U/W Aggro Contr

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

W/U Aggro Control
NavySeals.dec

Creatures///9
1 Platinum Angel
4 Meddling Mage
4 True Believer

Controll///15
R Balance
1 Moat
2 Back to the Basics
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Daze

Engine///7
3 Scroll Rack
4 Land Tax

Other///5
R Ancestral Recall
R Enlightened Tutor
R Mystical Tutor
R Tinker
R Time Walk

Mana///24
R Chrome Mox
R Mox Diamond
R Library of Alexandria
R Sol Ring
R Black Lotus
R Mox Sapphire
R Mox Pearl
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
6 Plains
4 Island

Sideboard///15
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Decree of Justice
3 Guilded Drake
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Energy Flux

Here's my updated list. Here's why I think you people at TMD should look at my deck:

Quick Summary for Lazy Kids:

Hates Out:
Combo
Oath
Slaver
Titan

Hated By:
Stax *

* - Only Game 1 is there great difficulty.

Why it is better than Fish:
Fish run's fragle creatures, and the mana denial it uses (Null Rod) is now subpar. It has no back up versus Workshop because 5/3s just destroy 1/1s, and Fish cannot race creatures like that. However, in NavySeals, Moat and Swords to Plowshares makes sure that you can race them, even if you have to pause for a while. A simple Moat game one can shut down the offence of a Workshop deck, and a Platinum Angel can just fly over. Balance also works when they start a Smokestack, because if I can leave myself with 2 mana, I can drop a Balance and usaully even the score. It also has 8 additional combo-hate cards maindeck for the TPS, Belcher, and DeathLong matchups. Against Control, there's a problem. I think the matchup before sideboarding is about equal, but if you sideboard in Decree it helps alot.

Why it is better than Parfait:
Parfait is a dead deck. It is very slow, and can hardly win under its own steam. Taxing out lands so it can win with Belcher? That's alot of time and mana. Wouldn't you rather have 8 2/2 creatures that help you stop combo, which is Parfait's hardest matchup, kill them with a Tinker for Angel back up? It wins faster. It also has Force of Will and Daze for countering without mana open. With Back to Basics, Moat, and Platinum Angel, you can provide your own "fortess" just like Parfait. Running Tinker with the Scroll Rack is good because you can put artifacts back into the library, and Daze with Tax is good because Daze can counter a spell and then you search for some lands, which thins the deck and gives you fuel for a Scroll Rack, which will draw you into more control. It's an engine within itself. Parfait just didn't use the engine as well. All but the control matchup are improved.

Why it is better than 4CC:
4CC has a weak manabase which is easily hated in the current environment. Seals runs off basic lands and an Engine that searches for more. With a hard to disrupt base, Seals can search for the control cards needed at the time easier. This makes the control matchup better, because it is less veneralbe to Strips. It uses a similar win, but also has an optional "aggro" win (Believer and Mage beat down anyone?) which it good if you are short on mana. It is equivalent to 4CC in the combo match up because it has more "you lose" cards even though it has less disruption. Against aggro I have Moat, Swords, and Platinum Angel, which all stall as good as 4CC does.

Matchups:

Stax/Welder Varients
Biggest problem so far, however the only ones giving major problems are the rogue(rogue?) ones with weird stuff like Time Vault + Lodestone Charger and newbie builds with Arcbound Crusher and Arcbound Ravager. The major things that hurt me are Chalice of the Void and Tangle Wire. With Smokestack, I can win the race with Land Tax because I can keep fetching lands. Meddling Mage for Goblin Welder has helped alot. I'm considering maindeck Samurai of the Pale Curtain instead of the True Believers in order to help this matchup because Crucible/Strip is also becoming a menace. It might only seem like that because I've faced it all night.

Sideboarding:

Standard Stax
+4 Disenchant
+1 Swords to Plowshares
+4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
- 4 True Believer
- 1 Platinum Angel
- 1 Tinker
- 2 Impulse
- 1 Chrome Mox

or

Aggro Varient
+4 Disenchant
+3 Guilded Drake
+1 Swords to Plowshares
- 4 True Beleiver
- 1 Platinum Angel
- 1 Tinker
- 2 Impulse

FoodChainGoblins
This matchup is easy. Meddling Mage for Ringleader if they are going for the Food Chain. Drop Moat. Swords and Balance kill creatures. Make sure to kill the key cards, such as Warcheif. It's not a deck to be afraid of.

