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Author Topic: Dimensional Shift.  (Read 3073 times)
Killertree
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« on: July 05, 2005, 12:40:02 am »

I know this card is way too powerful, is there any way to make it doable?

Dimensional shift
WUBRG
Sorcery

Until the end of turn, you may play cards you own outside of the game as though they were in your hand.

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Matt
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2005, 01:56:25 am »

Please read the rules, especially concerning current wording posts and the need for explanation which shows you've thought through the implications of your card.
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Matt
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2005, 12:28:01 pm »

OKay this guy got banned. Anyone want to take over this card or should I lock it up?
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2005, 12:58:51 pm »

It's certainly interesting... but I can't think of a way to do it that wouldn't be immensely powerful.  Wishes only get one card for a reason.  To be able to play with your entire sideboard until the end of the turn for 5 mana isn't exactly reasonable.
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asmoranomardicodais
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2005, 12:40:38 pm »

You could do  a memory jar thing, and remove your hand from the game until end of turn to use your sideboard as your hand till end of turn.
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Matt
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2005, 12:44:12 pm »

I think five mana is a little low for this cost. It would ruin casual play (although that's kind of self-regulating), where "cards you own outside the game" means whatever's in your shoebox. It could work at Coalition Victory's cost of 3WUBRG
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2005, 01:38:31 pm »

One of the ideas that I had for an alternate take on the idea is that you could switch the library and sideboard. I'm not sure if it would last just until end of turn or if it would be permanent. I'm also not sure how to word that.

The reason why I'm suggesting this is so you also need a way to draw cards (to access more than one card from the sideboard). The reasoning behind the switch being permanent is because I would hate to have just my sideboard as a deck, as my sideboards are generally bad, with a bunch of cards that are extrememely match-intensive. It could also lead to a Doomsday-style deck where you Dimensional Shift, draw some cards (off Wheel or similar), and win with those cards. I could also imagine this might be situationally usable in Dragon, where you gain access to a whole host of unique kills.

The flavor idea is that you are switching dimensions to get to the lesser-used stuff (as in a secret dimensional cache for lesser-used stuff, which is the possible flavor reason behind the sideboard), and only have access to it.
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dandan
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2005, 03:36:36 pm »

Couldn't you let it get any 1 card? It is then a multicolour Death Wish with the wish for death. That's fine for casual and the CC should prevent any mishaps in constructed/limited anyway. How many cards do you actually need from your sideboard to win anyway?
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Matt
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« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2005, 08:38:38 pm »

I like that idea a lot. I'm adopting this thread as my own now.

Current wording:


Dimensional Shift
{W}{U}{B}{R}{G}
Sorcery
Remove your library from the game. Put your sideboard on top of your library in any order.


Is there a way to word that which won't make casual players' (for whom "all cards" means your entire collection) heads explode?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2005, 11:25:17 pm by Matt » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2005, 08:51:11 pm »

I like that idea a lot. I'm adopting this thread as my own now.

Current wording:


Dimensional Shift
{W}{U}{B}{R}{G}
Sorcery
Exchange your library with all cards you own not in the game. Shuffle your library.


Is there a way to word that which won't make casual players' (for whom "all cards" means your entire collection) heads explode?

No meaningful way. After all, the Wishes & Ring of Mar'uf needed special rules made around them just so that they couldn't draw from one's entire collection. You could make it considerably more powerful (to a casual player) and have it say, "Exchange your library with any number of cards you own not in the game. Shuffle your library." That would allow a casual player to bring in a second deck, but would still only allow a tournament player to get cards from his sideboard.
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« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2005, 09:15:25 pm »

How about:

Choose a number between 0 and 60. Exchange your library with exactly the chosen number of cards you own from outside the game. Then shuffle your library.

The 60 can be 15 or 75 or 200 (combos with Battle of Wits) or any number, really.

Actually, a 60-card tournament Battle of Wits deck would be pretty cool...
« Last Edit: July 06, 2005, 09:24:15 pm by Marco » Logged
Matt
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« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2005, 09:39:55 pm »

Really I want to just say "Exchange your library with your sideboard." Can we say that? If the casual folks open a card they can't use, is that such a big deal? Lord knows the tournament people put up with a lot of fatties and One With Nothings for the casual player's sake.
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« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2005, 09:50:44 pm »

Humph. I really liked my idea. There has been no precedent for a Magic card mentioning the sideboard in its text box that I am aware of (other than Jester's Sombrero and Look at Me, I’m the DCI from Unglued). However, I don't see a problem with it:

Exchange your library and sideboard. Then shuffle your library.
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2005, 12:52:26 am »

Why do you need to shuffle your library? Is it a power reason at all, or is it something dealing with the templating?

As is, I think that exchanging library and sideboard is a strong drawback, as you add a decking clock (15 turns until you deck yourself, less if you cast any draw spells). You also are stuck in a position of having cards that are matchup-specific (which is what a good amount of SB space goes to) that are either dead or subpar against the deck that you are facing. It also requires some draw to be closer to the original idea of being the Yawgmoth's Will to the Wishes' Regrowth.

I like the possibility of being able to cast this in a Doomsday-style deck, and I really feel that there isn't a huge need for the shuffling of the library.
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2005, 01:41:36 am »

How about modifying it to only cards of a certain color ? Have the player choice like 40-60 RANDOM cards of a particular color to be their new library? And have all their lands produce only mana of the chosen color? Also have it negate thier sideboard.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2005, 02:05:35 am by Odern420 » Logged
Ephraim
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« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2005, 02:00:36 am »

If the casual folks open a card they can't use, is that such a big deal?

I think it's a big deal. There are two reasons why I don't like this solution. 1. You're right that casual players can't play this. Sideboards are almost never part of casual Magic. I don't mean that many casual players don't use them. I mean that many casual players play in environments where having a sideboard makes a deck non-casual by definition. There's a difference between being incapable of playing a card and being unwilling to do so. It isn't like One With Nothing. It's more like Jester's Sombrero. 2. Referring to a sideboard on a card breaks the Fourth Wall even worse than referring to the stack. The stack, at least, is part of the rules of Magic: The Gathering. Sideboards are part of the DCI Floor rules.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2005, 02:04:05 am by Ephraim » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2005, 02:35:48 pm »

Ephraim, I disagree. Almost everyone single casual player I have played with (including me) does the following. If you are using wishes, you make a wish sideboard for your deck, and never use it as a normal sideboard, only as 15 cards you can wish for. If your not using wishes, you don't use a sideboard like this. If casual players want to use this card, they make a 15 card sideboard for use with this card, and use it as such. I don't see a conflict of interests at all.

On another note though, you can't exchange the library with the sideboard, because then you'd have a forty card sideboard, and you would be disqualified for having a sideboard that is too big. You need to fix that somehow.
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Matt
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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2005, 04:16:04 pm »

Okay I fixed the 40 cards sideboard thing.
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« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2005, 04:29:55 pm »

This is cool - but isn't it truly and utterly unplayable? Surely people would put the cards they want into their deck if they wanted them, not leave them in the sideboard. This is only remotely useable with the Wishes, and even that's a long shot.
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asmoranomardicodais
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« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2005, 09:50:06 pm »

Yeah, five colored might be a bit much. What if it were an artifact with the casting cost and activation of mindslaver?
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Matt
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« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2005, 11:03:13 pm »

Well, primarily because Dimensional Shift isn't the name of an artifact.
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« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2005, 02:24:49 pm »

So change its name to dimesional shifter  Razz
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Matt
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« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2005, 11:28:40 pm »

Okay, I figure WUBRG isn't going to be fueling any degenerate combo, so now you can stack your library.
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