No Drain Gat

[the boogie man]

My question is this: Does Mana Drain reeally have a spot in Gat? With such an aggressive deck, the mana curve is pretty low, and it is also pretty color heavy, and I often find myself burning for a lot, especially against control and workshop. Is it viable to run a different configuration of counters to accomodate the mana curve?

here is my original decklist:

creatures:6
4 quirion dryad
2 psychatog

power:5
mox jet, emerald, and saphire
black lotus
mana crypt

lands:16
4 polluted delta
1 flooded strand
3 tropical island
2 underground sea
2 swamp
3 island
1 strip mine

disruption:11
4 force of will
4 mana drain
1 daze
2 duress
1 naturalize

draw:17
4 nights whisper
4 brainstorm
1 gush
1 demonic tutor
1 mystical tutor
1 merchant scroll
1 ancestral recall
3 cunning wish
1 demonic consultation

utility:4
1 yawgmoths wil
1 time walk
1 fastbond
1 crucible of worlds

sideboard:15
1 berserk
1 naturalize
1 oxidize
2 ground seal
1 ebony charm
1 diabolical edict
2 energy flux
1 hurkyls recall
1 echoing truth
1 stifle
1 misdirection
2 hydroblast

I'm sure that most people are familiar with the deck, so I will try and keep this short.

The nights whisper draw engine is superior to the accumualted knowledge one because until the fourth accumulted knowledge is cast, they are at least at par , and usually behind, the whispers. the loss of life is annoying, but these cannot be REBed either, and grave yard hate doesn't slaughter it. Not to mention that this deck doesn't run intuition, so there is no super burst of cards.

The fastbond is going, but Im torn between pernicious deed and and another smiley.

The main point of this, though, is whether or not to leave the drains out. if I was to leave the drains out, I could rconfigure the deck like so:
-4 mana drains
+3 mana leak
+1 daze
some pluses to this is that I could fetch a basic swamp for a first turn duress, then a basic island second turn and have mana leak mana up. But I would lose the ability to play a super crucible off drain or play multiple dryads with two lands out, but I will also burn a lot less.

I am also thinking about cutting the mana crypt and adding a mox ruby to confuse everyone and take less mana burn. and crypt damage. And any thoughts on whether I could put old man of the sea/null rod in the side?

Also do you guys have any other suggstions for my deck? no mind twists!!!!

Thanks for reading this ridiculously long post and please help me out.

[JugOn]

My prefer option is NOT run mana drains cause it burns you in many cases, since you not run Intuition+AK draw engine or mind twist. Instead, a good option are counterspells (obviously): i don't like mana leak and if you have problems to have UU open in your meta, the best option is Daze, cause works well with dryads, and if you plays first, helps a lot against some treats of Shop decks like 3sphere or crucible. Test it and forgive my English. Byez

[the boogie man]

I have ben finding that the drains do hurt a lot, but what is wrong with the mana leak? They can be played turn 1 witha mox, and 3 is a lot of mana to be paying. the thing is that with mana being so tight in so many decks, 3 is way too much to be paying to let a (insert something) resolve.

[VGB]

Every time I see a deck with 4 x FoW and 4 x Drain, I am expecting to see a control deck or combo control at the least.

GaT with 4 x Gush could use Drains, as it had more places to dump the colorless mana (namely Gush).  In GaT's current configuration, there really is no sink for Drain mana.

My suggestion is to drop the control route, and for disruption run some combination of FoW, Duress, and possibly Misdirection.

Cunning Wish may offer flexibility, but I think it is too slow, not only for the current general meta, but for this deck.  Either run some maindeck answers, or focus more on what this deck is trying to accomplish, which is plop a threat and pump the bejeesus out of it with what minimal disruption necessary to make it go all the way.

The deck also needs more cantrips, such as Serum Visions (or whatever), to help find Dryads quickly and pump them cheaply.

