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Author Topic: A puzzle  (Read 2648 times)
Gabethebabe
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« on: January 28, 2005, 10:42:44 am »

This was my newyears rules puzzle on my local forum. Now I present it to you. It has a couple of pitfalls, but nothing a rules expert canīt handle.

The scenario:

Monica has in play
1 The Abyss
1 Powder Keg with 0 counters.
and lands

Bill has in play:
1 Academy Rector
1 Wall of Ice, enchanted with Lingering Death (Monica did this to him)
1 Fecundity
1 Liability
and lands

Bill y Monica are at 100 life and have 7 cards in hand. Itīs the turn of Bill.

Beginning fase:
The Abyss destroys Academy Rector. Bill uses its ability and searches Landīs Edge from his library and puts it into play.


Main fase:
Bill plays Asmira, Holy Avenger.

Bill plays Dual Nature.

Monica taps 2 City of Brass and 1 Forbidden Orchard and throws an Urzaīs Rage at Bill. Bill responds with Mana Drain, targeting Urzaīs Rage.

Bill plays a Raging Goblin.


Combat fase:
Monica sacs her Powder Keg at the beginning of combat.

Bill attacks with all he can.


Second main fase:
Bill plays Reckless Abandon, saccing his Raging Goblin card as additional cost, target is Monica.

End of turn:
After the resolution of the ability of Asmira, Bill plays Fling saccing Asmira, target is Monica.

Now the two players throw all their cards (they are all lands) at each others head using the Landīs Edges ability.

The turn of Bill ends. He lights up a cigar.

The question: track the life totals of Bill and Monica during this turn.

Side note: maybe they donīt play optimal, but they donīt forget to draw cards for Fecundity.

A couple of cards you might not remember what they do (if there are other cards you need to check, there is always ORACLE).

Asmira, Holy Avenger
{2}{G}{W}
Legendary Creature
2/3
Flying
At end of turn, put a +1/+1 counter on Asmira, Holy Avenger for each creature put into your graveyard from play this turn.

Dual Nature
{4}{G}{G}
Enchantment
Whenever a creature card comes into play, its controller puts a token into play as a copy of that creature.
Whenever a creature card leaves play, remove all tokens with the same name as that creature from the game.
When Dual Nature leaves play, remove all tokens created with it from the game.

Fecundity
{2}{G}
Enchantment
Whenever a creature is put into a graveyard from play, that creature’s controller may draw a card.

Land’s Edge
{1}{R}{R}
World Enchantment
Discard a card: If the discarded card is a land card, Land’s Edge deals 2 damage to target player. Any player may play this ability.

Liability
{1}{B}{B}
Enchantment
Whenever a card is put into a player’s graveyard from play, that player loses 1 life.

Lingering Death
{1}{B}
Enchant Creature
At the end of enchanted creature’s controller’s turn, that player sacrifices that creature.
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ProZachar
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2005, 04:41:40 pm »

Quote from: Gabethebabe
Monica has in play
1 The Abyss
1 Powder Keg with 0 counters.
and lands

Bill has in play:
1 Academy Rector
1 Wall of Ice, enchanted with Lingering Death (Monica did this to him)
1 Fecundity
1 Liability
and lands

Bill y Monica are at 100 life and have 7 cards in hand. Itīs the turn of Bill.

Beginning fase:
The Abyss destroys Academy Rector. Bill uses its ability and searches Landīs Edge from his library and puts it into play.


Liability, Fecundity and Rector all trigger.  Bill (in any order he chooses) removes Rector from the game and fetches Land's Edge (Rector), loses a life (Liability), and draws a card (Fecundity).  State based effects kill The Abyss (Enchant Worlds); Monica loses a life (Liability)  Draw step happens.

End of phase stats:
Bill:
-1 life (I'm going to keep track of life as a sum of the life lost, rather than the true life total)
9 cards in hand
Wall of Ice; Fecundity; Liability; Land's Edge; lands
Monica:
-1 life
7 cards in hand
Lingering Death; Keg(0); lands
Quote
Main fase:
Bill plays Asmira, Holy Avenger.

Bill plays Dual Nature.

Monica taps 2 City of Brass and 1 Forbidden Orchard and throws an Urzaīs Rage at Bill. Bill responds with Mana Drain, targeting Urzaīs Rage.

Bill plays a Raging Goblin.

End of phase stats with respect to the beginning of the scenario:
Bill:
-4 life (previous + Urza's Rage)
5 cards in hand
Raging Goblin; Raging Goblin copy; Spirit token (no Spirit DN copy because the token isn't a card); Asmira; Dual Nature; enchanted Wall of Ice

Monica:
6 cards in hand
-3 life (previous + COB x2)
Keg (0)
Lingering Death on the Wall of Ice
Quote
Combat fase:
Monica sacs her Powder Keg at the beginning of combat.

Liability triggers for Monica.  Then:
Spirit token dies.  The Goblin-copy doesn't die because it's a copy and has a CMC of 1.  Fecundity triggers (Spirit).  Liability doesn't trigger because the Spirit isn't a card.  Bill draws a card.  Also, Asmira is going to get a counter from this, but no game action occurs at this moment.
Quote

Bill attacks with all he can.

That's a Raging Goblin and a Raging Goblin copy.  Monica can't block, so takes 2 shots in the face.  Pun slightly intended.
Quote

Second main fase:
Bill plays Reckless Abandon, saccing his Raging Goblin card as additional cost, target is Monica.

