[Deck] My Waterbury Slaver List, with explanations

[The Atog Lord]

I was waiting for Ray to post decklists from Waterbury. However, he has made the decision to withhold decklists until after the SCG event.

I was asked to not post top 16 decks until after SCG.

As an aside, I truly hope that this does not set a precedent. I don’t look forward to the day in which TO’s fail to disclose the lists at their events, or retain them until they are too old to be worthwhile. This would, I believe, hurt the entire format in the long term, as it stifles the proper flow of information about the metagame and deck evolution.

That being said, I want to thank Ray for running a very fun event. I had a great time and got to meet some really cool people.

Alright, now that that is out of my system, I’m going to present my own decklist from Waterbury. I’m not going to do a report, because there’s not much of interest to say. Basically, I came in top 16 in the first event after going undefeated in the Swiss, and then won the second event. My only two match loses of the weekend came against Workshop decks.

Here is the list. I’ll explain the card choices below.

// Creatures
        1 Triskelion
        1 Platinum Angel
        1 Pentavus
        4 Goblin Welder
// Counter
        4 Mana Drain
        4 Force of Will
// Drawing
        4 Thirst for Knowledge
        4 Brainstorm
        1 Fact or Fiction
        1 Ancestral Recall
// Other
        2 Duress
        2 Mindslaver
        1 Tinker
        1 Time Walk
        1 Mystical Tutor
// Black
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        1 Demonic Tutor
// Mana
        1 Mana Crypt
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Lotus Petal
// Land
        1 Library of Alexandria
        1 Darksteel Citadel
        3 Underground Sea
        4 Polluted Delta
        4 Volcanic Island
        4 Island
// Sideboard
SB:  3 Lava Dart
SB:  2 Tormod's Crypt
SB:  1 Duress
SB:  2 Echoing Truth
SB:  4 Sphere of Resistance
SB:  3 Rack and Ruin

Now I’ll explain a few of my more interesting card choices.

Maindeck:

Trike
The Control Slaver mirror match is a terrible match, often coming down to luck. I know that luck is often just skill in disguise, but after spending hours upon hours testing, I’m really not sure how the match can be consistently won. Control Slaver is a control deck that is strong against control decks and control strategies, and this makes consistently winning the mirror very difficult. However, many games do come down to Welder superiority. And Trike is the king of that particular game. He spent the day killing Welders, and the occasional other creature. He’s strong against Workshop decks, Madness, Fish, and he transforms FCG from an unfavorable to a favorable match. I recommend that you try him maindeck.

Duress
This card is a pure metagame call. We actually overestimated the number of combo decks which would show up in the format, and this was our response. Duress is a solid but unamazing card in many matches. In the mirror, the card is fine as it can sometimes hit a Tinker or a Will, but I’d prefer something a bit more proactive there. Against Combo is where the card shines, but overall I wasn’t thrilled with its performance for me.

Lotus Petal
Again, this card was a reaction to our overestimating combo in the metagame. This gets a Mana Drain online on the first turn, and it further serves to allow a Sphere of Resistance to drop on the first turn.

Sideboard Cards:

Sphere of Resistance
So, why this card over Arcane Lab? As you can see from Chris’ excellent tournament report, he and I differed our builds by only this one spot. He had Lab, where I had this. Sphere is vulnerable to cards like Rebuild, and it is less crippling than Lab to a combo deck. It doesn’t even pitch to Force of Will. So, why in the world did I run it? Because costing two is a heck of a lot better than costing three against a fast combo deck. The deck, as you can see from the list, has a much easier time getting two mana on the first turn than three. And on the draw against something like Death Long, I’d really be more comfortable with playing something on my first turn than giving them two uninterrupted turns. Granted, Chris’ Labs did rather well for him, so I’m going to consider changing over to those.