The lone Strip, Fastbond, and Crucible are quite random.  Strip I can understand, as it is great utility, provides mana, and has synergy with Tog, but Fastbond and Crucible simply don't jibe with enough of the deck to warrant their inclusion.

[Flopmeister]

Have you tested Misdirection yet? It seems like a very good addition as a psuedo - counter and worked well for me during testing. I also used my Cunning Wish in the MD to wish for Snuff Out. The Mana Leak and Daze configuration sounds very appealing to me, although i have more affection with Mana Leak accompanied with Misdirection. Misdirecting a Bolt to protect your Quirion Dryad is really nice. Also, Misdirecting an Ancestral is a real blow in the face for your opponent.

[the boogie man]

I just might cut the crucible. Thank you.

The only thing is that misddirections are not as good in this meta. Noone really plays bolts and fire/ice cannot be misd because it can choose two targets. Ancestral is nice though. Fastbond is going, and cunning wish is my catch-all game one, but usually a lot of them go out game two.

   what do you guys suggest for the extra can trip, is serum visions the best inclusion? or is the misdirection the best?

[VGB]

what do you guys suggest for the extra can trip, is serum visions the best inclusion? or is the misdirection the best?

Misdirection really only sucks against decks with Trinisphere or that don't play Ancestral right now.  Make of that what you will.

As for "best cantrip", you can break it down like this:

The list of 1 mana sorcery speed cantrips (nongreen, obv.):
Serum Visions
Sleight of Hand
Portent

The list of 1 mana instant speed cantrips:
Opt
Cremate
Mental Note
Disrupt
Obsessive Search
Whispers of the Muse
Leap
Shadow Rift
Peek
Ray of Erasure
Reach Through Mists
Sapphire Charm

Non-cantrips for 1 mana:
Careful Study
Annul
Unearth

Free spells:
Daze
Foil
Thwart
Misdirection
Snuff Out
Contagion

[the boogie man]

thing is that I need something that will help the deck. would a maindeck smother or snuff out be any good? I mean that it is a free out against welder, but is one enough, and is it worth it?

   or is serum visiond a better choice because it smoothes out the mana and draws as well as not generating card disadvantage? or should something else be cut for a serum visions? or shoulld I just leave it out?

   Another question is cremate. is that enough utility game 1 against a good amount of decks? th draw is nice, but its hard to cast on turn 1 with one land.

   Can anyone help me with this?

[Fominian]

thing is that I need something that will help the deck. would a maindeck smother or snuff out be any good? I mean that it is a free out against welder, but is one enough, and is it worth it?

Although Snuff Out has the alternate casting, Smother works just as well and can be cast no matter the situation (the 3B or 4 life can be a detriment at times).  And yes both would work in many situations - but is it worth it?  In my opinion - nope.  It is definitely worth a SB consideration, however as a main deck option it is not something you always want.

  or is serum visiond a better choice because it smoothes out the mana and draws as well as not generating card disadvantage? or should something else be cut for a serum visions? or shoulld I just leave it out?

The main problem with vision is that its a sorcery...  You cannot cast it in response, or end of turn.  Though it is a nice draw, I personally would not stray into this territory (if you want scry - Tel-Jilad is a nice solution, given the meta.).  I however would stray away for sorcery draw, and stick to an instant speed for the flexibility of them.

  Another question is cremate. is that enough utility game 1 against a good amount of decks? th draw is nice, but its hard to cast on turn 1 with one land.

Okay, it is not a bad solution to many of the current decks in the present meta - and would make a fine SB option - but MD?  Well it would work, but against some decks it would just read:

Cremate - 0
Instant
Do nothing.
Cycling B.

I would personally stick with CPurge and ECharm if you want a B cc instant grave hate.  Though you want to hate graves - Ground Seal and Planar Void are just to fun.

[the boogie man]

How abou these:

grip of amnesia
Mystic remora
Phyrexian furnace
Trade routes
Impulse

   I like the grip of amnesia, but it doesn't do much to counter spells in the early game, so That might be ruled out.

