A new type one format?

[Twaun007]

Moderators, I did not know if this should be posted in the casual forums or not so feel free to move it if need be. Thanks.

Well all of my fellow gamers went to Columbus this weekend to play in team standard and it got me thinking. With all of the type one teams talkin about each other, in a friendly way of coarse. What if there was some way that the type one community could come up with a team eternal format. It would be pretty neat I would think to have your team battle another team. Just think of the bragging rights.
A problem rises in the format though ,the rules about teams sharing a certain card pool would have to be modified. Other than that I don't see anything wrong.
I know that I would participate in an event like this. So lets here what the community has to say.
w00tize
 

[GrandpaBelcher]

Dude, I'm in.

I bet there'd be problems getting that many people together, though, without it being a big event like SCG or Waterbury.  I'd still play.  Do you have to play three distinct decks, or could everyone on a team play the same deck?  Would you even want to?  I know most standard teams all play different decks with different matchups hoping to meet the odds head on rather than beating them.

I suppose it remains to be seen.

[Matt]

A problem rises in the format though ,the rules about teams sharing a certain card pool would have to be modified.

Why? Let teams have to choose who gets the Lotus, that makes it tricky.

[Machinus]

I think many Vintage teams/friends already do this. They share power and other expensive cards, and that ends up affecting their deck choices.

However, I think this would make a Vintage environment less fun and interesting. With only 1/3 of the power, cards like null rod get worse, and cards like mana drain get better. I love control decks, but this sounds like a boring format.

This seems way more interesting in Legacy though, since the majority of decks don't run so many of the exact same cards. It would be much easier for a team to construct three orthogonal (it seemed like the best word here...) decks, but it would really diversify tournaments done in this format.

[sean1i0]

I joke a lot that a Vintage team format would be 1 vintage deck and 2 legacy decks.  But in all seriousness, if this were to happen, then I think that the best way to go about it would be to say that the restricted cards ignore the "shared cardpool" rule and that each player may play with whichever of those cards he wants without affecting his teammates choice.  Otherwise, it really would 1 vintage deck and 2 legacy decks.  I think that would be a lot of fun, too.

[jpmeyer]

Legacy team might be fun.

[orgcandman]

I joke a lot that a Vintage team format would be 1 vintage deck and 2 legacy decks.  But in all seriousness, if this were to happen, then I think that the best way to go about it would be to say that the restricted cards ignore the "shared cardpool" rule and that each player may play with whichever of those cards he wants without affecting his teammates choice.  Otherwise, it really would 1 vintage deck and 2 legacy decks.  I think that would be a lot of fun, too.

That's probably the worst idea I've ever heard of. Why not just play non-team vintage in that case?

[Matt]

I always liked the team formats where one player had Vintage, one Extended, and one Standard. If you redid that as Vintage/Legacy it would be neat.

[emidln]

I'm all for 1 Workshop-fueled Ubastax deck and 2 Legacy Stax decks. Go, go 8x Propaganda effects, 8-9 Trinispheres, and 12x Smokestack!

Could a format where you get 1 Vintage deck and 2 Legacy decks work? Would we see 2x Vial Goblins and 1x FCG Goblins? 3x Storm Combo? Slaver and Landstill. Slaver and Threshold? How about 1x Control Slaver and 2x Vial Goblins? Hmm, Team Eternal...

[Jacob Orlove]

The three person team format is NOT multiplayer. Your team plays three simultaneous duels against the people on the other team, and whoever wins two matches win the team match.

[emidln]

Fair enough. But would it be interesting to try a multiplayer format with 3 person teams ala Two-Headed Giant Sealed? Well, Three-headed Giant I guess, but it seems like it could be entertaining. Four player would allow for Standard, Extended, Legacy, and Vintage on each team. I'd like to try to play this anyway. Anyone near Chicago want to try Four-headed Giant Constructed Multi-format? Perhaps I should move this to another thread...

[Whatever Works]

Cant all of these problems be fixed by saying: Restricted cards do not apply. That way each player could play a type 1 deck... Then the real questions could be meaningful like... Which type 1 control deck will we play... Which player gets the FoW's... Who plays combo... What version of combo? What version of Stax??? Do we want the 3rd deck to be combo or fish? etc...

