Razvan
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« on: August 23, 2004, 03:28:40 pm » |
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http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/226Not sure if you guys saw this, but... It was definately one of the most enjoyable reads I have ever done on the history of magic. Zak Dolan's analysis of the deck and environment rocks, especially if you realize it was done in 1994 (although some very wrong assumptions and theories are put forward).
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Insult my mother, insult my sister, insult my girlfriend... but never ever use the words "restrict" and "Workshop" in the same sentence...
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2004, 03:30:12 pm » |
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Heh. I remember reading those articles ten years ago. I still have duelist #3.
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Team Meandeck: O Lord, Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile. To those who slander me, let me give no heed. May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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Razvan
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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2004, 03:33:31 pm » |
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Heh. I remember reading those articles ten years ago. I still have duelist #3. Dude! You have to hook me up with some scans of it... or just ship it here... or just be there on Sept 25-26...  My buddy and I have Scrye #4 (somewhere)... the prices were REALLY funny. But Duelist actually was a good magazine... sorry to see it go, and have crap like Inquest still be around.
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Insult my mother, insult my sister, insult my girlfriend... but never ever use the words "restrict" and "Workshop" in the same sentence...
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LoA
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2004, 03:56:03 pm » |
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I have that laying around somewhere too, but it doesn't have prices in it. WotC used to have a policy that they wouldn't print price guides since they were worried it would impact the collector's market. If I recall correctly, around that time (or just after) Moxen were running around $60 and a Lotus was $100. In the school year following that event, I bought a Beta Time Walk for $90 (although it was in poor shape). Legends pricing was all messed up since uncommons were shipped incorrectly, forcing WotC to institute an exchange policy.
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Razvan
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2004, 03:58:39 pm » |
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Oh, I don't care about prices, I just want to read the articles on mtg. I love to read history. This one would be best. Dolan's got some pretty good ideas about the game, even though most of them are attributed to Weissman for some reason (I am not sure about the chronological events of those 2, but I think Dolan was first). I really want to write a history article on mtg, but I have no idea where to start, or how to proceed (and if someone says... start at the beginning...  ). 
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Insult my mother, insult my sister, insult my girlfriend... but never ever use the words "restrict" and "Workshop" in the same sentence...
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LoA
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2004, 07:27:43 pm » |
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Check out "Totally Unauthorized Magic: the Gathering-Advanced Players Guide" (circa 1996). Each chapter is written by a "name" in the game (Maysonet, Weissman, Justice, etc.) about a particular deck they were touting. Some of the decks are classics, like Weissman's The Deck and Maysonet's Jester's Cap deck. There's also an early Enchantress deck (running Dance of Many), a Winds of Change/UWD deck,etc. Regardless of the decklists, it's worth it to see where deckbuilding theory was at the time. Here's the Amazon link
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2004, 07:30:40 pm » |
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Check out "Totally Unauthorized Magic: the Gathering-Advanced Players Guide" (circa 1996). Each chapter is written by a "name" in the game (Maysonet, Weissman, Justice, etc.) about a particular deck they were touting. Some of the decks are classics, like Weissman's The Deck and Maysonet's Jester's Cap deck. There's also an early Enchantress deck (running Dance of Many), a Winds of Change/UWD deck,etc. Regardless of the decklists, it's worth it to see where deckbuilding theory was at the time. Here's the Amazon linkIn what is starting to become a disturbing trend, I read that way back when too, and I still own it. Some of the stuff in there is hilarious--especially the "hints" about necro.
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Team Meandeck: O Lord, Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile. To those who slander me, let me give no heed. May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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BurningIce
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2004, 09:30:34 pm » |
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I had Scrye #2 years ago, but I have no idea where it is. I just remember the Elder Dragons were worth more than Juzam... But I can't remember about much else.
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Dante
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2004, 11:54:12 pm » |
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I have two of George Baxter's books....ugh.