   Mystic remora is an excellent card just to stall, but it is really two sided. you may be able to draw cards, but you won't have any mana. but is it worth it to leave it out for only a short amount of time?

The Phyrexian furnace I like because it stays out and destroys grave yards, and at worst is a cremate. I like it a lot.

I am really considering the trade routes, because it saves your lands from wasteland, gets rid of a mana clog, is blue, and is its own draw engine.

Impulse is also a instants ( me r knowing the anglais is bade) and it digs very deep, fixing mana screw and find a counter fairly quiclkly. probably this, the trade routs or the furnace.


Any help?

[Fominian]

Okay...

Grip of Amnesia - not a bad idea since a lot of decks like to use their graveyard as a utility, and it cantrips to boot - but then what if they have no grave or nothing their they want to keep?  For the 1U I would rather stick with Mana Leak and if you want a counter with a cantrip there is always Disrupt.

Mystic Remora - This does have the potential to net you card advantage, and the cost to negate it is fairly high so most will not be willing to pay it.  However, they can play a wait game or just remove it another way.  But it would do well late game (possibly) and playtesting may prove it worth running.

Phyrexian Furnace - Tormod's Crypt is forever better - it hits the entire grave, is free - only thing is no cantrip.  But that is not really want your aiming for…

Trade Routes - Cost effectiveness for impact, is just not worth it in my mind.

Impulse - Now this is what you want to run - it digs deep and can get you the cards you want faster.

[the boogie man]

I just might
Verbal Warning for spam.

[Karn, Mox Golem]

To be honest, even without drain this deck should probably be running 2 cunning wishes to hit some silver bullets(and the occasional berserk for the win).  I really dont understand the inclusion of fastbond at all without 4 gush, why was it included in the first place?

[ascribe]

I absolutely agree that mana drains have no place in the version you are moving toward. Here is a list with a couple updates I have made. I played this deck to top 8 nearly every tournament I went to with it, but found that it seemed to be seriously lacking against workshop decks.

4 Quirion Dryad
2 Psychatog

4 Serum Visions
4 Brainstorm
3 Night's Whisper
1 Gush
1 Ancestral Recall

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Misdirection
2 Duress

2 Cunning Wish

1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk

4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Forest (I know, there is no way to fetch it in this list, but I feel better)
1 Swamp
6 MoxLotus
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine

All in all, I found it to be a very solid deck and this post rekindled my interest in playing it. When it goes, it really goes.

I hate playing AK mirror matches, so I decided not to use that. I also wanted to test out Night's Whisper, and I found that it is amazing in this deck. Serum Visions is decent as a mana fixer and lets you dig. The sorcery speed of the draw engine is generally not a problem. You WANT to beef up your dude as much as possible before you swing, hence the 10 free counterspells to protect your investment.

Fastbond is both a bomb and a dud in this deck, therefore I cut it to tighten things up a bit. With the relatively low land count, it was not pulling its weight.

Sideboard options include:
1 Berserk
1 Coffin Purge
1 Fact or Fiction
2 Blue Elemental Blasts
3 Null Rods (Board out off color moxen)
1 diabolic edict
2 oxidize
1 natuaralize
3 metagame dependent

Now I want to give this thing a whirl again. Thanks.

[the boogie man]

Actually, here is the deck that I'm current playing:

4 qurion dryad
2 psychatog

1 ancestral recall
4 nights whisper
4 brainstorm
1 gush
1 merchant scroll
1 demonic tutor
1 mystical tutor
3 cunning wish
1 impulse
1 demonic consultation

1 yawgmoths will
1 time walk

4 force of will
3 mana leak
2 daze
2 duress
1 natralize
1 pernicious deed

4 polluted delta
1 flooded strand
3 tropical island
2 underground sea
3 island
2 swamp
1 strip mine

1 black lotus
all mox but pearl

side:
1 oxidize
1 naturalize
1 ebony charm
1 diabolic edict
1 echoing truth
1 stifle
1 berserk
2 hydroblast
3 ground seal
1 misdirection
1 snuff out
1 hurkyls recall

The reason that i don't run the misdirection main is that the only thing they are good for recently is ancestral and counters.