I always wanted to see a tournemnet where a player must play a different pre determined deck each round. I own cards for every deck, but alot of people wouldnt be able to manage that... and putting a deck back together inbetween rounds would suck.. Though on MWS that is pretty easy...

Kyle L

[Mr. Nightmare]

Even if it were Vintage/Legacy/Legacy, with 3HG rules or teams, there's still the 4x between the decks rule.  This means team Goblins wouldn't work, Team Stax wouldn't work, team Storm probably wouldn't work, but team Stax, Goblins, Thresh would beat face.

[jpmeyer]

Cant all of these problems be fixed by saying: Restricted cards do not apply. That way each player could play a type 1 deck... Then the real questions could be meaningful like... Which type 1 control deck will we play... Which player gets the FoW's... Who plays combo... What version of combo? What version of Stax??? Do we want the 3rd deck to be combo or fish? etc...

That's a pretty elegent solution.  You still have to make tough choices like as to who gets the Force of Will or Goblin Welder but without having one deck that will automatically win 2/3s of the time because of the fact that only one deck can have Power.

[GrandpaBelcher]

What about Vintage Emperor?

I think you put a storm combo deck at the Emperor position in the hopes that they can power through two sides of hate to Tendrils one lieutenant and the opposing emperor for the win.  But if the four-card rule still applies, what decks do you put at the lieutenant slots?  I'd say Gifts for one, but what else?  Ichorid?  Some more disruptive aggro deck like RG Hate?

Emperor is one of my favorite formats, and Vintage could break it wide open.

[Twaun007]

Team eternal and Emperor are two way different games. In emperor its 6 people in one game, while in team eternal it would just by two people per game. The time constrants in Emperor would be really wierd to hold an event while I would think in team eternal it would be like a normal timed tourney. Don't get me wrong I love playing emperor, I just don't think it would be as easy to hold as team eternal.
Plus in emperor what if the two opposing teams both had a build of stax on the table. Getting rid of two or more permanents per upkeep would get very frustrating(very situationa,l but I played in a game like that before). Chalice, Chains, In the eye of Chaos, etc..... all get really busted in Emperor.

I do like the solution of not letting the rule apply to Restricted cards. Well played.

[Komatteru]

The 'restricted rule' should only apply to a small handful of cards, not all of them.  I'd say this list would be good:
Power Moxes
Black Lotus
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Sol Ring
Lotus Petal
Chrome Mox
Grim Monolith
Mox Diamond
Lion's Eye Diamond
Tolarian Academy
Ancestral Recall
Time Walk
Yawgmoth's Will
Tinker
Demonic Tutor
Vampiric Tutor
Mystical Tutor
Imperial Seal

Those there are pretty much too important to every deck not to allow each player to have them.  This still makes it interesting in that some important cards, like Brainstorm, have to be decided.

If you don't apply it to all restricted cards, then you will just get like Long, a Drain based TPS deck, and another combo deck (Dragon, maybe) from every team.

[Machinus]

If you limit drains but not power, this format is combo decks. If you limit power but not drains, this format is a control decks. And if you limit both, it's Legacy.

Right?

[emidln]

Well, Legacy minus the combo. Because I think every combo deck in the format runs 4x LED except Solidarity.

[forests failed you]

If somebody figures out a set of rules for this and runs a tourney, let me know.  I'd love to play.

[jpmeyer]

I'm not sure about it being all about combo, because you lose out on a lot of important cards.  If you were going to make it say, Grim Long, Intuition Tendrils, and Dragon, you have a lot of overlap to worry about with cards like Brainstorm, Dark Ritual, Duress, Tendrils of Agony, Intuition, Force of Will, and the lands.  I could see combo/combo/Workshop, maybe.

[Anusien]

If you limit drains but not power, this format is combo decks. If you limit power but not drains, this format is a control decks. And if you limit both, it's Legacy.

Right?

The point is each team runs powered decks, but there are only 4 Brainstorm, 4 Dark Ritual, 4 Cabal Ritual, 4 Mana Drain.  So you couldn't put CS with Gifts or any other drain deck, and you'd only get 4 brainstorms for the entire team.

