10 Proxy War...TPS or Sensei Sensei

[KrA0nS]

I've been playing combo ever since I first started in vintage.  Unfortunitly the only time I'm able to play is online or in full proxy tourneys because I'm low on resources for the better cards.  I've played TPS and Sensei Sensei both multiple ammounts of time and have had good results with both of the decks.  I prefer TPS but I posted this to get your opinion on what deck would be more competative with the 10 Proxy setting we know today.

TPS-Aside from the power there really isant much to this deck to get except for Force of Will's and Duels.  I can get Forces over time but it's still burning a whole in my pocket and the Underground Sea's, Polluted Delta's, Strands, and Volcanic Island in hte deck are going to kill my bank account.  Proxying the power leaves you with 3 parts in my build, well a build I got off Morphling.de.  I can use that to proxy 2 Sea's and a Volcanic Island.  While the deck is good it still hurts not to have the duels.


Pro's
-The deck is most likly one of hte most resiliant form of combo that there is in T1, it's been T8'ing all over and is still got game after Workshop went downhill.
-The deck does have the ablity to go off on turn one but it can also prolong the game if it needs more time to set up some resiliance or just can't seem to go off yet.

Con's
-It's said that TPS lost it's game because of Workshop getting far less popular since hte restriction of Trini.
-While being one of the faster combo's, it can also be one of the slowest.


Sensei Sensei-This deck uses Force of Will and Mana Drain but a friend told me it does not need Duels so that's a plus, but Proxying the power will leave you with most likly 2 Mana Drian spots left and $200 is way to much for me to spend on 2 cards, I'd rather spend it elsewhere, like the zoo...   Anyway Drains are the main thing in this deck that it needs to run by and it has more rares in my looking at both builds, I'm not that resourceful so it's hard to even get crap rares.


Pro's
-People haev said this is the most resistant combo deck simply because it can go off with fewer or more of it's combo parts, you can go off with a Helm and 2 Senseis' and a Freeze in hand.
-This deck also has an aiblity to go for a longer game and delay until it can feel safe to succesfully go off without much of a response from the opponet.

Con's
-While Null Rod hurts combo horribly it completly shuts down this deck.
-It does haev the ability to go off fast but it's one of hte more slow combo decks to assemble, may take 2-3 turns.


So in your guy's opinion who wins the 10 Proxy War...TPS or Sensei Sensei

EDIT:

Example TPS:
// Lands
    2  Island
    1  Volcanic Island
    3  Underground Sea
    1  Tolarian Academy
    2  Swamp
    4  Polluted Delta
    1  Flooded Strand

// Creatures
    1  Darksteel Colossus

// Spells
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Wheel of Fortune
    1  Recoup
    1  Burning Wish
    1  Windfall
    1  Tinker
    2  Tendrils of Agony
    1  Mystical Tutor
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Cabal Ritual
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Jet
    4  Dark Ritual
    1  Memory Jar
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Lotus Petal
    1  Timetwister
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Mind's Desire
    1  Hurkyl's Recall
    1  Gifts Ungiven
    4  Force of Will
    4  Brainstorm
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Yawgmoth's Bargain
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Necropotence
    4  Duress

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1  Chain of Vapor
SB: 1  Massacre
SB: 1  Rebuild
SB: 1  Pyroclasm
SB: 2  Phyrexian Furnace
SB: 1  Night of Souls' Betrayal
SB: 1  Cabal Therapy
SB: 1  Engineered Explosives
SB: 1  Echoing Truth
SB: 1  Deep Analysis
SB: 1  Cranial Extraction
SB: 2  Claws of Gix



Example Sensei:
// Lands
    2  Island
    3  Flooded Strand
    1  Library of Alexandria
    2  Polluted Delta
    4  Tundra
    4  Underground Sea
    1  Tolarian Academy

// Creatures
    4  Academy Rector

// Spells
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    3  Thirst for Knowledge
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    4  Cabal Therapy
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Tendrils of Agony
    1  Time Walk
    1  Timetwister
    1  Gush
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Sapphire
    2  Helm of Awakening
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    4  Force of Will
    4  Sensei's Divining Top
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Future Sight
    1  Seal of Cleansing
    1  Yawgmoth's Bargain
    1  Ancestral Recall
    2  Brainstorm

No SB or Mana Drains for this build though.

[Hi-Val]

Seeing that you've given people less than a day to respond before bumping, I'd say you're off to a bad start here. Bumping is ALWAYS frowned upon.

I'd play TPS (and I can't imagine why I just said that) because to me, it seems a little better at 10 proxies than Sensei. Losing out on Drains is a big frown for breakfast. TPS is relatively unscathed and so I'd opt for playing it instead. Also, where is the Rebuild in that deck? That card is stupid good in TPS. I'd probably cut the red in TPS as well, or at least run Cunning Wish(es) and REB.

