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Author Topic: What can be done about Belcher and Draw7 (correct title!!!!)  (Read 1909 times)
MatzeXXL
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« on: June 29, 2004, 02:53:17 pm »

OK again and again.

I have not broken a single rule I post a normal question and all the Mods can do is playing god trying to forbid me my mouth......

You are such bitches? Didnt your mother treat you well so that you have to nerve nice guys here.

Hmmmm.....the atmosphere here is not good so far I dont like to post here anyway......

Tell me what my fault was.....explain before closing......

Have fun and feel mighty closing this again.....
If i knew you i would smash you in your ugly faces....


My question:

What can be put for example in a 3c-4c 4cControl to make matchups better against these 2 decks?

Some ideas: Stifle, Duress, Mind Twist, Counterthings, Arcane Laboratory (Tendrils....does Lab help here), Null Rod....what else???

The decks (dont discuss about the exact decklists, I just want hints what to GENERALLY do against them)

The Draw7:

1 Memory Jar
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Necropotence
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Diminishing Returns
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mind's Desire
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Windfall
1 Crop Rotation
1 Fastbond
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Dark Ritual
1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Glimmervoid
1 Tolarian Academy

SB:
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Illusionary Mask
4 Phrexian Dreadnough
3 Hurkyl's Recall


Belcher:

/Search
3 Spoils of the Vault
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Land Grant

//Disruption
3 Duress
3 Unmask
2 Cabal Therapy

//Acceleration
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Tinder Wall
4 Eladamri's Vineyard
4 Chromatic Sphere

//The Broken
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Channel

//Land
1 Bayou

//Kill
4 Goblin Charbelcher
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combo_dude
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« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2004, 02:53:54 pm »

You don't really learn, do you... :shock:  Crying or Very sad
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MatzeXXL
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« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2004, 02:55:32 pm »

I try but there is simply nothing i did wrong and i get everything closed under my ass without getting a chance....dont you think this is bullshit?
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Setnakt
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« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2004, 02:55:32 pm »

Haha you lose.
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Hi-Val
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« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2004, 02:56:40 pm »

Please see this thread:

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18027

You've violated rules 1, 5 and 6. You've reposted something two times after it being locked. Instead of reading the rules and correcting your post or searching for other threads, you posted again. I don't wanna sound like a jerk here, but it appears that you're just blindly flaunting the rules that allow us to be better posters and answer your questions.

In regards to your post, here's the main problem with it. 4CC has incredible matchups against combo, like you wouldn't believe. It runs 8 counters and usually some Duress power as well as Gorilla Shaman, making combo struggle. If you're having problems against the decks, it might be you as a player and not the deck.

Posting decklists and three lines of discussion, not to mention throwing ad hominem attacks at everyone else, is not the way to get answers.

Here's a way you can salvage this thread. Post what difficulties you've run into when playing against combo and why your 4CC is doing poorly. Have you read the 5+ pages of discussion on it in the full user forum? Do you know the strategies of not only playing 4CC, but playing the combo decks, so that you know the enemy from within? Did you use the search function to see what other people have been saying about the combo decks and their weaknesses? How many games have you actually played against them to where you think it's a bad matchup? It may just be a losing streak.

I'm not gonna tell you what to do, so you're welcome to call us all fags and bitches and leave the boards, never to be seen again. Or you could stay around and possibly benefit from some intelligent discussion.

And for Kowal: OMG PWNT.
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MatzeXXL
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« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2004, 02:56:50 pm »

Dont care.
I have a life outside the net..... Wink
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Jebus
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« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2004, 02:56:52 pm »

Amazing.
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2004, 03:03:24 pm »

Quote
One of the biggest duties the Moderators of TMD have is closing bad threads and disciplining disruptive posters. This Tips thread is designed to give TMD users a better understanding of how to avoid our mighty lightning bolts from on high. It will also, incidentally, be very convenient to have something to point to when we have to take action.

Here is a list of the most common reasons we have to step in. We have law students among us, so I'll note that this is not an exhaustive list; there will be situations not covered here.


