Phyrexian Dreadnaught HARDCASTED!

[LotusHead]

Phyrexian Dreadnought
1   
Artifact Creature   
12/12   
Trample
If Phyrexian Dreadnought would come into play, sacrifice any number of creatures with total power 12 or greater instead. If you do, put Phyrexian Dreadnought into play. If you don’t, put it into its owner’s graveyard. 

I know that this card has been errated a lot, but this is the current Oracle text.

An opponent hardcast his/her Dreadnaught, with an active Welder in play, and did Welder tricks to weld out said Dreadnaught and weld in Trinisphere.
This seems incorrect to me.

Just need confirmation: 1) Dreadnaught does not enter play at all unless the 12 toughness worth of creatures is sacrificed, right?
                                 2) The player cannot choose to sac "zero" creatures, and thus save his Welder, right?
                                     I thought the player must fullfill the requirement as much as he/she can.
                                     This is what I understood from earlier dealings with Dreadnaught, but the current wording still seems ambiguous.

In short: Hardcasting Dreadnaught=bad, right? Thanks in advance.

[Komatteru]

An opponent hardcast his/her Dreadnaught, with an active Welder in play, and did Welder tricks to weld out said Dreadnaught and weld in Trinisphere.
This seems incorrect to me.

Just need confirmation: 1) Dreadnaught does not enter play at all unless the 12 toughness worth of creatures is sacrificed, right?
                                 2) The player cannot choose to sac "zero" creatures, and thus save his Welder, right?
                                     I thought the player must fullfill the requirement as much as he/she can.
                                     This is what I understood from earlier dealings with Dreadnaught, but the current wording still seems ambiguous.

In short: Hardcasting Dreadnaught=bad, right? Thanks in advance.

Yes, Dreadnaught does not come into play unless you sac the creatures.  You cannot Stifle the CIP ability with the Oracle wording.  With the original wording, you could respond to the CIP trigger, and you cannot do that anymore.

You have to sacrifice all the creatures you have until you get to 12.  If you get there, then the dreadnaught comes into play.  If you don't, all those creatures and the Dreadnaught go to the yard.  You do as much as you can, just like if you cast Intuition with 1 or 2 cards remaining in your library.  You take all you can.

[Jacob Orlove]

So not only would they be unable to weld out the dreadnought, but they would in fact have to sacrifice the welder too.

[BurningIce]

So by the same token, if you have a welder in play and so does your opponent, and he has a dreadnought in his graveyard, what a great way to get rid of one of his artifacts, and his welder.

[Fubar]

Is it because the oracle wording states "would come into play" that you can't use the stifle?

[LotusHead]

Is it because the oracle wording states "would come into play" that you can't use the stifle?

Stifle counters triggered or activated abilities.

Triggered abilities always has "At, When, or Whenever" on them.
Activated abilities always have a colon in them. Cost: Effect.

"If" and "would" don't cut it.  It's the above 3 words, and the colon thing, only.

[Nibble]

Is it because the oracle wording states "would come into play" that you can't use the stifle?

Stifle counters triggered or activated abilities.

Triggered abilities always has "At, When, or Whenever" on them.
Activated abilities always have a colon in them. Cost: Effect.

"If" and "would" don't cut it.  It's the above 3 words, and the colon thing, only.

Exactly. Abilities worded such as Dreadnought, that being 'If x would happen, do y instead' are replacement effects.

So by the same token, if you have a welder in play and so does your opponent, and he has a dreadnought in his graveyard, what a great way to get rid of one of his artifacts, and his welder.

Yep. And unless he has 12 power on the board, the Dreadnought goes back too, so you can do it again.

[spawn]

Ive been told by a judge that as long as you cant sacrifice for 12, you dont sacrifice anything.

/spawn

[Jebus]

Ive been told by a judge that as long as you cant sacrifice for 12, you dont sacrifice anything.

/spawn

Please stop spamming the forum with incorrect answers.  Thank you.