At the beginning of the phase, Bill gets 3 mana from the Drained Rage.
As a result of playing Reckless Abandon:
Liability triggers because a card went to the yard from play.
Fecundity triggers because a creature went to the yard.
Dual Nature triggers because a creature went to the yard.
Asmira's going to get another counter (again, no game action for this though).
Monica takes 4 from the Abandon, Bill loses a life, draws a card, and removes the Raging Goblin copy from the game.  He also mana burns for 3.

End of phase stats:
Bill:
-8 life (3x mana burn + previous)
5 cards in hand
Liability; Dual Nature; Fecundity; Wall of Ice; Land's Edge; lands

Monica:
-10 life (Abandon + previous)
6 cards in hand
Lingering Death(Wall of Ice), lands
Quote

End of turn:
After the resolution of the ability of Asmira, Bill plays Fling saccing Asmira, target is Monica.

Lingering Death triggers.  By APNAP rules, it goes on the stack on top of Asmira's ability.  Wall of Ice dies.  Fecunidity triggers for Bill.  Liability triggers for Bill.  State base effects kill Lingering Death.  Liability triggers for Monica.  

Bill loses a life and draws a card.
Monica loses a life.

Asmira's trigger resolves.  3 creatures went to the yard, so she's a 5/6.

Fling deals 5 damage to Monica.  Liability triggers for Bill.  Fecundity triggers for Bill.

Pre-land-throwing fest stats:
Bill:
-10 life
7 cards in hand
Liability, Dual Nature, Fecundity, Land's Edge, lands

Monica:
-16 life
6 cards in hand
lands
Quote

Now the two players throw all their cards (they are all lands) at each others head using the Landīs Edges ability.

The turn of Bill ends. He lights up a cigar.

The question: track the life totals of Bill and Monica during this turn.

Bill loses 12 life from the land fest (6 * 2).  Monica lost 14 life from the land fest (7 * 2).  Bill has lost 22 life total.  Monica has lost 30 life total.  Monica is at 70 and Bill is at 78.
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Gabethebabe
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2005, 02:49:48 am »

Quote from: ProZachar

Asmira's trigger resolves.  3 creatures went to the yard, so she's a 5/6.

Monica is at 70 and Bill is at 78.


70 and 78 is the correct answer. Just to make sure that you really understood all: which were the three creatures that went to the yard?
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ProZachar
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2005, 11:31:46 am »

Quote from: Gabethebabe
which were the three creatures that went to the yard?


The Spirit token killed by the Powder Keg, the Raging Goblin sacrificed to the Reckless Abandon, and the Wall of Ice killed by the Lingering Death.
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Gabethebabe
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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2005, 01:54:23 am »

Quote from: ProZachar
Quote from: Gabethebabe
which were the three creatures that went to the yard?


The Spirit token killed by the Powder Keg, the Raging Goblin sacrificed to the Reckless Abandon, and the Wall of Ice killed by the Lingering Death.


That is incorrect Smile

EDIT: i.e. you made two mistakes that cancelled each other out. Thatīs also why I verified the answer.
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ProZachar
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« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2005, 10:29:54 am »

OK, I give up.  The only creatures that were in play with Asmira were the Goblin and the Goblin copy, the Spirit token, and the Wall of Ice.  The copy got RFG'ed by Dual Nature, so Asmira doesn't count that one.

Ooops.  I see.  Asmira counts everybody that went to the yard this turn, not just the ones that went there on her watch.  So, that includes the Rector that was Abyss-ed during the upkeep.  (I knew all along that the Rector spent some time in the yard, I just forgot that Asmira would count the Rector because she wasn't ever in play at the same time as the Rector).

So Asmira's really a 6/7.  So, I guess that was one half of my mistake.  I don't know where the other half is and if I read that scenario any more I think I'll go cross-eyed.
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Gabethebabe
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« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2005, 10:58:41 am »

Almost ....

One error left ....
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Nibble
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« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2005, 03:35:33 pm »

I think I know what the last error is, but I'll refrain from saying it unless ProZachar wouldn't mind. He's done excellently on this so far, I'd hate to feel like I'm stealing his thunder, unless it's okay with him.
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ProZachar
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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2005, 08:50:19 am »

Quote from: Nibble
I think I know what the last error is, but I'll refrain from saying it unless ProZachar wouldn't mind. He's done excellently on this so far, I'd hate to feel like I'm stealing his thunder, unless it's okay with him.


Go for it.
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Nibble
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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2005, 09:21:59 am »

The Spirit token that was destroyed by Powder Keg was under Bill's control, but since it was put into play by Monica via her Forbidden Orchard, Monica was the owner of the token. When it was destroyed, it would go to Monica's graveyard, not Bill's, and therefore doesn't trigger Asmira.

Is that right?
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ProZachar
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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2005, 11:02:29 am »

Quote from: Nibble
The Spirit token that was destroyed by Powder Keg was under Bill's control, but since it was put into play by Monica via her Forbidden Orchard, Monica was the owner of the token. When it was destroyed, it would go to Monica's graveyard, not Bill's, and therefore doesn't trigger Asmira.

Is that right?


Sounds about right.  And, of course, Bill counts as "that creature's controller" for the purposes of Fecundity, so that card draw (which affects the Land's Edge battle) is unaffected.

Nice catch.
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Gabethebabe
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2005, 02:17:06 am »

QAPC Very Happy
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