Libraries

[Dr. Sylvan]

TMD Metabrain, lately I have been reading some pieces by real professional librarians about the profession and trying to brainstorm different purposes that libraries of the future will have. I'd love to get some ideas and thoughts from you guys, as a population of technology- and web-savvy people from all over the developed world. Here's some questions I've been contemplating, and feel free to only answer some of them or take it in a different direction.

(1) What kinds of library(ies) do you have access to (based on proximity, enrollment, or employment)?
(2) How much do you use your library? What do you use it for?
(3) How else do you search for information? What kinds of problems do those methods have?
(4) What is your perception of libraries and/or librarians?
(5) How long do you think print collections will be a important to maintain? (As circulating collections and physical books for reference, not just a few things in museums.) Do you see a reason why e-books shouldn't be expected to become the new standard?
(6) What do you think your library should do more of, from a user perspective? Less of?

I look forward to any thoughts you guys have.

[Jacob Orlove]

I have access to the Brandeis main and science libraries here at Brandeis, and I'm literally half a block from the Yolo County library back in Davis. I don't use the Brandeis libraries much, but when I'm doing research, they're invaluable. The sheer volume of information within those books and journals is staggering.

As for the Davis library, I usually go there every few days while I'm on break. I generally finish a book every day or two unless I'm seriously busy with something. That's purely recreational reading, but it'd be at least twenty times less enjoyable if I had to sit in front of a computer instead of under a tree or on the couch.

If I'm looking for news, my offline sources are the New York Times and The Economist. I don't check the news much online, but when I do, I usually check a bunch of sites. For research, the Brandeis libraries have some great search tools to find online articles and papers. The only other information I look for on a regular basis is Magic stuff, and I have TMD, SCG, etc, for that.

Libraries are totally awesome, as are librarians.

Print collections seem like a great system to me. E-books would reduce transportation and time issues, but they're really a lot less accessible. If I'm trying to write a paper and I'm using half a dozen books/articles for one section, I don't want to have to flip from window to window. Having all the books in front of me is just much more convenient. Also, see my earlier note about recreational reading away from the computer. And, especially for recreational reading, it's nice to be able to put a book down and just pick it up whenever. If we want more kids reading more, then e-books are not the way to go, imo.

The Yolo library has a fairly antiquated search system--I generally get better results by physically looking at all the books than I can get by trying to see what they have with ther computer system.

I'd like it if the Brandeis libraries were open a bit earlier, so I could go before class (not a huge issue, but there have been times where it was an inconvenience).

[rvs]

Answers:

(1)Local city library, university libraries.
(2)Not much at all actually. I sometimes use it together with my project team-mates to force everybody to actually work at it - It's also acceptable for research on theory and topics I study about.
(3)I can set up a VPN to my library from anywhere, and get the info that way. Most papers are posted as PDF's anyway, so I would only need to actually go there if I needed an actual book. Which are also usually pretty easy to find on google, or at least the parts I would care about (summaries etc). The only problem is that, reading off your screen for a whole day hurts your eyes, while going to the library and reading the book is less painful, and you're more likely to run into familiar people to have random chats with, and check out the hot chicks.
(4)I find them pretty useless, but my opinion might change when I'm writing my Bachelor thesis next semester :p
(5)I see no particular reason why e-books shouldn't be the next new thing. I'm actually disappointed they aren't widely accepted and used already, like with papers (or at least in the Netherlands)
(6)More of post content of books online. Less of annoying rules. Fortunately, once you loan a book, you can extend it for up to like 44 days or somethign through the internet, until you actually have to go back to have it extended again (you actually can't, but if you ask nicely, it's usually not a big problem (unless someone reserved the book!).

Hope that's of use to you Dr Sillyvan.

[Eastman]

(1) What kinds of library(ies) do you have access to (based on proximity, enrollment, or employment)?

