Great Auk (+ new keyword mechanic)

[Ephraim]

Great Auk
{G}
Creature -- Fish Beast
3/2

Pack 1 -- Great Auk has islandwalk.
Pack 2 -- Great Auk gets +1/+1.
Pack 3 -- Great Auk can't be the target of spells or abilities.

***

Pack X -- Y is a static ability meaning "If you control X or more other creatures that share a creature type with this creature, then Y."

This card was born from a discussion with Matt over whether or not I could actually create a serious "penguin" card. Matt pointed out that there are basically two notable attributes to penguins. One, they swim, but do not fly (Hence the designation as a "Fish Beast" -- After all, what better describes a fish but a creature that swims but does not fly?) Two, where there's one penguin, there's a lot of penguins. That led to the creation of the Pack mechanic. The Great Auk is an extinct member of the penguin family that is essentially just a very large penguin. For this card, I would like to keep all three Pack abilities, but other creatures possessing this mechanic could easily have just one pack ability.

[Ephraim]

Current Wording:

Great Auk
{2}{G}
Creature -- Penguin Beast
2/2

Pack 2 -- Great Auk has islandwalk.
Pack 3 -- Great Auk gets +1/+1.
Pack 4 -- Great Auk can't be the target of spells or abilities.

[Matt]

I disagree with the creature type. It should totally be Penguin Beast!

Also, you misremember me - I said their notable attributes were the fact that they come in large numbers and that they slide on their bellies into the water.

[asmoranomardicodais]

I think pack is a great keyword ability, espcially if it is in the same set as cascade. Then we have two keyword mechanics; one that only works on creatures, one only on spells. More than that, both deal with haivng multiples of the same thing; Cascade makes more copies of a spell, pack rewards you for having a lot of the same creatures. Going with the theme, we could have a set named: The Hordes of Ulgoltha or something similar. Anyways, I want matt to give pack its own thread, so we can add it to new keywords.

As for the creature itself, make it a penguin. As well, we NEED to make penguins a subtheme. We should also have some penguins who are rewarded for being blue or having blue friends, since then we could make the card that Olle Rade tried to submit to Wizards as his card to make:

2UU
Enchantment
All Penguins are blue.


Anyway, I am getting way beyond this thread. In summary:

Pack-Awesome
Penguins-Crazy Awesome
This Card-Cool, though it should focus more on penguins.

[dandan]

Great Auk has Tap, Swallow very large fish (destroy target fish)

Note that Dandan is not a fish despite being a fish. I assume Great Auk is scared off by the boats.

I like the Pack keyword. Some creatures (wolves and hyenas spring to mind) should get very nasty if there is a pack of them. At present only Slivers, Rats and those weird Mammoths from Ice Age do interesting pack things.

[Matt]

Don't forget Aurochs!

[asmoranomardicodais]

I think he meant Aurochs by "weird mammoth thing", even though the Aurochs are buffalo or something.

[Matt]

"Aaaahhh my friends...but it's not just ANY cow. No sireee...It's the cow...the grandfather of the entire domestic bovine race...Bos primigenius...the Aurochs."

"They are but a little less than Elephants in size, and are of the species, color, and form of a bull. Their strength is very great, and also their speed. They spare neither man nor beast that they see. They cannot be brought to endure the sight of men, nor be tamed, even when taken young. The people who take them in pitfalls assiduously destroy them; and young men harden themselves in this labour, and exercise themselves in this kind of chase; and those who have killed a great number - the horns being publicly exhibited in evidence of the fact - obtain great honour. The horns, in amplitude, shape and species, differ much from the horns of our oxen. They are much sought after; and after having been edged with silver at their mouths they are used for drinking vessels at great feasts."

[xthexpunisherx]

I know its a rules nightmare but I think if you have a pack of somthing Banding has to be part of its ability I mean come on a Pack of Banding Penguins??? BRILLIANT!

[dandan]

How dare you! No self-respecting Penguin would band with a Polar Bear (at least not more than once). These need that most underused of all abilities

BANDS WITH OTHER

I also think Snow-covered Islandwalk is in order

P.S. What can be weirder to a a mammoth than a buffalo?

These guys are going to end up with more abilities than Morphling!!

[Ephraim]

Enough with the penguin jokes. Yes, this is is a penguin, which makes it intrinsically funny, but it's also a serious card. So far, it seems that people like the mechanic. What about the application of the mechanic on this card? Obviously, this is intended to be a "flagship" card for the mechanic, so although three instances of Pack may be excessive in general, I'd like this one card to have it that way.

[dandan]

OK, serious stuff.

I don't see the logic of untargetability at Pack 3. Since when couldn't you hit a pack of flightless birds with a Fireball? Bands with other is far more logical and makes combat with these fat birds very tricky but you can Terror, burn, bounce, and pacify them.

