[discussion] type 1 as a ptq-style format

[jpmeyer]

For a while, in Type 1 it seemed that since the format continues year-round there were often times great opportunities to work on a deck, keep it secret, and then unleash it on an unsuspecting tournament.   Now, with (in some locations) nearly weekly tournies it seems to me like Type 1 is becoming more like a PTQ-style environment rather than like a PT-style format where you only need to prepare for one big event.  When constructed PTQ seasons roll around, it usually seems like the most common way for a deck to win is for it to be "next week's deck."

The main results that prompted me to think of this were Tog, Control Slaver, and Fish.  Tog in a way was the PT deck, in that it showed up at the top, and now entering the PTQ season, was the deck to gun for, which Fish did, knocking its numbers down a peg.  However, Fish didn't see the same level of success at Worlds now that it had been in the previous few months since we've advanced a bit further in time.  It's gone from being "next week's deck" (which allowed it to win a lot) to "last week's deck."

Meanwhile, Control Slaver is a solid deck.  The closest thing it has to a nightmare match is probably some like super hateful Oshawa Stompy-type deck.  Yet, it wasn't played much and therefore was never really made into a target, and thus got to be a "next week's deck" at Worlds.

Discuss.

[Smmenen]

I simply do not agree that Control Slaver wasn't played much.

Go look at the SCG results, Control Slaver was tied for the 4th most popular deck with 9 players - as many as Tog.  Windfall played extremely well and had a WICKED SB for his roughest matchups (i.e. Fish and Stax).  

Meandeck Titan - a control slaver variant, also made waves by top 8ing at SCG.  

Is it a PTQ format?  Sort of.  But I think the only metagame shift was towards beating Fish which explains the prevalence of Workshop aggro.  I would contend that combo was a solid metagame choice if it had a plan for Trinisphere - as was my metagame mono blue deck.

Fish being hated out was critical to understanding what happened at Gencon (although one Fish deck still made top 8). The problem in terms of predicting what happens next is that the top 8 had 8 different decklists.  No single deck appeared to dominate.   The closest thing to dominating was Goblin Welder with 23 Top 8 appeareances, although in 6 vastly different strategies.

[Zherbus]

I think Control Slaver has been the most played, but underdiscussed archetype I've seen in T1 to date. As a result, people kind of forget about it until they sit down across from it and are like 'Oh yeah, THAT deck.' It's always been a solid performer, and there is numbers to prove it. I just think that people not discussing it is either an oddity or a testiment on how unflexable the main skeleton is to change. So basically, either people just aren't discussing it as much or there's not too much to talk about with regards to it.

As for your observation of Type 1 being a 'PTQ format', I think that more or less comes with the territory. A piece of power is given away at least once a week in many places AND there's always a big tournament right around the corner to gear up for.

[The Atog Lord]

Well, I've been an advocate of Control Slaver for some time  

Is there room in the deck for innovation? To a degree, there is. Meandeck's titan variant is certainly a change from the base of the deck, though I prefer the standard list myself. The changes that I've worked on for the deck lately haven't been anything ground-breaking, but rather subtle improvements, such as adding Duresses and Darksteel Citadels. Even now, I think there is some room for making the deck a bit better, and there are some gaps that I'm working to fill.

Steve, as for what you said, I don't know why, but I have seen many good players just dismiss the deck. When I first began talking about Control Slaver, I met with some rather negative reactions. I've found some sucess with it, and every time I go to a tournament there are more and more people playing the deck. Even so, at the last tournament I went to, a well-regarded player told me that the only people who play the deck are myself and my friends. To be honest, I'm not sure I can explain why the deck is "underdiscussed." Perhaps that is about to change.

[ELD]

Perhaps the deck is not discussed because of the people who are winning with it.  I know personally, when TMD trashes a deck I like, I'm thrilled.  I just go and win people aren't even prepared for it.  When good players show up with control slaver, the t8's get distorted.  Look at the Maine Lotus tournament or the Cape Cash tournament for examples.  Since adding Deep Analysis, I feel it is the best deck in the format.