(You managed to hit ALL of these with your latest attempt)

1. Writing Skills
2. Inflammatory Posts
3. Unjustified Thread Redundancy
4. Blatant Ignorance
5. Lack of Content
6. Failure to Search or Use Private Messaging
7. Unnecessary Whining
8. Prohibited Topics

In case you can't follow links:

1. Writing Skills

Sometimes people forget that this is a message board and not IRC or AIM. We certainly understand that many of the users on TMD are from foreign countries and English is not their first language. The easiest way to let us know this is to put it in the "Location" entry in your TMD profile, though you can also mention it in the text of your post. This will allow us to take the most appropriate action.

Obviously no one is perfect. If you make the occasional error it isn't a problem; even the angelic and polite TMD staff is not infallible. But please make an effort.

Some of the best tips to make sure you are posting readably are:

(1) Don't post in all-capital letters. On the internet, this is like shouting, and is quite rude.
(2) Don't post in all-lowercase. On the internet, this is the equivalent of speaking in slang to your boss. Use the shift button; this is not an AIM conversation.
(2) Run-on sentences. Separate your ideas. Trying to cram too many of them together makes it impossible to know what you are saying.
(3) Punctuation, especially commas. While you may or may not think omitting punctuation is a great literary innovation, TMD is not a stream-of-conscious storytelling forum. We really do insist that "can't" is different from "cant".
(4) Paragraph breaks. If you post a huge glob of text with no paragraph breaks, your post is much harder to follow. Don't put in a blank line every sentence, but if you go on for more than six or seven lines (assuming 1024-pixel monitor width, the TMD standard) you probably need one.
(5) Correct tagging. If you use functions like quoting or italics, please try to open and close them appropriately.
(6) One sentence-ending punctuation mark, please. You look like an idiot if you end a question with "???" or even "??". Ending every statement with an ellipse ("...") is also very dumb. Rarely, you may ask a question very emphatically or with a lot of surprise, and then "?!" is permitted.
(7) SPELL. CORRECTLY. Nothing is more annoying than someone who wants to be taken seriously, and yet misspells half of the words in his posts. Keep this one well-controlled.

The most important way to make yourself avoid these mistakes is to use the Preview function before you post. I probably Preview about 90% of my posts, and the longer ones several times as I'm composing them. It really
helps. As does rereading your post after you put it up--before you run off somewhere else for hours. Taking these minimal steps will make all of your posts look much better and make other members much more inclined to take your ideas seriously.

2. Inflammatory Posts

This is very simple. In the past, even minor flame exchanges have been issued warnings. The Moderators and Administrators have no patience for people making immature attacks on each other. You should keep your disagreement confined to the argument another user is putting forward rather than making statements about that user. Who you hate and how bad you think people are, are topics that should generally be left for IRC and other places where it doesn't get in the way of serious discussion.

To be safe, keep your swearing to a minimum, as well. If you can't think of a better word at least most of the time, you should probably be spending your time reading books to expand your vocabulary instead of posting something vulgar. :)

One particular thing to avoid is win percentages. These basically always act as flamemagnets and don't accomplish much.


3. Unjustified Thread Redundancy

If there's been a recent thread on the topic you're starting a new thread for, we'll probably lock yours. It's not because we like you less, it's because it's impossible to have multiple quality discussions about the same topic simultaneously--if you have points, put them in the other thread.

Even if there's no currently active discussion about something, check to see if there has been one in the past month or so. If there has, make sure you're not just repeating what's been said before. Also, verify that something is different about the topic since it was last brought up. (For instance, a major new archetype was released or a new set came out, and you think a less-popular deck could be better in the new environment.)

In the same vein, don't revive a thread more than a week or so dormant without a really good reason.


4. Blatant Ignorance

We don't want to invoke this one too often, but sometimes, to be honest, your post is just not up to par. The Mana Drain is a place for the most advanced Type One deckbuilding on any public forum available. One of the fundamental assumptions is that you have some knowledge of the format's current state (perhaps you found the site through StarCity articles) and because of this will make intelligent suggestions and ask reasonable questions.

