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Author Topic: [Budget] Updating FCG  (Read 2012 times)
Hoeg
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« on: August 23, 2004, 09:12:46 pm »

First of all, please note that this is my first post on The Mana Drain, and thus it should be taken with a grain of salt.  I’m not especially new to type one, and I’m by no means an expert.  However, I know the basics so I thought I’d give my 2 cents on the deck I’m running.  I posted this in the budget forum because I’m, well, on a budget and would like to discuss budget versions of Food Chain Goblins.

There hasn’t been an active thread on FCG in a while, and I’ve got a few ideas I’d like to bring out.  I’ve been playing this deck for a little over a month now, though I have played red aggro for as long as I’ve played competitive magic.  I have played FCG at Dreamer’s (Minnesota) multiple times and in 4 tournaments at Gen Con.  I placed 14th (6-2) in Type 1 Champs with a build of FCG using the ideas described below, and went 6-0 in the side event later in the evening.  Up until Gen Con I would have had nothing interesting more to say about current Food Chain builds, but after playing it enough, I came to the conclusion that the combo was simply not needed.  Food Chain itself never won me a game I could not have already won.  Every time it came up, I could have simply resolved recruiter, stacked a ringleader, a warchief or two, all of my piledrivers, and any incinerators I needed to clear the board with.  If I needed, I could stack a matron to shuffle if I suspected counters, or I could have stack a lackey and Siege-Gang Commander; it doesn’t really matter.  In any case, I could then the following turn play a ringleader and possibly a warchief (depending on my current mana) and brought myself into a winning position quite easily.  If I could not do this, then Food Chain probably wouldn’t have helped me either.

Ok, I’m probably over stating this.  There are situations, probably one’s I’ve been in, where food chain would have won me the game and nothing else would have, so I wouldn’t normally question the place of Food Chain in this deck.  Really, the deck is named after this card.  However, most FCG players would tell you that the combo is not used 100% of the time.  In my experience with the deck, it is usually used at the most 25% of the time while the rest of the time you simply beat on your opponent to the win, often with a Food Chain or two sitting dead in your hand.  In addition to this, I found a card that helps the deck out tremendously and is currently doing fine as a replacement.  Currently, I run 4 main deck Blood Moon.

It has been said an uncountable number of times before that the only non-goblin card that should be run in FCG is Food Chain, but hear me out.  Blood Moon has been a great card for me in FCG.  A second or third turn resolved Blood Moon against 4cc, fish, or tog is essentially game over.  Some of the time they can find an answer to it, but that usually requires blue mana (usually followed by a wish) which is hard to come by while under a moon.  Besides, once they have answered it, you’ve probably had a few turns to build up and should be in a winning situation.  It does hurt a bit against workshop based decks because they tend to just switch over to artifact mana and beat you, but the gain against these other decks out-weighs the loss here in my opinion.  In short, a resolved Blood Moon is pretty much game against any deck not running Mishra’s Workshop.  Blood Moon does all this while making the creature base a bit more flexible and strengthening many match-ups.  It also allows you to cut green which strengthens you against the ever-increasing number of crucibles in the metagame.  In addition, since this is budget, it allows you to easily, if you aren’t already, run a full set of Ancient Tomb’s with much less fear of red mana problems because as soon as you resolve a moon, all your lands tap for red.

Now someone is going to point out that Food Chain is game against any deck at all.  This would be true if Food Chain could win you the game without recruiter.  Food Chain does essentially nothing if you don’t draw a recruiter or matron while blood moon relies on nothing to be good except your opponent to play nonbasic lands.  I’ve also discovered a great sideboard card that can help that slightly weekend workshop match up:  Kill Switch.  I’ll post the card text for those of you who need it.

Kill Switch
{3} Artifact
{2}, {T}: Tap all other artifacts. They don't untap during their controllers' untap steps as long as Kill Switch remains tapped.
Nemesis Rare

I know, I’m amazed as well that a card from Nemesis could be played in any format as well, but read that card.  It’s amazing!  I’ve actually survived a third turn Sundering Titan with this card and it hasn’t happened yet, but I’m sure that the switch could also handle tinkered colossi with ease.  An active Kill Switch just wins against artifact based decks.  There is nothing bad about your opponent never using a non-triskellion artifact again.  Also note that if they play a beats creature you can tap it before they get a chance to attack with it.

Thinking more about removing Food Chain, what do other people think of these potential changes?  I could also be completely wrong on everything said here, but my experiences say otherwise.  What are your thoughts?
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SpencerForHire
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« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2004, 09:20:49 pm »

Most players of foodchains have a solution that we find more.. adiquette againts artifact decks.
[card]Null Rod[/card]
What do you think?
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Sheik al Kaji
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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2004, 10:48:40 pm »

So, you want to make the deck lose its ability to just win first turn, to be able to race combo, and just smash everything in general?
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Hoeg
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2004, 11:55:14 pm »

Quote from: Gimbles
Most players of foodchains have a solution that we find more.. adiquette againts artifact decks.
[card]Null Rod[/card]
What do you think?


Obviously this works, and I should have mentioned it.  However, Null Rod can't stop large creatures.  If you play it early enough (which usually happens) then they may be able to eventually weld and / or tinker creatures out.  Frankly, Null Rod does work almost as well against workshop decks.  However, when the opponent rushes out fat before you can play a rod, it just isn't as appealling to me.