Sideboarding:
+ 1 Darksteel Colosus
+ 1 Swords to Plowshares
+ 2 Disenchant
- 2 Back to Basics
- 2 True Believer

ControlTitan/Slaver
I learned how to play this before the deck was at this state. I didn't even know he was playing Titan the first game. It looked like weird control, and I dropped Meddling Mage for Mana Drain. That was smart. Then I dropped another for Force of Will. I ended up winning the game, but didn't see a Titan or a Welder. Next game I hardcast an Angel in desperation to end it, he Mana Drains into Pentevus and he plays with Pentavus and Titan till I die. Game three I sideboard smart, Meddling Mage for Welder, and then don't play anything with cc 3 or higher. I end up winning with 2/2 beats. Basically I learned this: Cut the resources to play Titan: Welder and Mana Drain. If you get rid of Welder and don't give them a Drain target, you win. Against Slaver it's the same, except Believer is an allstar.

Sideboarding:

Titan
- 4 True Believer
- 1 Platinum Angel
- 1 Tinker
+ 1 Swords to Plowshares
+ 3 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
+ 2 Guilded Drake

Slaver
- 1 Platinum Angel
- 1 Tinker
- 1 Moat
- 1 Balance
+ 1 Swords to Plowshares
+ 3 Guilded Drake

4CC
4CC is a harder matchup. Control versus Control is hard, because your running less hard counters, more creature removal, and a fragile win. The Decrees in the board are for this matchup. Basically, force your engine, then draw into a Decree and cycle it for as many 1/1s as possible. You can take control with Back to Basics. It's a hard, hard game one.

Sideboarding:

+ 2 Decree of Justice
+ 1 Darksteel Colossus
- 1 Moat
- 1 Balance
- Swords to Plowshares

Oath
Oath has big creatures. First you want to get Meddling Mage for Oath of Druids into play or accumulate a nice draw engine. You are going to want to Tinker next. No matter what, if they don't remove Angel, you can't die. Then you can beat them with 1/1s and 2/2s. You can even attempt to deck them.  Not an incredibly tough matchup.

Sideboarding:
+ 1 Swords to Plowshares
+ 3 Guilded Drake
+ 4 Samauri of the Pale Curtain
- 4 True Believer
- 1 Moat
- 2 Back to Basics
- 1 Balance

DeathLong/TPS/Belcher
Best matchups. You have 8 creatures that shut them down. Mage for Tendrils/Belcher and True Believer. Both are insane. Back them with Daze and Force of Will, and you've got the game. Not much of a problem, you might not even need to sideboard.

Sideboarding

- 1 Moat
- 3 Swords to Plowshares
+ 4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain/Disenchant

Fish
Fish is also a nice matchup. It runs fragile creatures, and Null Rod, which although hurts a little, does not compare to B2B.  B2B can shut down their manlands and duals, while Meddling Mage for Grim Lavamancer is awesome. Your creatures are bigger, and Wastes and Strips are met with Tax.

Sideboarding

+ 1 Darksteel Colossus
+ 1 Swords to Plowshares
+ 2 Decree of Justice
- Moat
- 3 True Believer

There's the deck. Comments are welcome.

[DeadHead]

I like the deck. It seems like you have a good matchup vs. a lot of decks.

Things I dont really like:

4x Daze

Cant this be replaced with a better counter. Maybe you can try the sucky  Foil.
If your Land Tax/ Scroll Rack is doing its thing you can miss that Island.
I have never tested this card but I think its worth the try.

Also, why isnt there a Mystical Tutor in this deck? You can search your Tinker and Enlightened Tutor which can search B2B or other usefull enchantments.

Side note:

True Believer + Recall =/= Tech

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

I like the deck. It seems like you have a good matchup vs. a lot of decks.

Things I dont really like:

4x Daze

Cant this be replaced with a better counter. Maybe you can try the sucky  Foil.
If your Land Tax/ Scroll Rack is doing its thing you can miss that Island.
I have never tested this card but I think its worth the try.

Also, why isnt there a Mystical Tutor in this deck? You can search your Tinker and Enlightened Tutor which can search B2B or other usefull enchantments.

Side note:

True Believer + Recall =/= Tech

Yes, True Believer doesn't work with Recall. Oh well.

I'll test Mystical, I do definitly need it. Maybe - 1 Impulse for it? Then the other Impulse for Time Walk?

I'm thinking of dropping the sideboarded Disenchants for Energy Flux. What do you guys think? It should make Stax much easier because they can't hold on to their lock.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

W/U Aggro Control
NavySeals.dec

Creatures///9
1 Platinum Angel
4 Meddling Mage
4 True Believer

Controll///15
R Balance
1 Moat
2 Back to the Basics
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Daze

Engine///7
3 Scroll Rack
4 Land Tax

Other///5
R Ancestral Recall
R Enlightened Tutor
R Mystical Tutor
R Tinker
R Time Walk

Mana///24
R Chrome Mox
R Mox Diamond
R Library of Alexandria
R Sol Ring
R Black Lotus
R Mox Sapphire
R Mox Pearl
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
6 Plains
4 Island

Sideboard///15
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Decree of Justice
3 Guilded Drake
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Energy Flux

Heres changes, and explanations.