And the fact or fiction costs too much without the drains, even as a wish target. What are your opinions on the maindeck deed?

[VGB]

  or is serum visiond a better choice because it smoothes out the mana and draws as well as not generating card disadvantage? or should something else be cut for a serum visions? or shoulld I just leave it out?

The main problem with vision is that its a sorcery...  You cannot cast it in response, or end of turn.  Though it is a nice draw, I personally would not stray into this territory (if you want scry - Tel-Jilad is a nice solution, given the meta.).  I however would stray away for sorcery draw, and stick to an instant speed for the flexibility of them.

I really don't see an issue with adding more sorceries to an already sorcery speed laden GaT, especially when it plays Dryads, Duress, and Night's Whisper.  All the counters have alternate casting costs (Daze, Mis-D, Force).

If you shift to a build with more instants (essentially replacing Night's Whisper with AK), then I can see why one would be hesitant to run more sorceries - your ability to respond to the opponent and make different spell choices EOT suffers.  Since this build has so many sorcery speed spells already, adding a few more Serum Visions quality cantrips can only be beneficial, as you are already heavily commited to tapping out during your turn with this current build.  Running AK should be a meta consideration, by the way - it is always a possibility in GaT.

Tel-Jilad Justice actually sounds quite good, except for the fact it is green.

If GaT is to ever have a solid chance against Workshop decks, it absolutely needs to splash red and run things like RnR, Artifact Mutation, Fire/Ice, etc.

[the boogie man]

I actually tuned it more toward beating workshop by adding tons of basics, a strip mine, naturalize and pernicious deed main, 3 instant speed welder or fat or artifact killers (cunning wish-->oxidize, diablic edict, snuff out, BEB, naturalize) and 3 ground seals in the side. Plus, Togs often get big enough to block the fat, and dryads are not far behind.

   The removal of mana drain will make my workshop match better, because I have more "free" counters (daze) and I also have a counterspell that lets me lay two different basics on two consecutive turns and have the mana to play it, Shoring up on the wasteland factor. I can go "Swamp-->duress" and then follow up with "island--> mana leak" instead of having to fetch the underground sea first turn, which is far more likely to get blowed up.

   but say I were to add red, what would you suggest? Are there any free artifact desruction spells that are easily splashable?

[korangar]

Here is the list I'm actualy playing. It runs no Tog, and instead I've put in the "combo" Tinker + DSC. This version of "GAT" is quite straight-forward, since it's main goal is to drop an early dryad and pump it to the limit.

Kill(5)
4 Quirion Dryad
1 Darksteel Colossus

Draw(16)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Gush
3 Night's Whispers
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Serum Visions

Counter(10)
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Misdirection
1 Disrupt

Utility/Tutor/Broken(8)
1 Time Walk
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Tinker
1 Mistical Tutor
1 Berserk
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor

Mana(21)
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal

SideBoard(15)
1 Oxidize
1 Naturalize
1 Ground Seal
1 Tormod's Cript
2 Damping Matrix
3 Energy Flux
2 Hydroblast
3 Back to Basics
1 Diabolic Edict

The land configuration is a bit unusual, but it realy works, since you are much less disrupted by wasteland effect, and I run 3 SB Back to Basics, a house against most of the current decks (excluding Control Slavery).

It runs no Cunning MB, since I've found them realy slow, since my land count is a bit low, and it's difficult to cast it.

All counters (except Disrupt, which I like a lot) are free, so you don't need to worry if tapped-out. Hence the inclusion of Serum visions and Wispers.

I think I'll cut the merchant for a copy of an Echoing Truth o Chain of Vapour, to solve the problems of facing a Plat or a similar.

(Sorry for my bad English)