[rvs]

JP : What are you trying to say? That we are getting close to a universal metagame?

[jpmeyer]

That because of the frequency of tournies with a good enough payout to attend tournies fairly regularly (rather than just say, only going to say, Waterbury,) it becomes less important to try to unleash new tech and catch everyone off guard (a PT-type environment) as it is to be ahead of the metagame (a PTQ-type metagame.)

[JACO]

That because of the frequency of tournies with a good enough payout to attend tournies fairly regularly (rather than just say, only going to say, Waterbury,) it becomes less important to try to unleash new tech and catch everyone off guard (a PT-type environment) as it is to be ahead of the metagame (a PTQ-type metagame.)

This is what we should be working towards, as this would be ideal for the growth and development of Type 1.

Imagine if there were large scale tournaments like Waterbury or Lotus tournaments once or twice a month in the Midwest and West Coast of the US, and in places like Germany, France, Italy, Japan/China/somewhereinAsia, much like it is on the eastern seaboard of the US. To me, this is exactly what the format should ideally be like.

It pains me to say it, but the East Coast truly is the 'Mecca' of Type 1 right now. I don't mean this in terms of development, per se, but I mean in regards to the frequency of large tournaments. If there were this many large tournaments on the West Coast, I'm pretty sure there would be more people joining the game out here, spurring even more development.

Basically, if the numbers were any where close to the East Coast of the US, in terms of frequency and turnout for medium to large size tourneys, it certainly would seem like a GP or PTQ type environment (which I think would be off the meat-rack, except for all of the assclowns who think they are the shit for Top 8'ing a PTQ), but I don't think we're there quite yet.

[Purple Hat]

(which I think would be off the meat-rack, except for all of the assclowns who think they are the shit for Top 8'ing a PTQ), but I don't think we're there quite yet.

Hopefully we can avoid said assclowns and still get there.  The east coast this summer has been totally amazing.  Playing in a tournament and being pissed cus only 25 people showed up and you've been at 40-50 person tournaments the last 4 weeks and are going to another one next week is incredible.  I hope Type One can get this kind of support in other parts of the country/world.

Hale

[bebe]

Well Toronto and Ontario on the whole is getting an infusion of blood with better payouts and consequently larger turnouts. Hopefully this will infuse some innovation into the scene again with better players and better decks.

It's gone from being "next week's deck" (which allowed it to win a lot) to "last week's deck."

This is as it should be. There is no universal meta game. What there is a core decks that you can expect to meet at a given tournament and the tech available to defeat these decks. It seems many players are too quick to jump on a particular bandwagon - Fish has had a tough time up here for awhile but we know we are going to face it and prepare for it. More Workshop variants and Madness builds apperared. When Landstill was the rage, Razor developed O. Stompy and was kicking ass until we caught up.

I like the PTQ mentality and think it should be nurtured.

[Milton]

Imagine if there were large scale tournaments like Waterbury or Lotus tournaments once or twice a month in the Midwest and West Coast of the US, and in places like Germany, France, Italy, Japan/China/somewhereinAsia, much like it is on the eastern seaboard of the US. To me, this is exactly what the format should ideally be like.

It pains me to say it, but the East Coast truly is the 'Mecca' of Type 1 right now. I don't mean this in terms of development, per se, but I mean in regards to the frequency of large tournaments. If there were this many large tournaments on the West Coast, I'm pretty sure there would be more people joining the game out here, spurring even more development.

In Minneapolis and the surrounding area we have had 10 power tournaments in the past three months.  Three at Dreamer's, two at Monsters Den, two in St. Cloud, one at Shinders, one in Eau Claire and one at The Source.  Two were Lotus tournaments, all allowed proxies.  We have the feeling of a PTQ environment a couple of times a month!  Most of us will be going down to Chicago in November, and I would guess that Minneapolis will represent pretty well.

Our metagame gets ignored mostly because there are no high profile TMDrs in Minneapolis, for whatever reason.  It seems, though, that we have a PTQ style event every couple of weeks.  Our environment is innovative and stable at the same time.