Gifts v. Uba Stax (long matchup discussion)

[PucktheCat]

This post was written about a week ago, but I have held onto it because both Steve (Smmenen) and Vroman had some influence on the ideas I am presenting, and it didn’t seem fair to either of them to break tech they played a role in developing just before GenCon.

The key matchup in the current metagame is Mana Drain control vs. Stax.  There are many possible combinations that fall in this general description: everything from Oath v. CronStax to Control Slaver v. 5c Welder Stax.  I would like to focus, for a moment, one of the possibilities: Meandeck Gifts v. Uba Stax.  It is a matchup that I have some tournament experience with but, probably more importantly, I have tested the matchup a huge amount.  If you play from time to time at Vroman’s shop you quickly realize that simply accepting a loss to Uba Stax is a quick way to get home early enough to watch the Late Show.

For reference:

Meandeck Gifts (a standard build)
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Misdirection
4 Brainstorm
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Merchant Scroll
1 Rebuild
1 Echoing Truth
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tinker

1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Recoup
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Burning Wish

1 Darksteel Colossus

3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Lotus Petal

Uba Stax (Vroman’s Chicago build)
3 Uba Mask
4 Smokestack
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Null Rod
1 Trinisphere

1 Wheel of Fortune

4 Goblin Welder
2 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Duplicant
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Sundering Titan

4 Bazaar of Baghdad

4 Mishra’s Workshop
5 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault

The matchup with Uba Stax is not an easy one for the Gifts player.  Stax in general, and Uba Stax in particular, are built to attack the “T1-nessâ€? of a deck.  They feed on decks that are dependent on the mana acceleration and broken draw the format offers.  There is no deck out there right now that is more vulnerable to this kind of attack than Gifts.  Gifts gameplan reads like a list of the most powerful cards in Vintage.  Even to win, the deck virtually requires a Mox or other artifact mana, either to sac to Tinker or to generate storm count for Tendrils.  Control Slaver can just Drain a Smokestack, drop a Trike and beat for 4-5 turns, never getting a third mana on the table.  Gifts needs to break the mana lock to win.  Nonetheless, the matchup is not impossible.  With careful planning and execution you can compete.

There are two parts to beating Uba Stax with MG.  First, you have to make card choices that are favorable in the matchup.  Second, you have to make the right in game decisions vs. the deck.  In my opinion the second is more important than the first, but I think certain maindeck and sideboard changes are essential to maximize your success.

I.   Card Choices

Uba Stax is a resource denial deck, and a very good one.  Uba Mask is effectively a Chains of Mephistopheles that just happens to combo with Goblin Welder and Bazaar of Baghdad.  Crucible of Worlds or Smokestack can easily remove your entire mana base.  Null Rod, Chalice of the Void, Gorilla Shaman and Karn all attack your precious moxen.  Wasteland and Strip Mine, of course, are the most efficient disruption in the format.  In order to survive their attack you need to choose as many cards as you can that are resistant to their cards, starting with your mana base.

The first order of business is surviving Wasteland, which is both the cheapest disruption they have and, when combined with Crucible, one of the most powerful.  The mana base of Meandeck Gifts has been tuned from the beginning to include as many basic lands as possible.  The standard 4 dual land/6 fetch/4 basic layout is not actually that bad a choice.  It offers 10 lands that are difficult to destroy (4 basics and 6 fetch) and because you have a redundant copy of each of your duals you can afford to drop one early if necessary for a one turn mana boost.  However, there are some other options to increase your resistance to Wasteland.  The most obvious is including more basic lands, either by increasing the mana count by one or by cutting other lands.

