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Author Topic: U/W Vial Fish  (Read 1958 times)
Reverend
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Reverend456
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« on: August 10, 2005, 04:48:32 pm »

Hi, I am somewhat new to type 1 and posting. So please understanding I might not pick the smartest ideas for my build, but that is why I am posting my build so I can get some good advice Smile

U/W Vial Fish

Spells
4 Force of Wills
4 Stand Stills
3 Swords to Plowshare
1 Misdirection
1 Ancestral Recall   (proxy)

Creatures

4 Meddling Mage (proxy)
4 Spiketail Hatchling
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Weathered Wayfarer
2 True Believer
2 Icatian Javelineers

Artifact

3 Aether Vial
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Black Lotus (proxy)
1 Mox Pearl (proxy)
1 Mox Sapphire (proxy)

Lands

4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Faerie Conclave
1 Library of Alexandra (proxy)
1 Strip Mine
1 Island
1 Plains

Side Board

4 Stifle
4 Energy Flux
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Propaganda
1 Swords to Plowshare

My deck works like all the other Vial Fish decks that I know of. Small little creatures with really good abilities ( Think that is what fish is suppose to be)

I Think I could use better cards in my Side Boards but this is what I have for now. Stifle for Storm Decks. Energy Flux for workshop or affinity decks. Tormod for graveyard hate. Propaganda for Beatdown and Goblins. 1 Swords for wielders and aggro.

This is my Vial Fish build and Thank you in advance for advice.
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Frostmage18
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2005, 09:20:28 pm »

This deck looks very effective. But, you may want to make it a bit quicker just in case you can't get out the vials. You can add flying men to it or even manta riders(I think that's what those merfolk were called) and also, just in case you may want a bit more counterspells in that mix. I cab see why you put those weathered wayfarers. But, you'll only be able to use it when you're opponent has more mana than you. I'd take that out maybe and add either flying men or manta riders.
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tidal kraken
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2005, 01:12:35 am »

I would advise against manta raiders. The fact that you have to pay to give it flying hurts your tempo. Flying men would work though. It allows for turn 2 ninja.

I, personally, don't like spiketail. I've lost games where I wished it had been something bigger. The build in daze hasn't really ever came into play. I'm not sure what should go in it's place, but I'd run something over it.
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jackpot
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2005, 02:20:23 pm »

play 4 umazawa's jitte. This card is so game breaking its stupid. I'd actually say that it is much more important than the vial actually. Together, it's crazy. I also reccomend cloud of faries. That may be the wrong name. The 1/1 flyer that lets you untap 2 lands when it comes into play. You have to play it from your hand to get the untap mechanic to work, however. There is errata on the card. Waterfront bouncer is better than wethered wayfarer. Possibly better than the javelinerrs. The bouncer can deal with DSC and a welder. Javelineer can only deal with welder. I understand that you are trying to play the ninja off a one drop, but there are better guys to play. I think you are playing too many lands. I'd run 20 at most. With the ninjas, ancestral, and standstills you will be drawing into land. No disenchants? No chalice of the void? So here's what I'd do:
-1 misdirection -1 library of Alexandria +2 Jitte
-2 javelineers +2 waterfront bouncer
-4 spiketails +4 cloud of faries

a chalice set at two will ruin your day, but the aether vial will help. And 4 jitte is incredible. I got wrecked by jitte a few weeks ago. Between the swords, bouncer, and jitee opposing creatures are hard pressed to deal. Try it out.
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Engine_number_9
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2005, 11:32:06 am »

I think that you should cut True Believer. The card is amazing but it cost WW. You won't want to have to fetch WW early. 
Don't play 4 Jitte - It's legendary, play 3 instead
There is no reason not to play 4 Vials. The card is extremely good.
Since you don't play crucible I don't think that Wayfarer makes the cut either.

So this is what I'd change:
- 2 Wayfarer
- 2 True Believer
- 2 Faerie Conclave (they suck and you have Aether Vial)
+ 1 Vial
+ 4 chalice (it's a must-use card w vial)
+ 1 Jitti
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warble
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2005, 12:55:44 pm »

Since you are new to Magic, I will voice the standard concern for any fish deck not packing null rod:

You need heavier disruption maindeck or you won't win.

One possible route towards this is to maindeck Null Rod.  The presence of Energy Flux sideboard instead of Null Rod is a dead giveaway that you're using old tech.  Once you start considering null rod and it's effect on your gameplan a lot of things will begin to shift.

Another possible route is maindeck daze and maindeck stifle.  Although balancing daze and stifle with a slightly more mana-intensive fish version is difficult, it will be more than worth the effort you put into the tweak.  Specifically, your turn 1 and 2 will become much stronger with plays that aren't "wayfarer, go" or "vial, go".  When you start dropping vial on turn 3 because your first two turns were just screwing with your opponent, you're doing fish the justice it deserves.

Finally, you can probably switch out one or even both of the faerie conclaves.  Fish's tactic is not to function as landstill, and the importance of a turn 1/2 play is overlooked when you play conclave.  Faerie conclave is a very powerful card, but in vintage it has practically phased itself out in favor of daze+islands and fetchlands.  Other formats can afford a slight tempo hit to drop a 2/1 flying land, but in vintage I am hard pressed to play any land (even boseiju) that comes into play tapped.

One last thing, the lack one one-drops makes your ninjas sad.  Flying men were awesome last waterbury, and if you expect ninjas to function correctly they really want to be out in the first couple of turns.
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Moxlotus
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2005, 01:30:51 am »

Fish decks are greatly helped by Time Walk.  It is the ultimate Aggro-control card.
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dend51
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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2005, 08:25:34 am »

I would have to say that the first thing i notice is that you are only playing with 9 proxies? Time walk is huge in fish, that should be your tenth proxie. These are some of the changes i can see making or at least looking harder at:

-2 Swords
-2 Wayfarer
-2 True believer
-2 Conclave
-4 Spiketails
-1 Missdirection

+3 Rootwater Thiefs
+2 Waterfront Bouncers
+2 Seal of removal (or other similiar spells)
+3 Mana Leaks
+1 Stifle mainboarded(or keep the missdirection)
+1 Vail
+1 Timewalk

Rootwater Thiefs are huge, you can hurt alot of decks, yes it is mana heavy to activate all the abilities, but if you are playing with Jitte and other removal spells you will hopefully be able to get through sometimes without having to make him flying. To go through you oppenents library is one of the best abilities. This card can take down oath and combo decks. It can really hurt most decks in the format. The only ones that are not really hurt by this card are pure aggro decks. As for the rest of my suggestions they have been mostly explained already.
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_Conca_
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« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2005, 06:52:17 am »

This is my list:

Spells

4 Force of Will
4 Stand Stills
3 Swords to Plowshare
1 Misdirection
1 ancerstrall recal

Creatures

4 Meddling Mage
4 Spiketail Hatchling
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Icatian Javelineers

Artifact

4 Aether Vial
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire

Lands

4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Library of Alexandra
1 Strip Mine
3 Island
1 Plains

Side Board

4 Stifle
4 Energy Flux
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Misdirection
1 Swords to Plowshare
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