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Author Topic: Type 4 (what to run/include/concepts)  (Read 1200 times)
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Kyle+R+Leith
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« on: January 29, 2005, 04:59:37 pm »

Type 4 is perhaps the most fun format in all of Magic. I have always had a great time playing it at Waterbury, etc... I am now interested in making my own type 4 deck, but am not sure what to include... I know most of the basics, but was wondering if any1 (andy probasco cough!) could fill me in on proportions of what to have....

Concerns Include:
1.) Do I have enough Counterspells???
2.) Do I have enough forms of removal???
3.) Do I have enough Creatures/threats (or will control dominate to much)???

I have about 180ish cards so far, and was just wondering what cards people enjoy having in type 4, and what cards should not be included on reasons such as ennoyence/brokeness/stupidity/etc...

Some cards I was considering to run/not run include:
Memnarch (should be fair with enough removal, but can be stupid)
Mobilization/dragon roost/ (other cards that create infinant creatures should be used/not used???)
Staff of domination (seems to be way to good)
CoTV (to narrow to be worth using?)
Door to nothingness (it takes 1 turn to use, but its still kinda stupid)
Creatures like Nantuko Shade that get infinant power/toughness (these worth using as long as they dont have trample?)
Biorythem (This card can create a draw on turn 1 if no counterspells is it worth using???)

Thanks for any suggestions! They might impact you at the next NE type 1 tourney that Andy/Kowel dont go to (IE if that actually possible to ever occur)
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Nefarias
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« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2005, 12:45:25 am »

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20790&sid=82ceae80d280559b4bd3cef6070756d3

This is basically the "what to include" thread, as well as having a bunch of decklists (including Andy Probasco's). I'll try my best to answer all your questions, as well, based on my T4 experiences. (I play with Andy's deck almost weekly and have a hand in creating/tuning it.)

1. Counterspells: We do not have nearly as many as most, despite having a lot of very big bombs, and it suits us just fine. For the most part, We only have the counters that do something at least marginally special, from Desertion down to Rewind. We don't include basic ones (Counterspell, Spellblast), or the political ones (Vex, Arcane Denial, Fold into AEther), though most people seem to include every counter available to them.

2. Again, we are light in this department, and we're okay with it. Basically, we never want to have a dead card in our hand, including answers. We have a handful of spot removal, all of which does something special as well (Agonizing Demise, Ray of Distortion). We generally don't include the basics (Terror, Disenchant), or the situational (Chastise, Death Stroke). We also run very little mass removal, limited I believe to just Obliterate, Red Decree, and Uktabi Kong. Again, we are in the minority in this depsrtment, as most others I have seen run nearly all printed mass removal.

3. I think that is the key reason why Andy's deck is so much different from everyone else's. Our core playgroup loves the combo aspect above all else, and it shows. If we're about to pull off something cool, we don't want it countered. This is a tough ratio to get down, but just like any other format, playing with the deck enough and weeding stuff out/putting stuff in after each play session will eventually result in a good deck. Or you could just netdeck one of the decks in the above link.

As for the specific cards:

Most people use Memnarch and Door to Nothingness. The Door isn't nearly as broken as one might think, as it can almost always be killed before it untaps, or Stifled afterwards. Memnarch is first-pick good, but you need some broken, right?

We've tried CotV and, while it's cute, it's bad. Void is almost strictly better, and that's bad too.

Firebreathers: Again, Andy's deck is one of the few that use them. We actually only use the best of the best (Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Avarax, Cromat). I recommend starting small (Pygmy Pyrosaur is probably the worst, besides firebreathing Walls), and start working up and see how much the deck can handle.

Staff of Domination: Andy uses it, and probably no one else. THIS CARD IS STUPID. I do not recommend it, unless you put some sort of usage errata on it, which is something we stay away from.

Biorythym: Unless you have someone stupid in your playgroup that is likely to cast this on turn one for the draw, there isn't really a problem with it. We use it, and it's pretty average. You deck really has to be good with it, and it's hard to resolve, so it's usually a last/second-to-last pick.

Infinite amount of creatures: Even we don't use those cards. The only way for that to happen in our deck is Greater Morphling/Uktabi Kong.

Sorry for being so incredibly long winded, but once I start talking about Type4, I can't seem to shut up!
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Kyle+R+Leith
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« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2005, 12:24:55 pm »

This really helps thanks for the info!
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« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2005, 05:39:41 pm »

I don't like one card wins, but two card combos are OK.
I also have an unusually large stack, over 450 cards,
so finding a two card combo is less likely.

Memnarch's not a problem.
Nor are Door To Nothingness or Legacy Weapon.

Avarax and Two-Headed Dragon are good but not broken.
Firebreathers that don't pump toughness can be killed by blocking.
Symmetrical pumpers like Questing Pheldagriff are rougher.

Cromat and Mischievous Quanar are borderline broken.
Cromat's an unkillable firebreather barring Mindslaver, Humility or Damping Matrix.
Mischievous Quanar with Beast Attack or Crush Of Worms makes infinite guys in my stack.
Likewise, MQ with one of the half-dozen burn spells kills everyone at once.
Come to think of it, MQ and a lot of the deck is pretty serious.

I had Nezumi Graverobber and Siege-Gang Commander for a long time,
but I finally realized that the Siege-Gang didn't pull its weight on its own,
and now Nezumi's not quite so broken.

Chain Lightning's fun.
So is Gate To The Aether.
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Moxlotus
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« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2005, 10:27:50 pm »

Here are some of the ridiculous cards we use (note-we love broken plays):

Staff of Domination
Quanar (errata'd to one use/spell)
Greater Morphling
Fist of the suns (we use the variant of acc doesn't count as your spell)
Volcanic Geyser
tons of counterspells(probably about 20 in the 240 cards)
Nezumi Graverobber
Multiple firebreathers, including a morph goblin, one with haste, and one with shadow

We've also built little combos in like Kaboom!+Gleemax, and multiple dragons with dragon searching cards (Zhalfrim of the Claw and the like)
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