- 2 Impulse
+ 1 Mystical Tutor
+ 1 Time Walk

Mystical is Tinker # 2 and fetches Recall, Walk, Swords, Balance, and even FoW against Combo. It can fetch more consistantly than Impulse, how ever I'm kind of mad it can't fetch lands, because I have done it a few times with Impulse.

Time Walk draws me a card. It untaps. It allows for consistant first/second turn 2/2s and with Decree of Justice can be a pain for control. Tempo swings are important.

- 4 Disenchant
+4 Energy Flux

What gives me problems is the prison aspect of Stax, not the aggro. Flux shuts down the prisons and can slow them down enough for a Tinkered Angel.

[Fominian]

Whats with the SB DoJ?  Don't get me wrong, the card is fine and all, its just to be really effective you have to cast it late, late game and you are lacking all the nice lil synergies with it...

FoW - you are running 13 other blue spells, and most of them are things you probably would not want to pitch (Tutors, Draw, heck even mages would protect you...) Have you really found that they were needed?  It personally seems a tad risky.  Have you looked into the Leak route?

The other thing that bothers me about this deck is the MD Moat - I rarely have ever been in a situation where I would want this. And I can think of a few cards that would probably serve you better - on the consistancy end atleast.

On that note have you looked at the following:

Brainstorm - with all your fun lil library manip, whats 1 more?  Also able to cast it right away end of turn 1.

Orim's Chant/Abeyance - this could help greatly in the early game to net you a simple time walk (sometimes) or to protect your turn (most often).

Argivian Find (SB) - the mass majority of your tech, and win are artifacts - and you would want to protect those.  Why not run some of this in the SB to use as a fetch?

Cunning Wish - finding answers now has always been a good idea.

[erictehfatz0r]

Have you considered running Exalted Angel? I really don't know what you could take out, but it sounds like a good idea. Also, what advantages does the Land Tax/Scroll Rack Engine have over any other drawing engine? It sorta seems like only using it twice is not enough to warrant 4.

But, I must say this is a great GREAT looking deck, and hope you do very well with it.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

Have you considered running Exalted Angel? I really don't know what you could take out, but it sounds like a good idea. Also, what advantages does the Land Tax/Scroll Rack Engine have over any other drawing engine? It sorta seems like only using it twice is not enough to warrant 4.

But, I must say this is a great GREAT looking deck, and hope you do very well with it.

I ran Angel originally over Tinker/Platz, but not losing the game seems much more important versus Stax and other Workshop decks that can produce mulitiple oversized threats.

Land Tax/Scroll Rack is a good engine versus Stax because it grabs me lands to sacrifice to Smokestacks. Also, over time it becomes "1: Draw 3+ cards." Against control decks I can activate my Tax almost every turn, grabbing me 3 lands. Even when I put them on the top with Rack, I can search for them again next turn, shuffling my deck to draw me new spells. It also thins the deck so my topdecks are more likely to be threats or removal. Land Tax by itself has been very important.

Whats with the SB DoJ? Don't get me wrong, the card is fine and all, its just to be really effective you have to cast it late, late game and you are lacking all the nice lil synergies with it...

FoW - you are running 13 other blue spells, and most of them are things you probably would not want to pitch (Tutors, Draw, heck even mages would protect you...) Have you really found that they were needed? It personally seems a tad risky. Have you looked into the Leak route?

The other thing that bothers me about this deck is the MD Moat - I rarely have ever been in a situation where I would want this. And I can think of a few cards that would probably serve you better - on the consistancy end atleast.

On that note have you looked at the following:

Brainstorm - with all your fun lil library manip, whats 1 more? Also able to cast it right away end of turn 1.

Orim's Chant/Abeyance - this could help greatly in the early game to net you a simple time walk (sometimes) or to protect your turn (most often).

Argivian Find (SB) - the mass majority of your tech, and win are artifacts - and you would want to protect those. Why not run some of this in the SB to use as a fetch?

Cunning Wish - finding answers now has always been a good idea.

DoJ is for control. It's an uncounterable threat and is a very dangerous spell for control to see cycled late game.

FoW seems to be working with the consistancy I want it to. I've ditched even Ancestral Recall to it; it's used for threats that I need to get rid of like Welder or Trinisphere.

There is absolutly no room for Brainstorm that I can find. Same goes with Cunning Wish. Plus, I need alot of sideboard spots for Stax.

Chant and Abeyance is more for control hate, which I already have alot of.

