xantids are the anti-germbus so for is almost a must think of it as a permanent duress that makes them get rid of there entire hand until end of turn. deeds are used for so many different things and even if they want to destroy it. it wastes a destroy enchanment out of there hand. Stifle are versitile tormods, belcher, salver,tendrils ti goes with out saying chalice of the void is debatible i personaly never side these in except for germbus because it hurts them so much if it hits for 1 or 2 plus it would have to waste a counter. if it hits wait for a xantid or if an animate resolves pitch it then target for the kill next turn

[everythingitouchdies]

One last thing: my problem with the build presented in this thread is the fact that it is lacking full acceleration, and there are only 18 sources total. That is extremely low. Plus, it doesn't run a full complement of WGDs, which is a mistake.

I propose making the following changes:

- 1x Animate Dead
- 1x Time Walk
- 1x Squee
- 1x Deep Analysis

+1x WGD
+3x mana sources (do you have the off color Moxes?)

I do have off color moxes, in the form of emerald and pearl. You have actually hit my frustrations on the head here, about one in five games I just cant seem to get a dragon in the graveyard and about one in 4 I dont have the mana to intuition or necromancy when I have it.

Time Walk is a 98% dead play, more often pitched to FOW than cast. When it is cast its just so I can play another land or bazaar again... not the most broken plays.



Also, drawing the game is not really an issue... its only had to happen maybe five times in 20 tournaments. The primary problem that invoked this thread was how to best deal with permanent based hate with a non-green build. In the end I think the answer is a return to green, but I am going to play it out for a while to see.


Revised Sideboard (dropping the fatty plan):

3 Stifle
4 Chain of Vapor
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Coffin Purge
3 Annul


Reasons Being:

Stifle is an excellent utility answer to a myriad of hate.

Chain of Vapor remains a cheap, versatile way to pop a permanent off the board, and now that I am not misplaying it and wrecking myself, it appears the best choice

Chalice of the Void : Draw 7 etc.

Coffin Purge : Random Duplicants, Blessings, Platinums, etc.

Annul: all the bad permanent hate can be countered by this.


EITD

[everythingitouchdies]

One last thing: my problem with the build presented in this thread is the fact that it is lacking full acceleration, and there are only 18 sources total. That is extremely low. Plus, it doesn't run a full complement of WGDs, which is a mistake.

I propose making the following changes:

- 1x Animate Dead
- 1x Time Walk
- 1x Squee
- 1x Deep Analysis

+1x WGD
+3x mana sources (do you have the off color Moxes?)

I do have off color moxes, in the form of emerald and pearl. You have actually hit my frustrations on the head here, about one in five games I just cant seem to get a dragon in the graveyard and about one in 4 I dont have the mana to intuition or necromancy when I have it.

Time Walk is a 98% dead play, more often pitched to FOW than cast. When it is cast its just so I can play another land or bazaar again... not the most broken plays.



Also, drawing the game is not really an issue... its only had to happen maybe five times in 20 tournaments. The primary problem that invoked this thread was how to best deal with permanent based hate with a non-green build. In the end I think the answer is a return to green, but I am going to play it out for a while to see.


Revised Sideboard (dropping the fatty plan):

3 Stifle
4 Chain of Vapor
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Coffin Purge
3 Annul


Reasons Being:

Stifle is an excellent utility answer to a myriad of hate.

Chain of Vapor remains a cheap, versatile way to pop a permanent off the board, and now that I am not misplaying it and wrecking myself, it appears the best choice

Chalice of the Void : Draw 7 etc.

Coffin Purge : Random Duplicants, Blessings, Platinums, etc.

Annul: all the bad permanent hate can be countered by this.


EITD

[BreathWeapon]

You can't over come Fish with out Men consistantly, IMO. There is absolutley no reason not to run the ReAnimator conversion.

[dicemanx]

3 Stifle
4 Chain of Vapor
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Coffin Purge
3 Annul

Chalice, Purge, and Chain of Vapor are all solid choices, although Tormod's Crypt is better than Purge vs Hulk and the mirror.

However, what would you bring Stifles in against? They are decent in the mirror, but are otherwise weak (there are better ways of dealing with Crypts). I'd rather run Engineered Explosives as a catch-all in those slots.

The Annuls are also very weak. You already have 4 CoV, so why stress yourself over permanents so much, especially if you add Explosives? I'd consider devoting those slots to overcome control decks/gayR via the reanimator route, because they will bring in some instant speed removal against you and you will have to have some way of baiting counters with your animate spells without fear of the removal spells.

I don't think I've ever lost to dragon when it tries to board into bad reanimator. It's just not too menacing to when a combo means you have just 3 turns to live. Honestly, 3 turns is forever in type 1. I'd say that if you really wanted extra fat in the board, something like sliver queen is probably better. It allows for a combo kill, pitches to force and can be brought back if things are going terribly wrong.

3 turns could be a short clock vs Keeper and gay/r. I don't think that the reanimator route is so terrible in B/u, but it is pointless in BUG builds. The reason: Xantids in BUG allow you to bait with animate spells, while in B/u you might have a lot of difficulty in going off with WGD post SB when they bring instant-speed hate against you.

I'd play Sliver Queen MD in B/u, and SB either Plated Slagwurm(s) or Verdant Forces. Forces might be a decent idea if MUD/Stax starts making a resurgence as well.

[BreathWeapon]

Well, considering Fish is one of the most popular budget decks, and Xantid Swarms completely suck vs Fish, that makes FAT pretty important IMO. Are you saying your getting exceptable win percentages from Dragon vs Fish with  out Men?

What else do you replace Squee with in the Aggro Match Ups?

[dicemanx]

Xantid Swarms completely suck vs Fish

This is not completely true. It really depends on how many pingers beyond the 4 Grims that fish runs.

[everythingitouchdies]

I have not seen a fish deck in my meta ever. However keeper is a pretty consistent matchup... wouldnt Sundering Titan be better against keeper than Vedant Force? They run b/u so I should have no problem not whacking my own land, and if they kill it they lose more land.