[Discussion] Ideas Unbound - combo-licious?

[Luiggi]

I was reading through the Saviors FAQ that Jacob posted in the Rules Forum, and found this:

Ideas Unbound
UU
Sorcery -- Arcane
Draw three cards. Discard three cards at end of turn.

The clarification given in the FAQ is "If you don't have three or more cards in hand at the end of turn, you discard what cards you have.", which should be obvious.

Soooo, if we plan on winning the game the turn we play this spell then there are no drawbacks and we've effectively drawn 3 cards for two mana. Am I right in thinking that this could work really well in the right kind of deck? What decks would this best fit into?

Luiggi

[rvs]

It sure is an interesting card to try out. I'm not sure it should go into an existing deck, but perhaps something new would have to be created. On a sidenote though, UU hurts as a CC.

[Luiggi]

Yeah, I totally agree that UU is still a bit of a stretch for some decks, especially multi-colored combo decks with tricky manabases. The card's power, however, might be enough to warrant an alternate build that could take advantage of it properly.

Luiggi

[warble]

Impulse versus this card . . . hmm.

1U vs UU

4 card search versus 3 card search

0 card advantage versus -1 card advantage

Instant versus Sorcery

These are the things that make a good card (the ones on the left)  and a bad card (the ones on the right)

In other, slower formats (where you empty your hand and have a virtually limitless supply of colored mana) this card is an amazing topdeck.  Because Insight is much better for control decks, only blue aggro can play Ideas Unbound.  Too many constraints, but it goes in my blue aggro casual decks (such as merfolk).  When blue decks that empty their hands become popular, so will Ideas Unbound.  I'm pretty sure suicide blue combo doesn't exist yet . . .

If it had 1 less blue mana, storm combo would drool for this.

Edit: No sleep and being at work make me type absolutely wrong card names.  *sighs* Sorry

[Ben Kossman]

It seems to have potential in deck like madness and has interesting synergy with Twincast(Blue Fork) as well. It's one of the
better search cards I've seen in a while. I think Tog would really like this card but I can't say for sure that it's better than Night's whisper.

[ELD]

I'm thinking this card has combo written all over it.  No facts to back that one up, but I like the idea of it in a deck running squee already such as dragon.  Usually card draw can be abused.  Hopefully we'll see a new deck based around this one. 

[Luiggi]

Insight versus this card . . . hmm.

1U vs UU

4 card search versus 3 card search

0 card advantage versus -1 card advantage

Instant versus Sorcery

You did mean Impulse, right? Insight is an enchantment from Tempest that lets you draw a card every time a Green spell is played...

The point is that if you run the card in a deck like a combo deck that plans on winning the turn that this is cast then the potential card disadvantage that this could bring is negated, making it really "0 card advantage vs. +2 card advantage". If you're comboing out I don't see that it's that big a deal that it's a sorcery, and while Impulse is a 4-card search, this is a 3-card draw, which is quite different. To me the biggest problem with this card is the double-blue, that's not always so easy to get for some combo decks, barring an Academy or Mox Sapphire.

Again, I'm not saying this will be playable in any deck. I'm wondering whether it could find a home in the right kind of deck, and to me that sounds like combo... Obviously you wouldn't be running this in, say, Control Slaver, over something like Thirst for Knowledge, and no one's really trying to make that claim. But in something like Dragon, as ELD pointed out, this could be really sick.

Luiggi

[Luiggi]

By the way, it's been confirmed that this card is a common, in case anybody cares, so they won't be hard to get.

Luiggi

[Ben Kossman]

It would be strong in High Tide,  mono-U Trix with AK/Deep Analysis, or Any Welder Based Deck really. The question is whether or not it's strong enough to stand next to TFK...

[Marton]

Why are people talking about this card having combo written all over it? If you plan to play it that way, and win the same turn, then meditate seems like a better choice. And BTW, theres also a card named 'three wishes' that sortof replaces the effect (it is much harder to use, but similar).

Personally i think the card is junk. It is card disadvantage. If you want to abuse it, you gotta 'tap out' to play what u have drawn, and in that case this means you are either playing aggro-control or combo. In both cases it seems like a very subpar card choice.

The only thing that could make it better is basically to play it as a replacement for careful study, but even so I still prefer careful study. It has interesting uses with  squee and deep analysis, but the decks playing this will probably have big problems getting UU online (just have a look at cerebral assassin for example).

[Pizzatog]

Since when is discarding at end of turn a bad thing in t1??? Ever hear of squee, reanimation, flashback, madness or welder? I like this card, but it needs to go into the right deck.

[Luiggi]

It would be strong in High Tide,  mono-U Trix with AK/Deep Analysis, or Any Welder Based Deck really. The question is whether or not it's strong enough to stand next to TFK...

I do like the idea of running it in High Tide, and that's something I'll have to look at for Legacy, where Solidarity is a great deck. It would have to go in the sorcery-version of it, though...

Luiggi

[Mixing Mike]

I'm thinking CA.  CA needs more good draw for them, and this is probably it.

[Dzy]

The problem with running this in Solidarity is that it is a sorcery, Solidartiy's key card, next to High Tide is Reset, which can only be played in your opponents turn. You win about 95% of the games you win in your opponents turn, just because of Reset. Or did you mean you wanted to play this card to set up the combo? Then I think there are better cards, like Meditate.

[Luiggi]

There are two separate versions of Solidarity that I know of, Dzy, the more popular and widely-used one that runs Resets and nothing but instants, and one that runs sorceries like Prosperity and as such doesn't run Resets (I don't have a decklist handy, but I know I saw one somewhere on The Source). I know the instant-speed version is better right now, but I'm wondering if the addition of this card to the sorcery-speed version won't make it a lot better. It obviously isn't too good in the instant-speed version, since Ideas Unbound is: a) a sorcery, b) card disadvantage, since we'd be using it in the turns prior to going off, which means that we'd always end up discarding 3 cards. I guess it's decent card selection, but even so, for instant-speed Solidarity there are better options, as you say. That's why my question was related to the sorcery-speed version.

Luiggi