Twenty-six mana is certainly a possibility for the deck, and in Stax and Fish heavy metagames it may even be correct, but it will result in more mana floods, and the deck is already slightly prone to flooding.  Ideally, a balance could be found that increases the mana bases resiliency without costing you games against Control Slaver or in the mirror.  Cutting duals for basics is a possibility.  Going to one of a particular dual, though, leaves you in a tough spot when you draw that dual.  Without a backup you can’t afford to lose it, but you will frequently have to take the risk to stay in the game.  A singleton dual can’t really be counted as a land in the deck because you will only be playing it when you intend to win.  Drawing it in your opening hand is almost as bad as drawing Burning Wish or Recoup because you will have to hold it until the late game or, if you do play it and it is destroyed, you will be crippled.  On the other hand the benefits of the extra basic are obvious – you have a better chance of being able to play like mono blue for almost the entire game.  If you do cut a dual, Underground Sea is more dispensable than Volcanic Island because your sideboard depends on red cards like Pyroclasm and Red Elemental Blast.

Cutting fetchlands is a very difficult thing to evaluate.  In one sense, fetches are better than basics.  They are resistant to Strip Mine and they can get you that critical off color mana on the game winning turn.  If you ever face an active Crucible recurring Strip Mine you may wish you had included a few more fetches and a few less basics.  The most obvious advantage of cutting fetches for basics is that you can simply play more basics in the game.  If you only have four basics in the deck, you can quite  obviously never have more than four basics on the board.  This is important because, between Wasteland and Null Rod, it is not uncommon for your total number of basics to set the limit how much mana you have each turn.  A secondary concern is the problem of lands going to the graveyard.  Strip Mine and Smokestack can both destroy one or more basic lands, and once they are gone they are not coming back.  To make matters worse, if you ever want to use Gifts to get basic lands (a Fetch, Fetch, Island, Snow-Covered Island split) you are likely to end up with 2 of your basic lands in the grave.  This can be devastating.  Four basic lands is probably enough if you don’t lose any.  You can cast all of your spells with four mana.  Extras should be included at the expense of fetches only if you find yourself frequently Gifting for basics (in my opinion a poor play most of the time) or if you are simply uncomfortable with the fact (pretty much unavoidable in my opinion) that a single lucky Strip Mine can be the difference between losing and winning.

Besides changing your mana base itself you can also consider, both for the maindeck and for the sideboard, certain cards that can neutralize Wasteland more proactively.  The most popular of these is Pithing Needle, but also deserving of consideration are Blood Moon and Crucible of Worlds.  Blood Moon seems like a strange choice because Uba Stax is a mono-red deck, so you won’t be stopping any of their spells.  Shutting down Wasteland, Strip Mine and Bazaar is nothing to sneeze at, however.  You will find yourself feeling very secure if Blood Moon resolves because they have very few real ways left to gain devastating card advantage without Bazaar or Crucible/Wasteland.  Crucible is, in my opinion, an inferior choice.  Uba Stax will be happy to play in a mutual mana lock with you, where each turn you play a land and they strip it.  You need to stop the strips, not get the lands back after they are stripped.  Pithing Needle is probably the best option of the three because unlike Blood Moon it can stop Goblin Welder as well as Wasteland.  In a Stax/Control Slaver/Fish metagame Pithing Needle is possible maindeck material, at least as a one of.  The first is unlikely to be dead in any matchup except the mirror, but more than one could leave you with dead cards against CS and other decks with only one good target.  I find a maindeck Needle to have a similar impact to a 26th land in matchups with Wasteland decks and to be superior to the extra land against CS and a number of other decks that don’t attack your mana.

(Additional note:  Both Steve and Vroman told me that they thought I was overrating Needle.  While Needle is one of the parts of my strategy I am most happy with, it is hard to ignore a comment that comes independently from two excellent sources.  Regardless, no one seems to suggest going to less than two Needles between the board and the main).