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dandan
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« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2004, 01:07:49 am » |
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I remember when EuroGencon figured out that decks could be broken and enforced a 5 artifact rule. A friend of mine won using a Howl from Beyond on a BoP. Decks were so good back then (he would never have beaten the 4 Sol Ring, 4 Lotus, 4 Mox Sapphire, 4 Mox Emerald, 4 Juggernaut, 4 Time Walk, 4 Ancestral Recall, 4 Timetwister, 4 Craw Wurm deck).
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2004, 03:36:06 pm » |
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Oh, I don't care about prices, I just want to read the articles on mtg. I love to read history. This one would be best. Dolan's got some pretty good ideas about the game, even though most of them are attributed to Weissman for some reason (I am not sure about the chronological events of those 2, but I think Dolan was first). I really want to write a history article on mtg, but I have no idea where to start, or how to proceed (and if someone says... start at the beginning...  ).  Not only was Dolan first with his theories, but he practically invented the archtype we call the Wiessman school. That's just the way it goes in Magic though man... It doesn't matter if you invent a deck, what you did with it, or how it wins... All that matters is who uses it to win FIRST, then suddenly the deck belongs to them. It was especially true back in that time of early Magic.
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Razvan
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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2004, 04:08:23 pm » |
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Oh, I don't care about prices, I just want to read the articles on mtg. I love to read history. This one would be best. Dolan's got some pretty good ideas about the game, even though most of them are attributed to Weissman for some reason (I am not sure about the chronological events of those 2, but I think Dolan was first). I really want to write a history article on mtg, but I have no idea where to start, or how to proceed (and if someone says... start at the beginning...  ).  Not only was Dolan first with his theories, but he practically invented the archtype we call the Wiessman school. That's just the way it goes in Magic though man... It doesn't matter if you invent a deck, what you did with it, or how it wins... All that matters is who uses it to win FIRST, then suddenly the deck belongs to them. It was especially true back in that time of early Magic. So if Dolan was first, and he won first, and everything, how come Weissman got the glory?
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Insult my mother, insult my sister, insult my girlfriend... but never ever use the words "restrict" and "Workshop" in the same sentence...
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Zherbus
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« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2004, 04:38:04 pm » |
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Because Dolan was just the first guy with a clue, Weissman turned the idea into something much more refined.
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Dante
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« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2004, 05:49:56 pm » |
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Because Dolan was just the first guy with a clue, Weissman turned the idea into something much more refined. Weissman also promoted himself, which was fairly uncommon at the time. To be fair, a bunch of people had worked on "The Deck" out on the West Coast, he just got the glory because he was vocal about it.
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LoA
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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2004, 11:11:56 pm » |
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Looking at Dolan's deck and Weissman's deck, there are a lot of differences. Weissman may have evolved from Dolan, but I think he (Weissman) is rightly remembered as the godfather of control. Zak Dolan's World Champion Deck 1 Library of Alexandria 4 Savannah 2 Strip Mine 4 Tropical Island 4 Tundra
1 Black Lotus 1 Black Vise 1 Howling Mine 1 Icy Manipulator 1 Ivory Tower 1 Mana Vault 2 Meekstone 5 Moxen 1 Sol Ring 1 Winter Orb
1 Ancestral Recall 1 Clone 1 Control Magic 1 Mana Drain 2 Old Man of the Sea 1 Recall 1 Siren's Call 2 Stasis 1 Time Elemental 1 Timetwister 1 Time Walk 1 Vesuvan Doppleganger
1 Birds of Paradise 1 Ley Druid 1 Regrowth
1 Armageddon 2 Disenchant 1 Kismet 4 Serra Angel 4 Swords to Plowshares 1 Wrath of God
Sideboard:
1 Chaos Orb 1 CoP Red 1 Copy Artifact 1 Diamond Valley 1 In the Eye of Chaos 1 Floral Spuzzem 2 Karma 1 Magical Hack 1 Powersink 1 Presence of the Master 1 Reverse Damage 1 Sleight of Mind 1 Kismet 1 Winter Blast
Weissman's The Deck pre-Ice Age 4x Mana Drain 2x Counterspell 1x Ancestral Recall 1x Time Walk 1x Timetwister 1x Braingeyser 1x Recall 1x Amnesia (Mind Twist was banned for a good chunk of time)
4x Swords to Plowshares 4x Disenchant 2x Moat 2x Serra Angel
2x Red Elemental Blast (remember the blue assuption theory?)