I think Ichorid would be a staple deck, because you can run it with some of the red cards (Goblin Lore, Breakthrough, et al) and that reduces the number of decks you have to split staples like Brainstorm across.  You could put together a Gifts, Stax, Ichorid team.

The thing that really interests me about this is sideboarding.  You only get one set of Chalices, one set of Null Rod, 4 total Pithing Needles, stuff like that.  People would really have to dig into the list of good hosers.

[Machinus]

If you limit drains but not power, this format is combo decks. If you limit power but not drains, this format is a control decks. And if you limit both, it's Legacy.

Right?

The point is each team runs powered decks, but there are only 4 Brainstorm, 4 Dark Ritual, 4 Cabal Ritual, 4 Mana Drain.  So you couldn't put CS with Gifts or any other drain deck, and you'd only get 4 brainstorms for the entire team.

That's one idea heard so far. It is not the only one in this thread.

If you don't limit power but do limit everything else, the environment becomes very combo friendly since there are only 1/3 as many drain decks and 1/3 as many stax decks. Every team would be something like long, dragon, X.

[forests failed you]

trying to make a bunch of silly rules that apply to restricted cards seems dumb.  The reason the standard rules are the way they are is so that everyone has to play a different type of deck.  Basically, it would probably work just to say each deck must be Vintage legal, but each team of three is limited to only four of each of the following cards split between all three decks.


Mishra's Workshop
Mana Drain
Dark Ritual
Oath of Druids
Purelace

Since those are the key cards that Vintage decks are based around.  Only allowing four of each of those cards would force each team to represent three different decks; while at the same time allowing each team to sport three decks that are all solid Vintage decks with power, and the ability to play certain staples like Brainstorm, force of will, and Goblin welder that overlap archetypes.

[SpencerForHire]

Well, Legacy minus the combo.

That is quite the redundant statement.

If you truly want to balance it you just end up making it Legacy IMO.  Legacy with a few pieces of accelerant each person.

[emidln]

trying to make a bunch of silly rules that apply to restricted cards seems dumb.  The reason the standard rules are the way they are is so that everyone has to play a different type of deck.  Basically, it would probably work just to say each deck must be Vintage legal, but each team of three is limited to only four of each of the following cards split between all three decks.

...

Purelace

Since those are the key cards that Vintage decks are based around. 

....

Wow, I knew I was a Vintage newb, but damn, how did I miss the brokenness of turning something white?

[Whatever Works]

trying to make a bunch of silly rules that apply to restricted cards seems dumb.  The reason the standard rules are the way they are is so that everyone has to play a different type of deck.  Basically, it would probably work just to say each deck must be Vintage legal, but each team of three is limited to only four of each of the following cards split between all three decks.


Mishra's Workshop
Mana Drain
Dark Ritual
Oath of Druids
Purelace

Since those are the key cards that Vintage decks are based around.  Only allowing four of each of those cards would force each team to represent three different decks; while at the same time allowing each team to sport three decks that are all solid Vintage decks with power, and the ability to play certain staples like Brainstorm, force of will, and Goblin welder that overlap archetypes.

Exactly! Its called balance!!!

Anyone who says the format would be combo dominated is just flat out wrong... there are only 4 dark rituals... 4 Brainstorm... Just because there are 4 FoW is irrelevent when 1 player will obviously be playing Stax, and then that 1 other deck not running FoW will have to be creative.

If you start playing with which restricted cards get to be played by every deck... and which dont... then your going to get problems and conflicts over specific cards...

YOU HAVE TO LET RESTRICTED CARDS = EXCEPTIONS... Otherwise you have legacy... Type 1 with risk of heavy Combo > Legacy...

Kyle L

[Twaun007]

Having the restricted cards be an exception to the rule sounds pretty good. With all the decks being able to run fully powered, teams would still have to come to terms on who gets to use brainstorms, fetch lands, dauls, welders, etc......
 
With that solution it should keep the format from being like Legacy.


It's EXCEPTION people, EXCEPTION. -Klep