The W.E.B. Dubois library here at Umass is ridiculous. It's 26 stories of love and learning. It's the only library I need.
(I often do access its resources over the internet)

(2) How much do you use your library? What do you use it for?
several times a week. To do research, study, and pick up readings.

(3) How else do you search for information? What kinds of problems do those methods have?\
The library has an extensive network of database subscriptions. They're spending nearly 30 million a year on it. It's the best way to search for information since book stacks.

(4) What is your perception of libraries and/or librarians?
helpful

(5) How long do you think print collections will be a important to maintain? (As circulating collections and physical books for reference, not just a few things in museums.) Do you see a reason why e-books shouldn't be expected to become the new standard?
I expect print collections will be important to maintain indefinitely


(6) What do you think your library should do more of, from a user perspective? Less of?
It's currently undergoing renovations, so that's a pain.

[Methuselahn]

(5) How long do you think print collections will be a important to maintain? (As circulating collections and physical books for reference, not just a few things in museums.) Do you see a reason why e-books shouldn't be expected to become the new standard?

I would think printed materials will always be needed.  Using my place of employment as an example, we have numerous manuals and material safety data sheets.  These types of things need to be readily available not only in case of emergencies (no power) but able to look up information without having to search for 47 letter biochemical materials by typing.  

This isn't exactly a 'library'  but just an example to emphasize convenience.

besides, to quote Orlove, "Libraries are totally awesome, as are librarians."     <3.

[Dr. Sylvan]

I would think printed materials will always be needed.  Using my place of employment as an example, we have numerous manuals and material safety data sheets.  These types of things need to be readily available not only in case of emergencies (no power) but able to look up information without having to search for 47 letter biochemical materials by typing.

Now that's an angle I hadn't considered before.

This isn't exactly a 'library'  but just an example to emphasize convenience.

Actually, I left open "place of employment" as a way people might have access to a library because there are corporate libraries, as well as records management departments, which are somewhat similar AFAIU.

These are interesting perspectives. I work for three different crews of the UIUC Main Library, so I see a lot of the internal stuff now, but I know that before I started working here I had never been inside it, and much preferred doing research on Google or in books I personally owned. It's good to know more responsible students use the library more than that.

[thorme]

(1) What kinds of library(ies) do you have access to (based on proximity, enrollment, or employment)?
(2) How much do you use your library? What do you use it for?
(3) How else do you search for information? What kinds of problems do those methods have?
(4) What is your perception of libraries and/or librarians?
(5) How long do you think print collections will be a important to maintain? (As circulating collections and physical books for reference, not just a few things in museums.) Do you see a reason why e-books shouldn't be expected to become the new standard?
(6) What do you think your library should do more of, from a user perspective? Less of?

1.  Public Library, Technology Library at work

2.  Never.  Used the college library years ago while I was enrolled - but haven't been to a brick-and-mortar library since graduating.

3.  Electronically.  Only issue I experience is when information hasn't yet been put into electronic format.

4.  My opinion on libraries is that they are in need of major changing at best - and are obsolete at worst.  No opinion on librarians.

5.  As Eastman said, I believe that printed matrial will always be around.  I cannot imagine eBooks not becoming a standard - at least once they improve the usability.

6.  My guess is that libraries will have to move almost totally online.  The physical buildings will likely morph into something akin to internet cafes.

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

The library here at MSU is pretty tight.  I don't use the library there much because here I can log onto the library website and input what books I need and they found, checked out, and delivered to your dorm at certain times a day (7AM 12pm 4pm 9pm).  The majority of the library resources are on the computer or they are stashed away and archives, so you have to request materials to be delivered to you.

[rvs]

The library here at MSU is pretty tight.  I don't use the library there much because here I can log onto the library website and input what books I need and they found, checked out, and delivered to your dorm at certain times a day (7AM 12pm 4pm 9pm).  The majority of the library resources are on the computer or they are stashed away and archives, so you have to request materials to be delivered to you.