The proceeding suggest two possible lines of thought on surviving Wasteland.  You can either try to make Wasteland irrelevant by running a mana base of nearly all basics or you can accept some vulnerability to Wasteland and use Needle to negate the advantage.  I find the second alternative more compelling because it allows you to run more off color spells and a better mana base for your other matchups (where you will need your colors, sometimes in multiples).  The second alternative is also strong, though, and worth considering.  But keep in mind that whatever you do, the deck will need at least 3 non-basics (Academy, Volc, and Sea) and you will draw them sometimes whether you like it or not.  Regardless, you will want some Needles in the sideboard to deal with Welder, so the question is more one of emphasis than a hard division.

There is really no good way to protect the other half of your mana base, the artifacts.  They are all must includes because the deck is so reliant on acceleration.  In fact, the key to the entire matchup is usually the play where you try to remove the relevant artifact hoser and win in the opening.  If you have protected enough of your lands and accumulated a strong hand you should win.  If not, you will lose.  The standard options to for removing the offending artifact hosers are Echoing Truth and Rebuild in the main, with Rack and Ruin and more Rebuilds in the sideboard.  This is a perfectly reasonable strategy, and there isn’t much to do to improve on it, but I think at least one card is deserving of consideration in this regard.  Gorilla Shaman is an incredible Chalice hoser that is useful in the metagame at large.  Because he can also deny Stax acceleration and stop Welder’s shenanigans I would strongly recommend at least one Shaman maindeck in Stax heavy metas.  The disadvantage, of course is the mana cost.  You will have to accept the possibility of fetching an early dual to cast the Shaman.  For this reason Shaman is probably more consistent with a Needle and duals approach to Wasteland than a all basics approach.

To beat Uba Stax, here are the changes I have made in the maindeck:

-2 Misdirection
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Gorilla Shaman

These changes certainly weaken my mirror matchup, and control matchups in general, but in the most important control matchup, Control Slaver, is vulnerable to both Pithing Needle and Shaman, so the blow isn’t as dramatic as it seems.  Nonetheless, it is clear that this is a dramatic maindeck change to make for one deck.  Those that aren’t comfortable with this kind of change will have to rely on their sideboard to pull them through in this matchup.  This is a risky proposition because it means you will have to beat them at least once when they are going first, which isn’t easy, but you can at least do your best to even the matchup.

The most obvious card to sideboard are more artifact hate.  In particular Rebuild and Rack and Ruin are strong choices.  Rack and Ruin is hurt by its off color mana requirement and the fact that Welder will often simply recur the most important artifact destroyed.  It is good to include one though, because it is a different card name for Gifts and because Price of Glory (in Uba Stax sideboard) can make it hard to Rebuild properly.  These cards won’t win the game on their own though.  Simply overloading on removal will often lead to depleted gamestates where a Smokestack or active Crucible or even a simple beater like an unimprinted Duplicant, Solemn Simulacrum, or even a Welder, can do a lot of damage over multiple turns.  Your bounce in particular won’t do you much good if you can’t follow it up with something devastating.

You also will absolutely need to have a way to deal with Welder.  Because Pithing Needle is good against both Wasteland and Welder it seems like the ideal choice.  An outside consideration that can deal with Welders and Shamans as well as cycling or being pitched to Force (and can be fetched with Scroll) is Fire/Ice, but I think Needle is the better choice.  If you are dependant on Needle to protect your mana and stop Welder you will want at least three.  If you are running heavy basics you may want only two since after Welder the targets become less appealing.  As a rule of thumb I would suggest that if you have 4 or 5 duals in your mana base you want 3 Needles post-board.  If you have only 2 or 3 duals you should try only 2 Needles.  If you are using 4 or more duals I think even 4 Needles might be worth testing.  Although I have never used more than 3 myself, I have never regretted drawing one in this matchup.  Uba Stax has 6 excellent targets for Needle (Wasteland, Strip Mine, Bazaar, Welder, Shaman, and Karn).  Shutting down the first four of these one way or another is a huge part of beating Uba Stax.