Echoing Truth
This is a one-shot answer to Akroma, Null Rod, and Ground Seal. The deck should have some answer to Ground Seal, and I prefer this over Explosives. Truth has the advantage of not only getting around but also stopping Null Rod. Against Fish, it can remove a Curious creature. And it has surprise value, unlike the often-preferred Explosives. Add in the fact that it pitches to Force of Will and Obliterates a Dragon player, and you have a very very solid utility spell.

Tormod’s Crypt
At one point in Waterbury, the high tables were dominated by Dragon and Cerebral Assassin. These decks are both well-suited to stand against Control Slaver because CS has few answers to their strong draw engine of Squee/Bazaar. Unlike most combo decks, these decks can fight a strong mid to late game off their engine, which is conveniently immune to counter magic. I keep getting awful results against Dragon in testing the match, although I’m 5-0 in tournaments against the deck. When you factor in that Crypt is a 0cc artifact, stops Rector, and really hurts Death Long, it seems like a natural inclusion. I really did try to fit a third copy in the board.

[Nantuko Rice]

He’s strong against Workshop decks, Madness, Fish, and he transforms FCG from an unfavorable to a favorable match. I recommend that you try him maindeck.

Shhhhhhhhh

Tormod’s Crypt...stuff

FCG has a tough time against faster combo decks, becuase those decks have countermagic and strong draw engines. Tormod's Crypt is very useful and I always find myself running 3 in every FCG sideboard.

[Whatever Works]

I like your list alot but what I really like (and respect) is that your not with holding your decklist like others. those who claim they want type 1 PTQ format, but then hold back the entire metagame...

Congrats on winning the day 2 event, I watched several of your matches while i was watching people go all in with hands of 2/5 pre-flop at the no limit poker event... OMG people were terrible...

[Dante]

Rich, nice job on the finish.  

On the point of holding decklists, I don't think holding them for 1 week is a big deal, especially since it would take probably take Ray almost a week to get them up anyway...

Bill

[Klep]

On the point of holding decklists, I don't think holding them for 1 week is a big deal, especially since it would take probably take Ray almost a week to get them up anyway...

Holding them for a week is a big deal when the next big tournament is the following weekend.

[Sytupal]

On the point of holding decklists, I don't think holding them for 1 week is a big deal, especially since it would take probably take Ray almost a week to get them up anyway...

Holding them for a week is a big deal when the next big tournament is the following weekend.

This along with the simple principle of the situation.  

The fact that Ray is grading papers and is rather busy currently is understandable, however in a general situation like this, it shouldn't be "not a big deal"

[BigChuck]

It normally takes him about that long to get them up anyway. Give him a break.

Anyway, back on topic, nice finish Rich.

[Hyperion]

The issue isn't the time it takes to release the decklists - it's that the decision to release them was made by taking the SCG Richmond tournament into consideration, when ideally it would have been made independently of any other factors. If the TO had said "I won't have time to put up lists until (such and such a date)" that would have been better than saying "I have the lists but won't put them up until after another tournament is over" - at least in my opinion, it would have been.

Rich, if you could have done it again would you still have run the 2 Duress or something else? If the latter, what would you have gone with?

[Mixing Mike]

I'd run 2 Deep Analysis.  Rich is one of the few top CS players not running them.

[The Atog Lord]

Andy, I agree 100%  with your comments about posting decklists.

As for my decklist itself, I can't really complain. I won the second day event, and I lost in top 16 to a misplay on my part, and not to any fault of the deck. So, there's nothing more I can really ask of it.

However, it could have been improved. My only two match losses all weekend were to Workshop decks. The Duress in the board would have served me better as a fourth Rack and Ruin. Also, I'm not sure about Duress maindeck. Lava Dart and Tormod's Crypt, or even a Wish, would have been more solid.

[nataz]

Congrats on your finnish both days, you certainly deserve it.

On the issues of combo hate:

I’ll admit, that when I was searching for SB hate against combo (which I felt was going to be huge at Waterbury) it was your last Waterbury decklist and your SB sphere of resistance that I turned too. However, I also ended up testing chalice of the void, and arcane lab.