Um... when did you guys learn how to read?!  

[Bram]

(1) What kinds of library(ies) do you have access to (based on proximity, enrollment, or employment)?

- The university libraries (every faculty has its own one, and every student can access them all).
- the ECN library (at my internship. sadly, they 'budgetted away' the central library and destroyed coutless books The best ones went to the department pibraries and some went to individuals where they can be located through a computer reference system).
- all online libraries my university is associated with.
- my personal library.
- the public/community library.

(2) How much do you use your library? What do you use it for?

A lot. Mostly for research. Some research into stuff I actually need to do, other research into stuff I just wanna know. IWhen I was young, I used to use ot for, you know, literature and fiction, but now I a. tend to read those soemwhat less in favor if scientific texts, and b. what literature I want to read, I tend to buy nowadays.

(3) How else do you search for information? What kinds of problems do those methods have?

Associative searching through Google. It really is the most effective method. The problem is referencing to the information located on the internet in your, say, report. The really are are no effective methods of ascertaining anyone who reads my report can ever access said information (or even locate it) again. I have some ideas on that which we might need to discuss at some point.

(4) What is your perception of libraries and/or librarians?

Libraries are the cool. They remind me of ancient times and have an air of knowledge about them. I stand in awe of so much information. I'm serious here, by the way. Libraries represent the best mankind has produced much more than, say, the intternet, which merely represents 'a lot of stuff' mankind produced. Concerning librarians: since the Dutch word is very different (bibliothecaris) I am always reminded of the first time I ever heard the word in some Weird Al movie: ''Conan the Librarian". On a more relevant note: I think the general public misunderstands what it means to be a (real) librarian, mostly because they only know those dusty women who just sit there collecting your overdue fees.

(5) How long do you think print collections will be a important to maintain? (As circulating collections and physical books for reference, not just a few things in museums.) Do you see a reason why e-books shouldn't be expected to become the new standard?
I think it's important to maintain them, always. Regardless of the costs. If e-books ever become the new standard, I'll off myself. My internship company recently decided to cut costs by eliminating its central library and actually destroying texts. They also 'outlawed' hardcopy versions of reports an resorted to .pdf. I hope there's a huge electomagnetic pulse over there and they lose everything. E-books are cumbersome to read, and also not cool to own. I look a book on my shelf, not a CF card.

(6) What do you think your library should do more of, from a user perspective? Less of?

Regarding my community library: it should do more of keeping the collection up to date amd improve electronic searching for physical texts, and it should do less of pleasing the public by also haveinf a CD collection and a DVD collection and an Internet cafe. Fuck that. More funds to community libraries!

[thorme]

Regarding my community library: ... it should do less of pleasing the public

Interesting opinion.  Should they implement this policy, it will certainly hasten the impending demise of traditional public libraries.

[Bram]

Well, that's why I think they should be subsidized more heavily.

And everyone knows that 'borrowing CDs' is like' saying 'I'ma copy these' anyway. It's a library, for crying out loud. Liber...as in 'book'. I mean, yeah, it's probably also a finacially sound idea to exploit a brothel in there. Why don't we do that, too? That has almost as much to do with books as DVD's and hotmail does...

[Sylvester]

1. I only use U of Montreal's libraries. Since it's so **** large, I have yet to find the Math or CS libraries.

2. I haven't needed to use books in the library so far, so I mostly use it to do research, print documents and when I need a calm and quiet place.

3. scholar.google.com, citeseer, medline, etc. Electronic methods are often more efficient at finding what you're looking for, but the physical part of searching for books at a library can't be faked. There's something about touching books, index cards, etc. that I feel helps me think better and connect information together. The fact that books are sorted according to an order I might not have thought of sometimes helps me find new aspects to research.