One sideboard option that Steven Menendaian suggest to me for the CronStax matchup, but which I have also found to be strong against Uba Stax, is Mind Twist.  It seems counterintuitive because Uba Stax is designed to play with an empty hand to make the most of Bazaar-Mask synergy, but it is actually excellent.  As I am mentioned above, your bounce is worthless if you can’t follow it up with something devastating, and there is nothing better than following up a Rebuild with a Mind Twist.  Other options might win you the game (Gifts Ungiven, for example) but Mind Twist takes relatively little setup to do its job, so I feel it has a place in the deck post board.  Twist is also amazing early because Stax has no counterspells, so you can be sure it will resolve.

With that in mind the correct sideboard against Uba Stax seems to be something like:

1-2 Rack and Ruin
1-2 Rebuild
2-3 Pithing Needle
1 Mind Twist

The numbers of each card will be affected by what you have maindeck and how much sideboard space you feel you can dedicate to the matchup.  Running the minimum of each with no maindeck changes is a pretty risky proposition if you expect to see Uba Stax at all, but it only takes 5 sideboard slots, several of which are strong in other matchups.  Running the maximum both main and in the board would only be necessary in the most lopsided metagames.  I run 1 Rack and Ruin, 1 Rebuild, 2 Pithing Needle (1 main), and 1 Mind Twist.  As mentioned above, I also have a maindeck Shaman.

Finally, there are a few don’ts to think about when building to handle Uba Stax.  First, although Mana Drain has gotten a bad rep in this deck from a number of places, and it may be one of the weaker cards in the deck in some matchups (Fish, for example), it is an absolutely essential card to beating Uba Stax.  Don’t cut one unless you are sure you won’t be facing it.  Second, Cunning Wish is an unacceptable loss of tempo in this matchup.  It seems like Wish-> Rebuild or Rack and Ruin would be better than Echoing Truth, but it isn’t.  Finally, for the love of God, don’t cut Fact or Fiction or Gifts if you want to win any matches with this deck, but especially this one.  You need gamebreaking spells that get around Uba Mask and make up for the fact that every spell in his deck many-to-ones you one way or another.

Regardless of how you build your deck you can’t expect to do well against Uba Stax unless you understand the matchup.  So now I will turn to how decision making during the game can give you an advantage against Uba Stax.

II.   Playing the Game

Once you get in a game with Uba Stax, your card choices are set.  Now you have to make the most of what you have.  A big part of this is simply thinking through your decisions logically and not making mistakes, but some of it is counterintuitive.

Before I begin, however, I would like to suggest a playtest technique that applies beyond just the Uba Stax matchup.  In addition to testing against real opponents, which is an essential part of refining a deck, I would suggest making a conscious decision to test the matchup playing both decks (ie, “two-fistedâ€? testing).  This doesn’t produce as reliable a win-loss measure as traditional testing, but it does let you see what is really going on in your opponents head when he plays against your deck.  Learning how to play a deck is the best way to learn how to play against it.

Your gameplan against Uba Stax is very simple.  You need to survive and keep a board position long enough to put together a hand that can Rebuild their board and win the game (or effectively win the game) before the artifacts come back down.  Usually you will do this by playing fetches and basics (nothing non-basic if possible).  Your entire goal with your library manipulation early on it to find more basic lands and fetches.  If you are lucky you can get a start with some acceleration before the hate stops it.  Getting a single use out of a Mox is excellent at this stage of the game.  You shouldn’t be fighting to hard over cards like Null Rod and Chalice early.  You don’t have any real chance of stopping him from hating your artifacts because his hate is so plentiful and cheap.  Instead focus on the relatively few cards he has that threaten your basic lands.  Once you have expended your cheap draw and acceleration and he has played out his hate the game will slow down some.  If he has resolved a Smokestack or a Crucible/Strip combo or an Uba Mask/Bazaar combo he will use this slowdown to destroy you.  If you have prevented these three possibilities (note that that’s only 7 cards to counter + the random Crucibles that have Strip backup) then you need to kick in your draw.  If you have 4 basics or 3 basics and a dual you can afford to lose there is a good chance you have won – Fact and Gifts will come online and you can begin to pull away.  With less lands you and your opponent will be in a topdecking war.  If Uba Mask is out at this stage it can be annoying, but it isn’t usually devastating without the Bazaar.  All you want to do is lay lands anyway.