I would just like to add that in my testing arcane lab was doing much better then sphere of resistance against TPS, and worse against belcher. TPS's maindeck rebuilds, combined with their billion ways to find it, was exceedingly frustrating.

Alternatively, I came to love how labs basically stop the combo matches in their tracks, even if they generally come down a turn later.

I guessed that there would be more TPS decks, and less belcher-esq decks at Waterbury so I went with the labs.

Chalice for me was an almost non-choice, because set at zero it was easily played around, and set at one, significantly slowed me down.

I’d say for the future that I’ll most likely stick with the labs, unless meandeck’s new beast starts to get better/more popular.

On the issue of decklists:

fown that they are being witheld b/c of SCG
props to all those that did release them.

[Klep]

The fact that Ray is grading papers and is rather busy currently is understandable, however in a general situation like this, it shouldn't be "not a big deal"

I don't want to push him to do something he doesn't have time for either.  I don't have a problem with it if Ray simply doesn't have the time.  That's perfectly understandable and I support that.  However, that does not seem to be the entire reason they are being withheld.

[Shades]

Hey Rich, congrats. You're list looks close to mine, but I have one point where I don't agree with you:

Why do you run Tormod's crypt over Phyrexian Furnace? Furnace is in my opinion a lot better. I already played a keeper list with 3 of them MD in Dülmen and all I can say is that it is was great. Ok, its a bit more mana intensive than crypt, but most of the time you dont want to to anything else than just remove the one Squee, or the one Sundering Titan, or Black Lotus or whatever. I especially like it when I can reuse it with for example Goblin Welder or Salvagers (which I played in my Keeper list). it draws you one additional card per turn combined with the little Goblin.
Give it a try .

[Bdrake5150]

Rich

    I had the opportunity to watch a couple of your matches on Day 2, and it was nice to see some a top player so willing to discuss deck choices and options so freely.

    Thanks for the breakdown and reflections on the choices. I too made a metagame choice to run duress, and aside from being really useful on 2 occasions I would of wanted something else.

Jason

[Ged]

Rich, if you have time, could you please tell me how you SB against some decks (Oath, Wshop, FCG, Dragon, TPS/other combo, fast aggro)?

[God_Campbell]

Your list that you ran, was about 59 cards similar to my build that I had, just I choose not to run a petal in my deck.
Now I am sure it was a good call for you and all, but in my experience petal in this deck doesn't provide the escential speed and stability that a mox does and I prefer a island in its place.

[Meddling Mike]

Why do you run Tormod's crypt over Phyrexian Furnace? Furnace is in my opinion a lot better. I already played a keeper list with 3 of them MD in Dülmen and all I can say is that it is was great. Ok, its a bit more mana intensive than crypt, but most of the time you dont want to to anything else than just remove the one Squee, or the one Sundering Titan, or Black Lotus or whatever. I especially like it when I can reuse it with for example Goblin Welder or Salvagers (which I played in my Keeper list). it draws you one additional card per turn combined with the little Goblin.
Give it a try Wink.

All due respect to the furnace I just don't think it's as good as the crypt, sure it can be combolicious if you feel like trading in all your moxes for cremates rather than things like pentavus' and mindslavers, but it only targets once and forces you to constantly leave 1 mana open. Also, the crypt is effective whenever you draw it, one shot kills everything in the yard, allowing it to neuter whatever graveyard recursion they may have had in mind, the difference will be particularly apparent after somebody casts Yawgmoth's Will, removing their ancestral won't be nearly as effective as removing their whole graveyard. I haven't tested it so I won't say it's bad, but that's just my initial reaction.

Your list that you ran, was about 59 cards similar to my build that I had, just I choose not to run a petal in my deck.
Now I am sure it was a good call for you and all, but in my experience petal in this deck doesn't provide the escential speed and stability that a mox does and I prefer a island in its place.