Quote from: Sheik al Kaji
So, you want to make the deck lose its ability to just win first turn, to be able to race combo, and just smash everything in general?


On a budget I'm not sure you can win on the first turn without 6-7 specific cards in hand (you need 6 mana along with a recruiter, ringleader, and Food Chain), and I don't think racing combo was ever on the list of things FCG can do.  FCG is an aggro deck with a combo back-up.  Full combo is generally at least 1-2 turns faster to combo out, and that's if you draw the combo pieces.  Smashing everything in general doesn't require Food Chain, it just requires lots of goblins.  This is still easy to obtain even without Food Chain by just using lackey, recruiter, and ringleader.
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Vegeta2711
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2004, 03:57:11 pm »

Actually something like turn 1 Null Rod, Turn 2 Recruiter/Food Chain, Turn 3 Recruiter/Food Chain for the win is pretty sweet. That set-up has stolen quite a few random games vs. combo. And it's certianly better than attempting to win the match off Blood Moon.

Also losing Food Chain means you can't just 'bye' your aggro matches over a third of the time. You actually have to fight it out with them and certain aggro decks are flatout better at that than you are.
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BreathWeapon
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2004, 04:59:45 pm »

There are plenty of ways to play Goblins in T1 right now. A Vintage Version of Goblin Bidding can be a lot of fun to play, and Skull Clamp would definately be a better choice than Blood Moon vs a wider field of decks.
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Hoeg
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2004, 06:24:12 pm »

Quote from: Vegeta2711
Actually something like turn 1 Null Rod, Turn 2 Recruiter/Food Chain, Turn 3 Recruiter/Food Chain for the win is pretty sweet. That set-up has stolen quite a few random games vs. combo. And it's certianly better than attempting to win the match off Blood Moon.

Also losing Food Chain means you can't just 'bye' your aggro matches over a third of the time. You actually have to fight it out with them and certain aggro decks are flatout better at that than you are.


I do agree with this.  I didn't really notice the hurt against combo simply because I probably played it only once in all of my games with FCG.  I have still been able to beat the other aggro decks, but you are right in the fact that I can't quite as well.  I only saw red green beats as far as non-FCG and non-Workshop based aggro decks went, though, and locking down their green (at least partially) still helped a lot.  I do agree that Food Chain would have been much, much better, but Blood Moon wasn't completly useless.  However, I did do much better against control, though looking again it probably isn't worth it if you play against more than no combo.

Quote from: BreathWeapon
There are plenty of ways to play Goblins in T1 right now. A Vintage Version of Goblin Bidding can be a lot of fun to play, and Skull Clamp would definately be a better choice than Blood Moon vs a wider field of decks.


I'm not sure clamp would do too well in Type 1.  Blood Moon is probably better against control because of its near-complete mana base lockdown.  Food Chain or Null Rod is certainly better against combo because Skull Clamp isn't going to slow them down or speed you up enough to make a difference.  Against aggro, Food Chain is superior because of its speed, although the clamp does give you a good draw engine late game and will still probably tilt the scales in your favor.

Really, after thinking about it more, I still think that Blood Moon is better than Food Chain against (aggro)control but that the speed boost from Food Chain is deffinately worth more against aggro and combo.
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SimpleHiker
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2004, 08:25:13 pm »

Quote from: Vegeta2711
Actually something like turn 1 Null Rod, Turn 2 Recruiter/Food Chain, Turn 3 Recruiter/Food Chain for the win is pretty sweet. That set-up has stolen quite a few random games vs. combo. And it's certianly better than attempting to win the match off Blood Moon.

Also losing Food Chain means you can't just 'bye' your aggro matches over a third of the time. You actually have to fight it out with them and certain aggro decks are flatout better at that than you are.


Doing some play-testing against current Crucible/wasteland heavy environment Food Chain is very much needed. You simply need food chain as a mana source for back up if your opponent is locking down your land.
SH
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Kaiser von Hugal
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2004, 09:35:03 pm »

I appreciate you trying to go new places with with deck - its my most competitive Type 1 deck.  The thing is - its really not all that new.  What you propose really is just MD'ing Blood Moon.  This card is a staple in my board.  I will swap food chains for BM if it will slam the opponent and just go for the beats route you propose.  I  recommend you keep the original mana base and keep some slots in your board for food chains for those aggro matchups.  I think the only room for improvement with this deck is its sideboard and which cards to take out.  I would love to see a post the goes into detail into this very thing.  I know the primer covers this - I do like your kill switch suggestion.  Against artifact decks this rocks - so does AM but that can be Beb'd
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Hoeg
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2004, 09:59:47 pm »

Quote from: SimpleHiker
Doing some play-testing against current Crucible/wasteland heavy environment Food Chain is very much needed. You simply need food chain as a mana source for back up if your opponent is locking down your land.
SH


With Blood Moon in play, wastelands = mountains.  Really, Blood Moon is probably a better back-up against strips/crucible than Food Chain is.

@Kaiser von Hugal:  Thanks for the at least partial support.  The Food Chains in the board is deffinately something to try if I'm going to keep up the Blood Moon idea.

When it comes down to it, I guess I'm just suggesting MDing Blood Moon in a heavier control metagame because it has tested better for me than Food Chain in the control matchup.  I also wanted to bring up Kill Switch because, if resolved, there is almost no way for artifact based decks to win (trike can maaaaybe win if they're really lucky, or if you sack a Lotus Petal they can weld it out).
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