1x Regrowth
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Mirror Universe 1x Jayemdae Tome 2x Disrupting Scepter
4x City of Brass 4x Tundra 2x Volcanic Island 4x Island 3x Plains 7x SoLoMox 3x Strip Mine 1x Library of Alexandria
2x Divine Offering 2x Circle of Protection: Red 2x Blood Moon 1x Ivory Tower 1x Disrupting Scepter 1x Moat 2x Red Elemental Blast 1x Fireball 1x Tormod's Crypt 1x Feldon's Cane
Weissman has a few cards in there, notably the Blood Moons, that Dolan didn't have available to him at the time. Still, there was another version of The Deck that ran Mana Short in place of the Blood Moons.
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Dante
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« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2004, 09:58:30 am » |
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LOA - I wasn't comparing Weissman to Dolan, just pointing out that "The Deck" was developed by a bunch of different California players, not purely Brian W. I remember the newsgroup threads at the time, many players were posting similar decks and ideas and even in many of his own posts, Brian would mention "we" or a group, etc....
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« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2004, 03:30:44 pm » |
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I think the problem with Zaks Deck was where it was developed... A lot of people that are now recognized in the M:tG community came from the Rolla, MO area, like Zak, Mike Dove, and Matt Place to name a few. (Me, too, but that's hardly relevant.) All of our decks evolved basically because it was a time where you literally found a new card when you opened a Beta Booster. Quantity wasn't great enough for anyone to have actually collected the entire set at the time, and a lot of us found new things each week when another shipment came into the local store. It was an interesting time because since only one store in town carried the cards the owner had to put a limit on how many boosters each person was allowed to purchase. This being the case all the way into Legends... So, under these circumstances, it's easy to see why Zak had so many cards as 1-ofs in the deck. We all just got used to using only a copy or two of a given card, so you really only wanted something 4x if it was just incredibly important. Also, another factor are the rules of the time period... Given the rules as they were back then, his deck is a lot stronger then it appears now. There is a large variety among the cards in the deck, and each time it draws it plays a different game, so very few things were consistantly the same. For this reason it made his deck incredibly hard to Sideboard against, and that alone got him a few matches here and there. Rest assured that, for his time, nobody builds decks better then Zak Dolan. I remember a rather fun time playing in a tournament that I had helped Mike Dove with where we also had a 2-Headed Giant tournament, and an Emporer tournament. Zaks Team won both events where as mine came in 3rd and 5th in each. That doesn't sound too impressive on here, and in this day and age of huge tournaments, but back then having 50-60 people was massive, and we had nearly that many teams in each event, so it was quite the spectacle. His 2-Headed Giant deck was an deck that turned Verderan Enchantress into an infinite power/14 Trampling/Spirit Linked/Flying monster that swept across the board. His Emporer deck did infinite Fireballs that split to take out teams by 2s. This was when 'The Dark' was released, so most of his combos were fueled by Dark Heart of the Woods, many Forest-Dual Lands, and Fastbond. Extremely creative since the set had only been out maybe a week or two. Anyway, you also have to keep in mind that when he won the first World Champion title there weren't even newsgroups about Magic. Your metagame was as good as you got in your own hometown, and I just think that, at the time, Rolla, MO had the best one going. We had enough variety and skill at a new game like this in the area that when it came time for Zak to go for the gold, the tools he'd gotten from playing around town gave him all he needed to win at Worlds. Naturally all of these circumstances will never happen again, but it quite fun. It all seemed a bit more... Well, I don't know, pure? Everybody had thier own decks then, and there was no Swiss style crap. Single elimination 90% of the time, and if you were lucky you found a huge tournament with double elim. This kind of setting, and one where everybody plays a 'rogue' deck, creates for some pretty amazing stories. And no, I won't bore you to death with any of them. 
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