4. Useful and useful. The day we lose our libraries is the day we'll begin to myopically live in the present.

5. EBooks might be a good way to exchange information, but there will always be something amiss without the texture, turning pages, etc. I own a Tablet PC and use it every day to take notes, etc. It's extremely convenient. However, when I had to study for my finals, I switched to real paper&pen: the texture actually brings me a sort of satisfaction and feels better. There's also the problem of the viewing angle and battery life, but that is getting better, especially with epaper.

6. More seminal and historically important works. Less fluff.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Well, that's why I think they should be subsidized more heavily.

And everyone knows that 'borrowing CDs' is like' saying 'I'ma copy these' anyway. It's a library, for crying out loud. Liber...as in 'book'. I mean, yeah, it's probably also a finacially sound idea to exploit a brothel in there. Why don't we do that, too? That has almost as much to do with books as DVD's and hotmail does...

I actually disagree. It's important not to neglect new forms of information representation, so I wouldn't regard it as offensive for libraries to maintain a collection of some popular DVDs as long as there's also nonfiction like documentaries, just like print collections should have academically-inclined monographs even if the demand is higher for mass market paperbacks. Apparently, there used to be controversy in the librarian profession about fiction ruining libraries, but now that's silly, and I think this is kinda the same thing. I think libraries have room for pretty much all kinds of knowledge. (I helped an undergrad here find copies of Cosmopolitan and Seventeen from parts of the last half-century for a linguistics project; who knows what's going to have value in the future?)

The thing about suggesting that libraries get more funding is that money has to show results, at least in America (maybe not in Dutchieland :P ), so the key is to justify the investment in a physical building and in maintaining the collection and staff---all expensive. It's comparatively easy to ask for money for a school because every kid needs to learn, and few are autodidactic. Libraries serve the opposite strategy: they cater to the part of the population which operates with intellectual independence---the readers, the writers, the researchers. So while (in some form) there needs to be a local school, there may not be a critical mass of intellectuals to necessitate libraries in every town. Consider how unquestioned the need for the Library of Congress is compared to David's questioning of local public libraries' future.

I can't even remember where I read this, but apparently there is a whole group of people that use big-chain bookstores as their equivalent of a library for newly released books. People will buy books and then return them a week or two later after reading them. I am really curious whether the companies actively discourage this, and whether they still make money on the margin for these customers based on their decisions to keep some percent of their purchases, and on the investment value of holding their money for a few weeks. Talking with my high school history professor about academic publishing a couple of weeks ago, he seemed to think academic journals would go all-electronic or just print ceremonial/archival copies, because that would eliminate tons of work/costs for them. He seemed to think highly-scholarly monographs (books) would also tend to electronic circulation, to be printed on demand, with some ceremonial copies for the authors and their institution(s). There are also online pages with 20,000 public domain books and rising. So the niche of a local library is evaporating from almost every angle.

It's things like those which indicate to me that local libraries have to shift gears to continue existing. Integrating their purpose with other, higher-priority municipal functions seems like the best way. For instance, merging purpose and resources with community colleges or school districts, or using librarian expertise at data organization to run the town's/city's local government records, with an incidental access to research resources that officials need to formulate policy. (By far the largest local budget item for most municipalities is education, so presumably the school board would have substantial needs in this area.)

Oh man, I so want to write more, but I also definitely have a PoliSci paper due tomorrow by noon that I haven't started.

[Magi]

(1) What kinds of library(ies) do you have access to (based on proximity, enrollment, or employment)?

I have access to numerous libraries. There is a library at my college. By extension, being a college student allows me access to any university library or any library in an educational institute in B.C. (I never knew that until I had to pull some journals from the Justice Institute this term). Then there are the main libraries. They are all in the same "system", so you can return a book in one city if it's due in a library in another city. The city I live in has 1 local library, fairly large. The city right beside us has about 5 libraries, with the largest one being right beside the mega shopping complex, and finally the actual city of Vancouver has around 5 as well, with the largest being in downtown. The Downtown one is not only the biggest, but it is beautifully built as well. The first time I went in there, I ended up taking pictures of the building's interior. Not only that, I found other people doing the same thing as well! A skilled photographer would have a field day in there.
 

