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Marco
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« on: June 23, 2005, 07:01:03 pm » |
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This is a "top-down" design in that I started off with the card name, "Goblin Cleric Mocker", which came from Mark Rosewater's Mons Made Me Do It article on http://magicthegathering.com during Goblin Week. With the card name, I created the simple (too simple): Goblin Cleric Mocker R Creature -- Goblin 1/1 Protection from Clerics This was somewhat of a mirror to Foothill Guide. I considered adding Cycling  or, better yet, Cycling  . But it was still lacking. Then I became enamored with Goblin Wizard and thought the second ability would be great on a cheaper creature. So I came up with this: Goblin Cleric Mocker R Creature -- Goblin 1/1 Protection from Clerics R: Target creature gains protection from white until end of turn. Now, I don't think this is unreasonable, and even think it could/should be a common. However, the comparison can be made to Crimson Acolyte, which is a common with a casting cost of  {W}. Granted, protection from red is way better than protection from Clerics... Edit: I forgot to mention that if this is too good, I can make it "R: Target red creature gains protection from white until end of turn" or preferably "R: Target Goblin gains protection from white until end of turn". (Maybe "R: Target black or red creature gains protection from white until end of turn"?) |
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« Last Edit: July 23, 2005, 04:31:46 pm by Marco »
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Marco
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2005, 07:02:00 pm » |
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Current Wording:
Goblin Jester
R
Creature -- Goblin
1/1
R, Tap, Sacrifice a Goblin: Damage can't be prevented this turn.
"So, two clerics walk into a tavern..."
--Murkle, Goblin Jester
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« Last Edit: July 25, 2005, 12:05:01 am by Marco »
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Norm4eva
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2005, 07:23:11 pm » |
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Way undercosted. Probably at least 1RR; giving your team protection from Silver Knight/StP is pretty fucking good for RRR.
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Ephraim
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2005, 08:08:11 pm » |
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Protection from white isn't as bad as you're making it out to be, but more significantly, it isn't particularly red in flavour to be using protection. I admit that protection from white is a fairly well-entrenched red ability, but I don't think it should be able to divy it out at will as cheaply as this. If this were a white card giving protection from red, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. Since it's the other way around, I have to protest.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Marco
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2005, 09:12:10 pm » |
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What do you suggest?
How about:
Goblin Cleric Mocker
1R
Creature -- Goblin
1/1
Protection from Clerics
R: Damage can't be prevented this turn.
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« Last Edit: June 23, 2005, 09:25:42 pm by Marco »
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Matt
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2005, 11:33:38 am » |
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That's a good ability but it's maybe a little cheap. On the occasions where you'd want that you'd still always be willing to pay 1R for it.
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2005, 12:00:02 pm » |
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Am I the only one who thinks that name is utterly awful?
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To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
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Matt
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2005, 12:57:35 pm » |
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No, I assumed it was a placeholder.
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Norm4eva
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« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2005, 02:35:14 pm » |
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Protection from white isn't as bad as you're making it out to be, but more significantly, it isn't particularly red in flavour to be using protection. I admit that protection from white is a fairly well-entrenched red ability, but I don't think it should be able to divy it out at will as cheaply as this. If this were a white card giving protection from red, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. Since it's the other way around, I have to protest.
6 red cards in the history of Magic denotes well-entrenched? O_o Not a complaint, just an oddity. As stated, It's not the ability, it's the cheapness. Up the cost or make it tap or something. Goblin Wizard's not exactly a benchmark for the new standard. Red is the color of chaos, and aside from weird cards like Goblin Piledriver - which only had pro-blue to give Psychatog something to think about - chaos and protection are a little bit like oil and.. space bananas? |
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Marco
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2005, 11:08:34 am » |
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Bram was right, flavour-based top-down design is not our strong point. As stated in my original post, the card name Goblin Cleric Mocker is kind of the point of this card. It is not a placeholder.
Goblin Cleric Mocker may have been a playtest name in the article I refer to in my original post; however, Rosewater refers to them as "Goblins that never saw print. Yet." And I don't think Goblin Cleric Mocker is any worse than some of the card names that have seen print (or made it to the Master List for that matter).
If the card name needs to change, fine, but we haven't even finished the card yet. I can relinquish giving my creatures protection from white (although it was pretty sweet using Goblin Wizard in my casual deck and giving my little red army protection from white...)
I do want to use the "Damage can't be prevented this turn" ability and I am looking for the appropriate cost.
Goblin Cleric Mocker
R
Creature -- Goblin
1/1
R, Tap: Damage can't be prevented this turn.