Regarding pack animals and general size of these dudes, wouldn't 2G and 2/2 be better? Surely a lone penguin wouldn't take out a Juggernaut or a War Mammoth? This would make them far more playable but a pack of banding 3/3 penguins is no joke.

A 'call' ability similar to Embermage Goblin would greatly help the mechanic as it would make it far more likely you would use the Pack ability. This would take it up to 4 mana for a 2/2. I'm not sure if there is room but this is soooooo complimentary to the Pack theme that I think it is necessary. I don't think the call ability should be a Pack ability since a lone Penguin would call its little head off to attract company.

[RichardD]

I think pack is a great keyword ability, espcially if it is in the same set as cascade. Then we have two keyword mechanics; one that only works on creatures, one only on spells. More than that, both deal with haivng multiples of the same thing; Cascade makes more copies of a spell, pack rewards you for having a lot of the same creatures. Going with the theme, we could have a set named: The Hordes of Ulgoltha or something similar. Anyways, I want matt to give pack its own thread, so we can add it to new keywords.

As for the creature itself, make it a penguin. As well, we NEED to make penguins a subtheme. We should also have some penguins who are rewarded for being blue or having blue friends, since then we could make the card that Olle Rade tried to submit to Wizards as his card to make:

2UU
Enchantment
All Penguins are blue.


Anyway, I am getting way beyond this thread. In summary:

Pack-Awesome
Penguins-Crazy Awesome
This Card-Cool, though it should focus more on penguins.

iirc it was Monsieur Ruel who submitted the penguin cards

[Ephraim]

I think I am going to knock this down to 2/2 for {G}. When I first perused the wikipedia article on them, I noticed that they were the largest of the auks, which I misread as being the largest of the penguins. It turns out they were actually smaller than modern Emperor Penguins. (They can still take out one of Dominaria's Ferocious grizzlies!) The reason why Pack 3 grants untargetability is because pack animals tend to cluster together for protection so that no single member of the pack is vulnerable. It is slightly silly that four Great Auks could so protect each other, but if this Great Auk is hanging with its buddies Hystrodon, Krosan Tusker, and Arc-Slogger, I'd say that it's pretty well defended!

[dandan]

Don't you like the 'Bands with other' idea? To me it makes more sense than untargetability. I also think I'd prefer it to cost 3G but have the ability to get other copies like Embermage Goblin. If it doesn't have this those cool Pack abilities are unlikely to happen too often.

[Ephraim]

Sorry, Dandan, but I don't like it at all. If I were going to do anything, I would just let it gain plain, ordinary "banding" and be done with it. I'd like, however, to avoid using anachronistic abilities. They no longer support banding and I'm going to stick by that decision. As far as the fetch ability goes, I think that this would get to use its pack abilities often. It isn't looking for other Great Auks or other (Penguin Beasts.) It's looking for (Penguins) and (Beasts.) There are plenty of Beasts in print to ensure that somebody dedicated to the purpose will get Pack abilities fairly often.

[Ephraim]

24 Hour Clock

[Jacob Orlove]

I think pack would be a LOT easier to understand if you added 1 to all the numbers and just made it "if you control X or more creatures".

[Ephraim]

I considered doing that, but then I ran into the problem of "Pack 1" being a nonsense ability. I reasoned that avoiding the number 1 would be psychologically off-putting.

[Jacob Orlove]

People are going to look at the number and just assume that it's the number of creatures you need to have out, though--just look at the comments in your alpha wolf thread.

[Ephraim]

I have decided to follow Jacob's suggestion. The pack mechanic now counts the creature, itself. I have noted this here and in the thread that was started in the "Set in Progress" subforum. 24 Hour Clock.

[dandan]

I'm not sure if the Pack description makes sense with one creature in play. How can it share a creature type with itself?

I agree that Pack 2 makes more sense as meaning 2 Penguins in play but I think you need some rewording.

[Ephraim]

I'm not sure if the Pack description makes sense with one creature in play. How can it share a creature type with itself?

I agree that Pack 2 makes more sense as meaning 2 Penguins in play but I think you need some rewording.

Normally, I would agree with you, but Konda's Banner suffers from the same wording problem. Nonetheless, they printed it and clearly support that the equipped creature gets +2/+2 because it shares both a colour and a creature type with itself.

[Ephraim]

24 Hour Clock

[Anusien]

Can you write up a thread explaining Pack and get it stickyed the way cascade did, or at least just sticky this thread?  Makes it easier for newcomers and people who missed this thread to understand Pack.

[Jacob Orlove]

Can you write up a thread explaining Pack and get it stickyed the way cascade did, or at least just sticky this thread?  Makes it easier for newcomers and people who missed this thread to understand Pack.

It's in the Set in Progress forum.

[Bram]

Closed and added.