Miracle Grow, a simple Question

[serracollector]

Simply enough, most of us I imagine, know the basics, of Miracle Grow.  I myself, due to the restriction of 3sphere,  am thinking of piloting it in my next t1 tourney.  Now, what I ask for is ideas for cards that can be used in Miracle Grow that can help enable it to compete with the tier 1 decks in t1.

Now for shits and giggles here is my current trial decklist:

Draw (9)
1 Ancestral
4 Serum Visions
4 Brainstorm

Counters (8)
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Misdirection

Creatures (12)
4 Meddling Mage
4 Werebear
4 Quirion Dryad

Others (8)
3 Swords To Plowshares
Time Walk
Balance
Mystical Tutor
2 Cunning Wish
1 Living Wish
2 Disenchant (old school)

Mana (20)
3 Moxen
8 Duals
5 Fetches
3 Waste
1 Strip


SB (15)
3 Arcane Lab
3 Null Rod
1 Scavenger Folk
1 Kami of Ancient Law
1 berserk
1 StP
1 Stifle
1 Oxidize
1 Mystic Enforcer
2 ?

The meta I am looking at is mostly Oath/Control (including Slaver/BBS/4cc) and Combo (Tog/Belcher/Tendrils)

Any help is much appreciated.  Thanx.

SC

[Necrologia]

Decklists with no discussion do not a good thread make.

That said I'd cut the Disenchants for Seals of Cleansing. Seals can be dropped early, before Oath gets it's counter wall up even, while Disenchant requires that you keep 2 mana up at all times. In a deck so tight on mana that's a back breaker.

Do you find 3 Swords to be a bit excessive along side 2x Cunning Wish and a mystical that can fetch them at need? What about Gush, the classic Gro card?

[Tabasco]

I would cut the Balance maindeck and put it in the sideboard....in its place I would add 1 Crucible

I agree that 3 swords is heavy and with wishes you should kick one to the board as well also Disenchants --> Seals

I dont like serum visions very much as it is a sorcery, It could be replaced with a better draw spell...Like Accumulated Knowledge perhaps

Also consider Nimble Mongoose as a possibility for a creature spot

I would also bump an Enforcer to maindeck maybe put one in place of a bear? he is a great creature that gets big real fast! Gush should also be in here...i would take out the living wish and reconfigure the board to more instants that solve problems...Orim's Chant is also very good in Gro.
Ground seal is also an amazing Sideboard option!!

I hope these ideas help spark a remix to this deck


New List:

Draw (9)
1 Ancestral
4 AK
4 Brainstorm

Counters (8)
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Misdirection

Creatures (11)
3 Meddling Mage
3 Werebear
4 Quirion Dryad
1 Mystic Enforcer

Others (10)
2 Swords To Plowshares
1 Time Walk
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mystical Tutor
3 Cunning Wish
2 Seal of Clensing

Mana (22)
1 Lotus
1 Sol Ring
3 Moxen
8 Duals
5 Fetches
3 Waste
1 Strip


SB (15)
3 Arcane Lab / Orim's Chant
3 Null Rod
1 Naturalize
1 ??Instant??
1 Berserk
1 StP
1 Stifle
1 Oxidize
1 Balance
2 Ground Seal

[Ultima]

Ak is not worth playing in a deck that can't  handle the ak mirror if you run into either Tog or gothslaver.  Simply put you'll hand them the game on a silver platter.

Sleight of hand should always see play before visions because it goes down faster and gets you to the card you might need sooner.

[Jacob Orlove]

Rule #4: Lack of Content. Moved to newbie.

[Chamelet]

Sleight of hand should always see play before visions because it goes down faster and gets you to the card you might need sooner.

Why is that? Visions does exaclty the same thing that Sleight does, but a lot better since you can Scry first and then draw, or draw, then Scry.
- You can throw 2 terrible cards to the bottom and then draw
- YOu can Sleight of hand
- You can Draw, then search the next brainstorm style (I'm not even trying to compare this to Brainstorm OK)

[Yawgs_sammich]

@chamelet:
No, you can not do the things you want to do with serum visions.  You have to do them in the order they are listed on the card, i.e. draw a card, then scry for two.  you don't get to look, then draw.  That is exactly why sleight of hand is better.

that being said, sleight or impulse are both good in that slot.  and no Tog makes baby jesus cry.

[Hi-Val]

I ran sleight over Serum Visions because the deck needs to jump from FOW to FOW right NOW. Having one sit on the top of the library is no fun. You run so few actual draw spells, your cantrips have to hit business quickly instead. In your list, you can cut 2 Cunning Wishes for Merchant Scrolls as well.

[the boogie man]

I am also questioning the usefulness of the dryad with the strips ands wastes. do you find that you don't have enough mana after using these? that is why lam phan ran his mongeese over these, because if you're light on mana then these are still good drops. not to mention that they have good synergy with wastelands, strips, and cantrips, not to mention the three daze that you run. these all lead to a shallow mana base, where you won't always have enough mana to throw enough cantrips down.

[Rancor1]

After playing about ten or fifteen games with the deck, I've come to a few preliminary conclusions. Keep in mind that I'm not convinced on these, but just what I've noticed:

-First of all, I hate the wishes. They just seemed expensive, and I just wasn't playing them much. The Cunnings I was pitching, and Living Wish just sat there.

-Lotus is very good.

-I want more cantrips. Sleights are DEFINATELY better than visionst it's better than AK at the very least) but I think that some amount of visions are needed.