[KrA0nS]

I can understand why you want me to cut red and add a Wish, I did originally have the list just Black and Blue but then I wanted a Sorcery Outlet and Gifts for Recoup, Will, Ritual, Ritual is awsome.  But yah I can see where your coming from, so I should take out Burning Wish, Wheel of Fortune, and Recoup for Cunning Wish MD and what else?  Also I just play Recall over Rebuild because it cost 1 less mana.  But I can see how Rebuild would be better if it resolves allowing you to get rid of Chalice or something else not need and it's good against Aggro Workshop decks.

[KrA0nS]

Which deck?  TPS is The Perfect Storm, it's a combo deck that uses a bunch of spells and Yawgmoth's Will to make a hugh storm count into Tendrils of Agony.  Sensei Sensei uses Helm of Akwening Future Sight and 2 Sensei's Diving Tops to draw their deck, make a huge storm count and Tendrils or Brain Freeze.

[Freelancer]

Well I for one would play TPS because it can be done easier with 10 proxies, besides I always liked it more than Sensei Sensei (personal opinion though).

Rebuild also bounces your artifacts and cycles (which occasionally comes up with mystical/vamp. tutor), unless you see a lot of annoying 2 mana artifacts that make you pay more for your precious spells rebuild is superior.

[roche]

1. the deck listed as "Sensei, Sensei" is not even close to that of the before-named deck.
Sensei is a drain based combo/control deck much more optimal imho than the rector counterpart. imho, rector is made solely to get bargain and/or form of the dragon, much like it's cousin mystical tutor, which only gets will, ancestral and/or tinker.

2. Sensei, Sensei is somewhat easier to build proxy wise as drains and the 4 dual lands(obv power.. but..) are the hardest to get, which isnt a huge part of the deck.

3. Sensei is just a better deck than tps 1. because of it's control factor(w/ maindeck duress' obviously) and 2. because of it's amazing ability to come from drawing nothing > to winning in a single turn based on draws and such

4. <3 sensei

5. I think sensei would be a better call in the metagame due to its ability to adapt and outplay the metagame.

that is all

discuss?

[Freelancer]

1. the deck listed as "Sensei, Sensei" is not even close to that of the before-named deck.
Sensei is a drain based combo/control deck much more optimal imho than the rector counterpart. imho, rector is made solely to get bargain and/or form of the dragon, much like it's cousin mystical tutor, which only gets will, ancestral and/or tinker.

2. Sensei, Sensei is somewhat easier to build proxy wise as drains and the 4 dual lands(obv power.. but..) are the hardest to get, which isnt a huge part of the deck.

3. Sensei is just a better deck than tps 1. because of it's control factor(w/ maindeck duress' obviously) and 2. because of it's amazing ability to come from drawing nothing > to winning in a single turn based on draws and such

4. <3 sensei

5. I think sensei would be a better call in the metagame due to its ability to adapt and outplay the metagame.

that is all

discuss?

Where did you get the idea sensei sensei is easier to build? You need the drains without them the deck just doesn't function right anymore. And you need most of the proxies for the power (which is also needed), drains are expensive you know.

Sensei also gets hosed a lot easier than TPS, and TPS can go off earlier (which is a big plus). I'm still on the fence which deck is better, but it ain't as easy as you make it out to be.

How can you judge his metagame if you don't know his metagame?


Ps. Cut the claws of gix in the sideboard (TPS), your goal in the matchup is not to finish him off in the late game but in the early game (where you have the advantage). Oath has inevitability, you don't (eventually they will resolve a oath and deal with the claws, before than they will have outdrawn and outcountered you).
Much better sideboard cards against oath are: Misdirection or extra draw. There oath doesn't kill you untill turn 3 at the fastest with a nuts draw.

[Mixing Mike]

I've played both the Rector build and the more conventional builds of Sensei, and here's my conclusion;

Rector Top is inferior to the conventional build.

Why?  Well, Rectors don't really do anything on their own.  Generally, nobody will attack into it.  Rector does not have flying, which will not stop Rootwater Thieves from raping you in the bum-bum (taking out your Rector targets while you sit and pray for a Therapy).  Also, Cabal Therapy is just worse than Duress.  Yes it has synergy, but more often than not, it relies far too much on luck to ever really have a consistant level of play.

Playing with Rectors (and Therapies) are a bit too clunky.  You'd then be running 4 Rectors, 4 Therapies, Bargain, and 1 Sight is more 'bulky' cards than 3 Sights.

Mind you, when they get turn 2-3 Rector to get Bargain, it is quite good.  However, Sensei without Rectors can put a Sight into play by turns 2-3 easily, and probably has a higher turn 1 Sight percentage than the Rector Version with a turn 1 Sight/Bargain (4BB, 3WB, see the off color requirements here?).