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Author Topic: Question about priority, the stack, and mana abilities  (Read 2038 times)
Harlequin
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« on: December 22, 2004, 01:09:59 am »

This happened to me at a recent tourny, and i had the judge called over because the stack resolution was vauge.  I had one black mana (untaped bayou) open, and in hand i had: dark ritual, tainted pact, and vampiric tutor.  It was the begining of my opponents end step.  My opponent had nothing to do.
when i first had priority, i tapped bayou for black mana and declaired dark ritual.  
Then i asked if it resolved (possibly a mistake)
He had no reponse so I had BBB in my pool
When he had no response, I cast Tainted Pact (1B)
In reponse to my Own Tainted Pact, I cast Vamp tutor (B - so my pool is empty)
Then I Passed Priority.
The stack resolves Vamp tutor - search for a card and put ontop, Then Tainted Pact - I reveal the searched card, and choose it to go in hand.

My opponent thinks for a second and calls the judge.  He argues that because i Asked "Does Ritual Resolve?" when ritual was the only spell on the stack that when he said "Yes ritual resolves" that i get BBB and the phase ends immediatly (thus i burn for 3) becasue the stack is now empty.  The judge ruled in my favor, and i got the card i searched for in hand... but he did not explain why (and in intrest of time, i didnt ask).  I just want to get the nuts and bolts about how and why i was right.  Should i not have asked if ritual resolved?  and if so... how can i cast spells with mana that isnt yet in my pool.  And if I am right... is there something special about ritual that makes the stack rules differnt?  I think for a while "mana abilities" did not use the stack... but i dont know.  my gut says that i should be able to play those cards in my opponents endstep, but im unclear about how i should declair my actions?

Moved to Rules Forum. All future rules-related questions should be posted here.

Hyperion
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Komatteru
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2004, 01:49:42 am »

Well, Ritual has to resolve before you get the mana.  Ritual is a spell that uses the stack and can be countered like any other spell.  There's nothing special about it.  Now that that's out of the way, a phase ends only when the stack is empty and both players pass in succession.  While Ritual is on the stack, the phase cannot end, naturally.  On your opponent's end step, if your opponent passes to you, then you can cast your spell.  Then, after that, you have still priority (since you have not explicitly given it back yet), so you can respond to your own spell if you want.  By asking if your spell resolves, you're indicating that you don't want to respond to your Dark Ritual, and asking your opponent if he has a response for it.  Once he declines, then Dark Ritual resolves and the stack is empty.  Since your opponent is the active player, he gets priority back, and then he passes it back to you.  Now you can play another spell, and the process is repreated until you both pass in succession with the stack empty, at which point the phase ends.

You were perfectly clear in what you did.  If you want to be even more explicit, you can ask "Do you wish to pass priority to me?" instead.  Then there can be absolutely no confusion whatsoever.  If your opponent calls a judge over in that case, then he will always rule in your favor, since there is no doubt about your or your opponent's actions (remember that intention does not matter, and if you use the correct terms, you always come out on top).
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Harlequin
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2004, 03:01:02 am »

I see... thats what i thought

Outa curiosity... is there (or was there) ever a rule that said phases ended imidiately when the stack was empty (phases like: declair blockers or combat damage step?  Or am I totally dreaming that rule up?


-- Aslo sorry about posting in the wrong forum... my bad.
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Toad
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2004, 05:17:52 am »

A step ends when both players pass priority in a row with an empty stack. That's the only way to end a step.

Your rule can't exist because when you enter a step or a phase, the stack is empty Wink
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Jujulautre
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2004, 05:35:29 am »

Quote from: Toad
A step ends when both players pass priority in a row with an empty stack. That's the only way to end a step.

Your rule can't exist because when you enter a step or a phase, the stack is empty Wink


Ok I begin. step ends 'cause stack is empty. Draw step: same. First main phase: same. Combat phase: don't speak of that. Second main: ......

Endless Loop

Game ends in a draw

We play the second game? Wink
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Freelancer
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« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2004, 09:28:04 am »

@jujulautre he obviously meant that a steps ends when the stack is empty and both players pass prority...Wink
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