Volrath's Shapeshifter and Shared Fate

[LotusHead]

Don't worry, these are different questions.

Volrath's Shapeshifter: I am playing against an Elf deck, and I smack him down to 124 life due to two Shapeshiftered Phyrexian Dreadnaughts.  Trample Damage goes on the stack.  Can I then pitch my Phage to make that damage pwn my opponent? (I understand that both my Shapeshifters die immediately to the new Legend Rule, but...Did Phage get her kill or not?)

Shapeshifter #2: I have a Trinket Mage in my graveyard (he chumped for the cause) and I cast Shapeshifter.  Do I get to look for my cheap artifact via the CIP trigger of the Trinket Mage? (love those guys!)

Shared Fate: Two are in play.  Do both trigger when someone would draw a card? (Ie, remove the top card of opponent's library from the game) or does only one trigger (as you generally only draw one card at a time?)

Same Question, but with a few of the various "Words Of ..." enchantments instead.

Thanks in advance!

[Jujulautre]

Don't worry, these are different questions.

*breathe*  

Volrath's Shapeshifter: I am playing against an Elf deck, and I smack him down to 124 life due to two Shapeshiftered Phyrexian Dreadnaughts.  Trample Damage goes on the stack.  Can I then pitch my Phage to make that damage pwn my opponent? (I understand that both my Shapeshifters die immediately to the new Legend Rule, but...Did Phage get her kill or not?)

As you say, they immediatly die due to the legend rule; At the time damages resolve, what does damage is not Phage, no reason for it's ability to trigger, your opponent will not die

Shapeshifter #2: I have a Trinket Mage in my graveyard (he chumped for the cause) and I cast Shapeshifter.  Do I get to look for my cheap artifact via the CIP trigger of the Trinket Mage? (love those guys!)

You do so: shifter CIP, you check all the CIP trigger: there is one (the one of the trinket mage/shifter), so it triggers.

Shared Fate: Two are in play.  Do both trigger when someone would draw a card? (Ie, remove the top card of opponent's library from the game) or does only one trigger (as you generally only draw one card at a time?)

There is no trigger with shared fate, this is a replacement effect. When someone draw a card, he decides which replacement effect will affect his draw. And because there is no draw more, the second replacement effet will do nothing

Same Question, but with a few of the various "Words Of ..." enchantments instead.

Thanks in advance!

Same as before: the one who is drawing decides which replacement effet affects his/her draw.

[Limbo]

As you say, they immediatly die due to the legend rule; At the time damages resolve, what does damage is not Phage, no reason for it's ability to trigger, your opponent will not die

Lets see what crystal keep says about this:

If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures in play), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied. The effect uses the current information of a specific permanent if that permanent is still in play, or of a specific card in the stated zone; otherwise, the effect uses the last known information the object had before leaving that zone.

AND

The source of the combat damage is the creature as it currently exists, or as it most recently existed if it is no longer in play.

So the source for both shapeshifters damage will be Phage. And as the "you lose the game" tag is added to the Phage damage, your opponent will die in one hit.

[Gabethebabe]

Both of you are wrong on the Phage question.

The correct answer is: with damage on the stack you can discard Phage and because of SBE (legend rule) both Phage/VS will die immediately. The damage that enters is Black and caused by Phage (Last Known Information). However, when damages is dealt, VS/Phage is no longer in play and its deadly ability can not trigger.

[Limbo]

Oops. forgot Phage had a triggered ability. I thought Phages damage was "tagged", like workshop mana is "tagged" that it can only be used for artifacts.

[Jujulautre]

No way. The ability of Phage is a triggered ability, so it won't trigger if Phage is not in play when damages resolve.

You're right when you say that it is Phage which does damages, I'm wrong when I say "what does damage is not Phage", but there is no "you lose the game" tag: it's only a triggered ability, related to Phage, not to it's damage.

But in fact, do you really need Phage to kill when you have two noughts in play?

[Gabethebabe]

But in fact, do you really need Phage to kill when you have two noughts in play?

Normally not, but if he´s gaining 27 life every turn with Wellwishers

[Limbo]

I just read past the "when" in phages ability, which automatically turns it into a triggered ability.

[Jujulautre]

Normally not, but if he´s gaining 27 life every turn with Wellwishers

I should have think to that situation, obv  :lol:

/me slaps himself around a bit with a large comprules compendium