-I liked Merchant Scroll a lot. I'm not sure it's better than Mystical as it doesn't get lots of important things, but I liked having an extra Gush or Ancestral. I also hated the card disadvantage in a deck like this. I found that time advantage is better than card advantage, and as such, I liked Merchant a lot.

I'll be doing some real testing, as I love Gro, and get back to 'yall.

-Seal is better than disenchant, but it can't be fetched by Mystical. Your call.

[MrZuccinniHead]

3x Intuition and 4x AK is a must for a deck like gro.  I like the meta call and think this will be a good deck in a control-heavy meta.  I would also move the swords to the SB in a control-heavy meta.

[Rancor1]

Intuition and AK is terrible in this deck. It's one thing in a deck like GAT, where that is 8 more damage on one attack (not counting the 4th AK). In this deck it is only 2 damage. With three intuitions, you would have to cut a LOT of good cards, including some amount of cantrips. While 3, and subsequently 4 cards is great for this deck, it is too much mana at too big a cost of other good, and better cards. Intuition is also pretty much dead after the first AK, and in a draw-heavy deck, that is not a good thing.

By the way, refering to the post's title, what is the question?

EDIT: added an 'o' to the end of one of the toos.

[einlanzer625]

what about dismantling blow (heck, keeper used it )

and as that extra instant, why not another stifle, its a house in the format right now, or a teferi's response, which takes care of those annoying wastelands at the price of drawing some cards, which seems good to me!

[Rancor1]

Dismantling Blow...blows (sorry, I  just couldn't resist.) Keeper used it because it had mana drains to power it, and didn't want to play 15 cantrips in a single turn. Decks like grow are more focused on time, and will almost never get to six mana. If you do, a single disenchant isn't going to save you.

I agree with the Stifle comment, however. With Tog and Fish coming back, we'll see if the value (play, not monotary) of Misdirection goes up. Teferi's Response seems a bit limited, and pricey. 2 is a lot to keep open.

[Bardo]

and as that extra instant, why not another stifle, its a house in the format right now, or a teferi's response, which takes care of those annoying wastelands at the price of drawing some cards

Teferi's Response is just too conditional, and the mana's going to be too tight in the early game (since Grow is often best played as aggro-control), where Response would have the most value. I don't believe it's a good card in this deck; or any other, for that matter.

First of all, I hate the wishes. They just seemed expensive, and I just wasn't playing them much. The Cunnings I was pitching...

Agreed. Cunning is just too expensive and without Mana Drain mana around, it hardly seems worth it.

I'm not sure it's better than Mystical as it doesn't get lots of important things, but I liked having an extra Gush or Ancestral.

Mystical Tutor is better in the situations where you need to dig up Balance, which is something Scroll obv can't do; and, you know, Mystical costs half the price as Scroll and can be played EOT.

Anyway, here's my current 5-proxy T1 Super Grow list:

4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
2 Sleight of Hand
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Gush

4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
3 Daze
2 Counterspell

3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Engineered Explosives

1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Balance

4 Meddling Mage
4 Quirion Dryad
3 Werebear

3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Library of Alexandria

The basic land count may need to be upped a little. And I need to test Lotus in the deck again.

[Rancor1]

Right now, I'm 1/1 on Mystical and Scroll. I'm slowly leaning towards the Mystical side, though.

I'm going to continue to wage my war against AK in Grow. You want to be aggressive with card drawing or else 2/3 of your creatures are useless, so you don't want to play a battle of wits with Tog, Slaver, Oath, n' friends. AK is also pricey, and the first two tend to suck.

Do you find that you are activating LoA? While the deck is drawing like a madman, it never actually has a big hand. Also, I'd replace the Heaths for Deltas, for obvious reasons.

One last thing: you shun Teferi's Response for being expensive (and other reasons) yet you play counterspell. I cannot imagine that you don't mind the cost; leaving mana open is just so horrible. I'd play Stifles in those spots.

[Bardo]

I'm going to continue to wage my war against AK in Grow. You want to be aggressive with card drawing or else 2/3 of your creatures are useless, so you don't want to play a battle of wits with Tog, Slaver, Oath, n' friends. AK is also pricey, and the first two tend to suck.

AK1 sucks; that's given. AK2+ are good--barring the mirror. I pick AK over the alternatives because they're real card advantage--the cantrips just replace themselves. But in general, I'd prefer a different draw engine--AK is just the best of options, IMO. Hopefully, there'll be something to take AKs place in Ravnica.

Do you find that you are activating LoA?

LoA is for the control-mirror, and there it is a juicy card. You can also Mystical/Scroll for Gush--that often puts you back into LoA activation range. To answer your question more directly, yes, I have activated LoA many times in Grow, and I see no compelling reason to drop it.

Also, I'd replace the Heaths for Deltas, for obvious reasons.

The Heaths are subbing for Delta to fetch out that lone basic forest. If the Forest wasn't there, Delta > Heath, I agree.

One last thing: you shun Teferi's Response for being expensive (and other reasons) yet you play counterspell. I cannot imagine that you don't mind the cost; leaving mana open is just so horrible. I'd play Stifles in those spots.

Let me put it this way: in the early game (turns 1-3/4), both Teferi's Response and Counterspell suck--because you have better things to do with your mana. Counterspell just continues to remain good when Daze stops being effective, and when Response would be of little consequence.

Honestly, though, the fact that Grow can't effectively use Mana Drain (aside from sinking into FoF or Enforcer), suggests that there are far better deck choices in T1; though Lam Phan did very well at SCG Syracause with a similar deck (3rd place).