If you don't show us some minimal understanding, we'll quite possibly lock your thread. If this happens, try reading up on the StarCity archives of JP Meyer and Steve Menendian (heck, even me, Philip Stanton, if you want). Or just lurk for a while and read what people post, especially in the closed Type One forum. After a week or so, you ought to have a much better idea of what the TMD consensus is on things, which will make your next thread much better.

5. Lack of Content

When I was a basic user back in September-November, 2003, I doubt if I started more than two or three threads, ever. Many of our recently promoted members are the same way. You shouldn't start a thread if you don't have anything of substance to say. Never start a thread with one short paragraph, and please, please, please not with just a decklist. You have no idea how many decklist threads there have been, and how quickly they are locked. When you start a thread, make sure to discuss your card choices, why you think the deck is good, what matchups you've been having problems with, etc. Just make sure you've got content, and not crap.

This point is also important for people replying to threads. Please don't just call an idea stupid, explain why you think it is wrong. Articulate your thinking. One-line posts are a bad idea, especially as a basic user, because other users don't know you as well as they know the most prominent members of the site, and thus don't have any background context to understand what you are saying.

6. Failure to Search or Use Private Messaging

This is in fact distinct from #3 (Unjustified Thread Redundancy). This rule includes the ever-popular request for decklists, posts like "Joe, if you see this, I'll be at the tournament on Saturday." or other such brief, inane posts. Nearly all of these break other rules as well, but because they are so annoying, we have a special rule about them. Please, before you ask a question, think "could this be easily answered by using the TMD search engine and/or Google?" and "should I be posting this where it will be in the faces of hundreds upon hundreds of people?"

7.  Unnecessary Whining

One of the things which has plagued TMD in the past is an absolute ton of worthless whining. A little whining is productive, and occasionally the whining topics need to be taken out of the closet so that we can all get it out of our system and then shut the hell up again. But for the most part, starting a thread about these is like walking into a political discussion and yelling controversial things just to tick people off.

Some of the topics you should try to avoid: number of proxies, reprinting cards on the reserved list, how the high cost of Type One is ruining everything, banning cards, restricting cards, unrestricting cards, and ESPECIALLY how TMD is a bunch of elitist jerks*.

If you feel you must post about these things, please do your homework and find the past threads about them, and try to say something original or explain why you felt compelled to open your mouth despite this warning and the fact that these threads are almost always locked to end the pointless flaming.

* : The latter deserves a special word: We have a rather large and dedicated Moderator staff, as well as over a hundred Full Members and Vintage Adepts. If you post well, you will be noticed and considered for promotion. In addition, you can request a membership test in the appropriate thread. We will consider you as seriously as you present yourself.

We are quite open to new people and new ideas. In fact, we are downright friendly and do our best to help new users become better ones who enrich the community. We like new decks and unusual thinking, so if we tell you your deck is obsolete or horrible, please don't get all indignant. Attempt a rational rebuttal if you think you see flaws in our reasoning. But you will not get anywhere by calling people closed-minded or unwilling to accept your brilliance. Imagine saying that to your teacher for giving you a bad grade, and you will see how ridiculous we find the accusations.


8.  Prohibited Topics

TMD is a Type One-only site. Discussion of other formats (and prolonged discussion of other games like ch-ess) should be left to more appropriate sites for those hobbies.

TMD does not allow trading. This has caused way too much trouble in the past, and we just don't want to deal with disputes among users claiming to have been cheated. We make an exception for full members posting specific rare cards they're trying to obtain, but insist that it be kept to Private Messages after the post.

TMD does not allow political discussions, because they ALWAYS end in flames and disastrous locking. Just don't even go there.

Finally, criticizing TMD policy in a thread ON TMD really is as dumb as it sounds. Just use the PM function.
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To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
Dr. Sylvan
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2004, 04:11:07 pm »

Just as a general announcement for everyone because I see this all the time, if you know a thread is gonna be locked, do not post in it. Why have your good name anywhere near such worthless tripe? It's essentially spam, and we strongly discourage it.

As to Jacob's last comment about criticizing TMD policy; the best way to criticize it is by PM. If you're reasonable and intelligent, we're more than happy to bring things up with other mods/admins. If you're just a whiner, we'll treat you as such. Posting your thread three times in a row does not encourage us to treat you as a reasonable person.
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