Whoa^3, did I just read that correctly, you think an island provides "the escential speed" but a lotus petal doesn't? And I think the ability to produce whatever type of mana you'd like would contribute enough to the stability of the deck to reasonably negate the loss incurred from sacrificing the petal. You just need to be reasonably smart about the matter, if you've one mana source and the petal and no draw you should probably mull, if you've got brainstorm/ancestral/Drain+TFK then it's probably worth keeping and allows you to get drain online turn 1 which can be huge, especially vs. combo.

[mrieff]

Congratulations on wining the event

I was waiting for Ray to post decklists from Waterbury. However, he has made the decision to withhold decklists until after the SCG event.

[Maindeck:

Trike
The Control Slaver mirror match is a terrible match, often coming down to luck. I know that luck is often just skill in disguise, but after spending hours upon hours testing, I’m really not sure how the match can be consistently won. Control Slaver is a control deck that is strong against control decks and control strategies, and this makes consistently winning the mirror very difficult. However, many games do come down to Welder superiority. And Trike is the king of that particular game. He spent the day killing Welders, and the occasional other creature. He’s strong against Workshop decks, Madness, Fish, and he transforms FCG from an unfavorable to a favorable match. I recommend that you try him maindeck.

I fully disagree that the Slaver mirror is luck-based. Effective sideboarding and more draw (Ak's for instance) prevent that. But your post already states the answer to win the mirror; keep a Welder in play and kill the other guy's Welder. That is the answer to success.

[The Atog Lord]

Kim,

I really appreciate input from the originator of the deck. I have actually tested Furnace, and have not been thrilled with the result. Against an opposing Welder, I agree that Furnace is more elegent and provides some card advantage. However, as Mike pointed out, there are situations where Crypt is superior. Against a Yawgmoth's Will, I am more comfortable hiding behind a Crypt.

Furthermore, the matchups against Dragon and Cerebral Assassin are where I am most dependent on graveyard removal, and in those matches I feel Crypt is superior to furnace. Both cards can deal with a single animation spell. However, Crypt has the advantage of being able to remove Squees while also removing the animation targets, thereby shutting down the Bazaar draw engine which can be very strong against Control Slaver. When you factor in the fact that Tormod's Crypt costs no mana, it seems like a Stronger choice for those matches at least.


@ Ged,

For sideboarding information, please see my Control Slaver Primer.
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15900


@ God_Campbell,

Mike brought up some good points on Petal. The card is simply a way to get Mana Drain online a turn sooner in an environment filled with very strong turn ones. In a slower metagame with lots of mirror matches, I'd think twice before running a Petal.

Finally, on the Control Slaver mirror:
If there is a reliable way to win the mirror, it still evades me. Welder superiority is often a key to victory, but Welders are not a factor in many games as well. I have tested the AK build in the mirror match, and actually disliked it strongly. The mirror is oftentimes a very fast match, and I found that the AK engine required a lot of mana and slows the deck down. I am not arguing that card draw is unimportant in the mirror. I do, however, maintain that the AK engine is too slow.

[jazzykat]

The fact that Ray is grading papers and is rather busy currently is understandable, however in a general situation like this, it shouldn't be "not a big deal"

I don't want to push him to do something he doesn't have time for either.  I don't have a problem with it if Ray simply doesn't have the time.  That's perfectly understandable and I support that.  However, that does not seem to be the entire reason they are being withheld.

I agree with Klep. If he doesn't have time then it's no big D, but if it is on request of the players then I don't agree with his decision.

WRT: Mirror Matches. In the only waterbury I was able to attend back in last March or so I played CS in a sea of CS and tog. I played 3 mox monkeys SB or 2 MD and 1 SB  and dominated CS mirrors until I made stupid mistakes causing me to come in 18th. With lava darts running around I do not know if mox monkey is the way to go, but keeping the opposition from having mana and welding targets was golden at that time!

[God_Campbell]

Ya well I am not saying the petal was a bad choice since it did help in the tounrey I am just saying in my meta it would be far less useful like we do have 5 proxies but i have no trouble getting uu up in time for the bombs to start and if they do get a random thing down i have the tools to handel it.
Thanks for your views on the subject, and congrats