[TylerEss]

How's Tax/Rack working out for you? When I was playing a deck with a similar creature base, I was losing games before the Tax would come online. That's also the reason that Parfait stopped running Tax/Rack and turned into Enchantress. Also, lots and lots of testing back in Parfait days showed that 3Tax/4Rack was the Right Thing, because multiple Tax isn't much good, plus you already know they're going to be gunning directly for your scroll rack-without it you don't have a draw engine.

How often can you really cast Moat? Moat is some good, but most opponents don't let you get that much mana before they kill you.

How good is Balance when you've got so many creatures? It also shuts off your draw engine by making them sacrifice lands... just a thought.

Keep working on this. Meddling Mage is Teh Win.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

How's Tax/Rack working out for you? When I was playing a deck with a similar creature base, I was losing games before the Tax would come online. That's also the reason that Parfait stopped running Tax/Rack and turned into Enchantress. Also, lots and lots of testing back in Parfait days showed that 3Tax/4Rack was the Right Thing, because multiple Tax isn't much good, plus you already know they're going to be gunning directly for your scroll rack-without it you don't have a draw engine.

How often can you really cast Moat? Moat is some good, but most opponents don't let you get that much mana before they kill you.

How good is Balance when you've got so many creatures? It also shuts off your draw engine by making them sacrifice lands... just a thought.

Keep working on this. Meddling Mage is Teh Win.

The different between the old Parfait TaxRack and mine is this: In this meta, there is a high number on nonbasic hate through Crucible+Wasteland, Back to Basics, Blood Moon, and various others (okay, I lied, there's not much else), the ability to search for more lands is amazing. It's also good with Trinisphere to ensure you reach 3 mana. In this environment, Land Tax is just as much as a threat as Scroll Rack was then.

Moat is a 1 of just so I can pull it out in dire need. Game 1 I have no hate main deck for anything but combo, if you don't count the mandatory StPs. Aganist Aggro, which would have been a difficult matchup, I can just swing that bad boy up.  

Balance is a security measure. Balance plus Daze makes for an active Tax. However, I think I'm going to cut if for Gush. Opinions? Gush equals Active tax plus nets 4 cards to Rack away.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

Someone just made me realise something. Oath targets. So...Beleiver hates it! Changing the main post because well, I just had a breakthrough.

[koxl0003]

Someone just made me realise something. Oath targets. So...Beleiver hates it! Changing the main post because well, I just had a breakthrough.

Check the Oracle Text of Oath of Druids:
"At the beginning of each player's upkeep, if that player controls fewer creatures than any of his or her opponents, the player may reveal cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals a creature card. The player puts that card into play and all other cards revealed this way into his or her graveyard."

It doesn't target anymore. Sorry to burst your bubble and all, but I thought it was rather important.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

Someone just made me realise something. Oath targets. So...Beleiver hates it! Changing the main post because well, I just had a breakthrough.

Check the Oracle Text of Oath of Druids:
"At the beginning of each player's upkeep, if that player controls fewer creatures than any of his or her opponents, the player may reveal cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals a creature card. The player puts that card into play and all other cards revealed this way into his or her graveyard."

It doesn't target anymore. Sorry to burst your bubble and all, but I thought it was rather important.

Never listen to StarOrc.

[Onslaught]

Why did this thread die with no real "conclusion?" Is it just an over-optimistic portrayal of matchups by the original poster or does it have potential?

If nothing else, the creature base is EXTREMELY attractive in light of what the most popular decks are now. This is sorta like Parafait with cool creatures, but is there something that can capitalize on 8 Believers/Mages as the basis of a deck? Perhaps a more focused U/W control...I shall research and try to come up with a list.

[Tristal]

I'd like to know why you think this deck has an advantage over Oath or Titan.

FoodChainGoblins
This matchup is easy. Meddling Mage for Ringleader if they are going for the Food Chain. Drop Moat. Swords and Balance kill creatures. Make sure to kill the key cards, such as Warcheif. It's not a deck to be afraid of.

Moat does nothing, because they have Sharpshooter and Siege-Gang.  
Meddling Mage does nothing, because they have Gempalm Incinerator.  
Balance does nothing, because by the time they have multiple creatures in play, they've gone off.  
Swords does nothing, because Recruiter and Ringleader still work.
Have you tested this matchup at all?

It looked like weird control, and I dropped Meddling Mage for Mana Drain. That was smart. Then I dropped another for Force of Will. I ended up winning the game, because the guy playing this was an idiot and kept a horrible hand.

Editted for accuracy.

For your trouble, I will say that True Believer is very, very solid against Tendrils decks.  I just don't see running it maindeck (especially with Ancestral) over Samurai of the Pale Curtain, as Samurai wrecks Dragon, Welder, and partially hoses Yawgmoth's Will.