Fire and Ice vs. Slice and Dice

[Nevroz]

Why is it that fire and ice is chosen over slice and dice in most decks? Is the pitchability to FoW the key reason?

It seems to me that slice and dice is much better most of the time. Its near uncounterability cannot be ignored, given that fish and control-slaver are the prime targets for that type of effect currently. Reading Rich Shay's waterbury report, Lava Dart was often key as a 2-shot attempt on a counter-protected weenie.

Additionally, slice and dice will always net card advantage (1 for 0), while fire very often seems to go 1-for-1. And, of course, slice and dice has a chance of doing much better than 1 for 0.

So, what am I missing? Is pitchability to FoW worth giving up uncounterability and card advantage? Is the ability to go to the dome with fire worth more than I value it?

-Nevroz

[Ric_Flair]

The lesson here is one that is broadly applicable in life.  Often times things that are vastly superior are not simply outclassing the competition but beating the competition in many small ways.  So for example lets look at some of the features of each card:

Fire/Ice is easier to cast, as it can be played with U or R mana, Slice and Dice requires R. Fire/Ice is pitchable, which is huge in a format based on Force of Will. It is better in the mirror, not wiping out your guys too.
It can go to the dome.  Fire/Ice can also tap something, which while not the most useful thing in the world is rarely, but sometimes better than burn spells.  Finally Fire/Ice is always cheaper than Slice and Dice, even when cycling.  Slice and Dice has only two real advantages: uncounterability when cycled and its "real" effect, though with Mana Drain in the format and no real targets (E. Angel has a toughness of 5) its not good at all.

In sum, while some of these are not a big deal, and those that are important are only mariginally better in the case of Fire/Ice the COMBINATION of all those effects makes Fire/Ice far superior.  One of the ways to thing about this is what Stephen Jay Gould said about monkey v. human brains.  He said, basically, that sometime in the future we will find that the human brain is just marginally different than the monkey brain is a bunch of little ways, but when you add all those small advantages up you get a far superior organ.  In other words it is not sufficient to add up the advantages, sometimes they work off each other and multiple the power of a card.  

This is why Fire/Ice is better than Slice and Dice.

[leviat]

Yeah... what he said!

As Carl can attest, the ability to Ice can be just as important as it's Fire ability because against certain decks like Tog and Mask, it can offer you that crucial extra turn.

[dskippy0]

Fire can kill a face down Angel where Slice and Dice cannot. Sorry my lesson is not as applicable in the rest of your life a Ric Flare's is.

-mike

[Mark_Story]

I think another reason fire/Ice is used over slice and dice, is that it is so flexible. Like ric flair said,  Fire/Ice are easier to cast, are pitchable and so forth.  I think the flexibility to tap things is a big reason fire/ice is used over slice and dice.  Tapping the trinisphere down EOT so you can cast spells unhindered is an important effect.  One also has to tak into consideration that slice and dice slices your welders as well as theirs.  Furthermore, slicing your team of fishmen in order to take down a welder, aint so hot.  

So I feel it all comes down to flexibility combined with power, not just power in some cases

[breseboy]

Fire and Ice is good because it owns exalted, and because, don't laugh, the Ice part is sometimes used.  tapping + drawing = good

[Hi-Val]

Let's not kid ourselves that the reason we run Fire is to kill Exalteds. Nobody plays 4cc anymore.

The reason to run Fire over Slice is that Fire costs 1 less. With Fish getting out of the metagame, the need for board sweepers is marginalized. We must ask ourselves now whether paying another mana to deal with a Goblin Welder is essential, EVEN if it gives us a card. The answer is almost always a resounding "No", because the extra mana cost can be the difference between an slaver lock and a dead goblin.

Wishability also figures in at points, as does FOW pitchability, but it is first and foremost the mana cost difference.

[Mixing Mike]

I found Slice and Dice was the shit against 1/1 Decree tokens, but once Keeper dropped the count of them it stopped being worthwile to play.

[Tristal]

If you think the reason Fire is good is because it kills 2 toughness creatures, perhaps you should look into Pyroclasm.

[Jacob Orlove]

Fire can kill a face down Angel where Slice and Dice cannot. Sorry my lesson is not as applicable in the rest of your life a Ric Flare's is.

-mike

This thread was almost two months old before your post (which is also basically spam) revived it. You get a Verbal Warning, and the thread gets closed.