He is mocking the clerics because a common ability of clerics is "Prevent the next X damage that would be dealt to target creature or player this turn"...
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Matt
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« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2005, 01:10:59 pm » |
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And I don't think Goblin Cleric Mocker is any worse than some of the card names that have seen print (or made it to the Master List for that matter). That name is really, really awful, so if you think there's worse in our lists, PLEASE let me know so we can correct this! |
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asmoranomardicodais
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« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2005, 01:18:30 pm » |
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It's not as bad as raving oni slave, by any means. Keep Goblin Cleric Mocker, I like the name.
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Marco
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« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2005, 02:34:57 pm » |
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I scanned the Master List rather quickly and limited my search to creatures with similar names: Dwarven Supervisor, Skeletal Thug, Musclebound Bear, Village Idiot, Junior Librarian,
Facetious Spy, Old Kramburious. I think that if you can have these, you can have a Goblin Cleric Mocker. But I'm not 100% behind the name, I'm open to changing it.
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Matt
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« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2005, 07:30:43 pm » |
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I'm not against the concept of a goblin who goes around mocking clerics, just the name. It would be fine if you called it "goblin jester" or something and made the artwork and flavor text showing him mocking some clerics, but that name is really atrocious. It's on par with making cards called "Big Red Rare Dragon" or "Black Kill Spell" or "Lifegain Spell #1". It's only nominally a name at all.
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Marco
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« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2005, 10:12:53 am » |
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Alright, I'll change it to Goblin Jester. What about the casting cost/cost of the ability?
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Matt
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« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2005, 10:24:23 am » |
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Eh, looks fine. When a player wants this ability he's going to be willing to pay almost any price for it, so the card's playability isn't really impacted by its mana cost. Whta if the activation cost was " ,  , sacrifice a Goblin" like Goblin Soothsayer? |
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Marco
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« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2005, 04:12:51 pm » |
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At first I thought " , , Sacrifice a Goblin: Damage can't be prevented this turn" was too steep of an activation cost. However, this is a potentially a game ending effect, allowing a player to completely negate the Circle of Protection: Red or the Story Circle that was keeping his or her army at bay, something you'd gladly sacrifice a Goblin for. Instead of Goblin Soothsayer, how about Goblin Goblin Chirurgeon: "Sacrifice a Goblin: Damage can't be prevented this turn" - too good? Either way, it can sacrifice itself, so I guess your suggestion is fine. Change made. |
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Godder
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« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2005, 08:28:14 pm » |
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Looks absolutely fine to me. Compared to Flaring Pain, it seems better when you don't need it, while not as good when you do.
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That's what I like about you, Laura - you're always willing to put my neck on the line. |
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Matt
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« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2005, 10:29:07 pm » |
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It wouldn't be a bad idea to give it some flavor text explaining the "mocking clerics" part.
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Marco
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« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2005, 07:03:41 pm » |
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It wouldn't be a bad idea to give it some flavor text explaining the "mocking clerics" part.
Okay, but unfortunately I'm not the person to come up with the flavour text. Any takers? |
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Ephraim
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« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2005, 08:30:24 pm » |
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"So, two clerics walk into a tavern..."
--Murkle, Goblin Jester
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Marco
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« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2005, 08:45:45 pm » |
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"So, two clerics walk into a tavern..."
--Murkle, Goblin Jester
Sweet! How about something like, "Have you heard the one about the two Clerics that walked into the tavern...?" |
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Ephraim
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« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2005, 09:15:33 pm » |
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I'm not crazy about making it longer. I think the best way to retain the humour in this flavour text is to KISS: Keep It Simple, Stupid. The more text is there, the less impact it's going to have.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Marco
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« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2005, 09:34:46 pm » |
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"So, two clerics walk into a tavern..." just doesn't seem complete or correct?
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Matt
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« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2005, 11:53:23 pm » |
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Heh. Well, as much as I hate those kinds of flavor text, it's JUST the kind of thing Wizards woudl do, so I can't really argue against it if you guys want it.
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Marco
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« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2005, 12:05:38 am » |
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Change made. What does everyone else think about the flavour text?
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dandan
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« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2005, 02:52:23 am » |
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Gotta luv clerics. They start on their knees before you do anything to them!
If they want holy, I'll give em holes...
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Playing bad cards since 1995
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Marco
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« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2005, 08:48:27 pm » |
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24 hour clock.
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Matt
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« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2005, 12:32:15 pm » |
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Closed and added.[/color]
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