(2) How much do you use your library? What do you use it for?

During schooltime I'm in the college library everyday, studying, reading, sleeping, using their computers, or just chilling with my schoolmates. I usually don't go to any other libraries unless I need to, as my college library has pretty much everything I need. I do reserve new books for take-out though from my local library, but then I just drop in, pick it up, and drop it off when I'm done.

(3) How else do you search for information? What kinds of problems do those methods have?

Google, and Google. I also use Databases which have scans or summaries of most periodical journals and stuff. Some professors don't allow "Googling" because it's really easy to cheat this way. In regards to the databases, sometimes the journal in question isn't available online, so it tells you which library or institution the journal is located and it's a pain having to drive there and stuff.

(4) What is your perception of libraries and/or librarians?

Libraries in general rock, especially the big massive ones with tons of people inside them. I hate those little dinky libraries with only an armful of books, I guess it has a lot to do with their general atmosphere.

Librarians are...well...librarians. They serve a purpose, but they aren't super special or anything. Just like everyone else out there, some are assholes and some are nice.

(5) How long do you think print collections will be a important to maintain? (As circulating collections and physical books for reference, not just a few things in museums.) Do you see a reason why e-books shouldn't be expected to become the new standard?

I guess print collections will be important to maintain for historical significance or novelty, but I like Thorme's idea of morphing a library into one giant net cafe. I think as more and more people get "computerized", those will just be more efficient and easier to maintain. At this point in time though I feel there are just too many regular library users who are uncomfortable with computers.

(6) What do you think your library should do more of, from a user perspective? Less of?

The current library system is fairly well run, especially the way lots of libraries are "connected" in some way, and they allow borrowing between people in different areas and stuff. I'm not sure what can be done to make them better, except maybe slowly start integrating a more computerized system.

[Bram]

Apparently, there used to be controversy in the librarian profession about fiction ruining libraries, but now that's silly, and I think this is kinda the same thing.

Call me conservative, but I kinda even agree with that. I think hoarding fiction is a fringe activity at best. But yeah, at least they're books (and maybe even some of them are good). I agree that such information should be stored also, just not in libraries. Libraries are for books. You wanna store infinite teen mags: don't waste the tax payer's money on that. Ofcourse there may well be some use one day, but it's a. not likely, and b. gets in the way of storing actually useful stuff.

I helped an undergrad here find copies of Cosmopolitan and Seventeen (...)

Before any other Dutchies jump on this: Seventeen is a popular teen mag in the USA (like Hitkrant over here). For the rest of you: Seventeen is a hardcore porn mag in the Netherlands

The thing about suggesting that libraries get more funding is that money has to show results, at least in America (maybe not in Dutchieland ),

No results are required per se, just a consensus that it serves some greater purpose. And I can't see the greater purpose in seeing hordes of school kids come on just to MSN for half an hour and leave. Stop buying computers, dammit, and start updating your collection. And why should a library have DVD's? There's video stores for that. Libraries do not exist for my entertainment; they exist for storing and researching the sum of human knowledge, and it should also be about choices (because of an inherently limited budget). While three-year-old issue of Rolling Stone may actually find some future use, I doubt anyone would disagree that it doesn't represent the same intellection standard as, say, the collected works of Ovidius. I mentioned the latter, because my gf couldn't find those in our damn community library (while I'm sure they had them several years back, as I read them). Oh well, guess she needs to read some Harry Potter books and watch Spiderman 2 instead :-/

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

Before any other Dutchies jump on this: Seventeen is a popular teen mag in the USA (like Hitkrant over here). For the rest of you: Seventeen is a hardcore porn mag in the Netherlands  

I bet that all they do is switch the cover, =)

[Britanny]

i prefer Nietzch.

[Sylvester]

e

(yes, that is my message, **** phpBB)