My strategy against Uba Stax is very conservative.  Force of Will is an absolutely essential card in this matchup, but you don’t want to just throw it out for tempo.  You aren’t going to win the early game tempo war, so throwing cards away to try to do so seems to me to be a waste of resources.  I will try my darndest not to put myself in a postion where I have to Force Crucible, for example.  What are my answers to Wasteland for (basics and Needle) if I have to Force Crucible?  I also like to try to survive Welder until I can Needle him.  The main thing you need to do is judge the actual effect a particular card will have on your game in the current situation.  Smokestack isn’t strong if you have 4 artifacts locked down by Null Rod to sac to it.  If you Force it you won’t have the spell you Forced away to try to find an bounce or some other answer.  If you can weather one or two lock parts by shuffling away Moxen rather than Forcing Null Rod, Needling Strip rather than Forcing Crucible, etc, you are in a great position to start building your hand and land base so you can stop later threats and put your self in a postion to win the game.

Realistically, of course, you will often have to Force spells.  You must Force Crucible if you know they have Strip Mine or you have multiple lands vulnerable to Wasteland.  These situations are unavoidable, and you gotta do what you gotta do, but the key thing to remember is that you have a lot of answers many-to-one answers in your deck to most of the important spells (especially, post sb), so if you can just survive a lock-piece long enough to find one you will have gained a permanent advantage in the game.

Mana Drain, on the other hand, is played the exact opposite way.  It is simply a Dark Ritual in this matchup, but better since its blue.  Anything that costs 3 or more should be Drained, regardless of what it is, unless you have absolutely nothing to cast with the mana.  Even if they have Welder in play it is often worthwhile to Drain an artifact just for the mana boost.  You don’t have your moxen most of the time in this matchup, so your Drains are your acceleration.

Smokestack is a pretty threatening card because it is their only way of denying you your basic land except for Strip Mine, which is obvious restricted.  It is slow however.  This makes it possible to let it resolve if you have a few dead cards to throw to it (Rodded Moxen, most often) so you can dig for an answer.  But if you only have basic lands in play you had better not let it drop without an answer in hand.  The degree of threat this card presents is one of the biggest differences between Control Slaver and Gifts.  CS simply welds this guy out every couple turns and otherwise ignores it.  Gifts can easily be destroyed by it.

Uba Mask is a very good card, but you can play under it.  If you have a couple of mana in play you have a good deal better than 50% chance of being able to play your card off the top (if it is mana, a tutor, or Gifts/Fact).  Brainstorm is mostly dead, but if you have very few cards in hand (like, one) you can use Brainstorm the same way they use Bazaar and it will often net you a mana or two and perhaps a gamebreaking card.  Ancestral can be use on your mainphase to make a land drop.  It seems obvious, but if you draw a Mox and Chalice for 0 is in play, cast it so it ends up in your graveyard for a Yawg. Will.

Gifts Ungiven is an important spell because it draws around Uba Mask.  If you have a Drain and a Gifts in hand Uba Mask isn’t very scary – you have your counterspell and you can draw with the Gifts.  When making Gifts selections in this matchup you probably won’t be able to try for something lethal right away.  Artifact mana hate makes it pretty unlikely you can win without establishing your game first.  You can’t Tinker early (except for desperation Tinkers) because Welder and Duplicant will wreck you more often than not.  Good cards to go for in Gifts include Mana Drain (which they will almost never give you if they’re smart) Fact or Fiction, another Gifts Ungiven, and Merchant Scroll.  Fact or Fiction is pretty similar to Gifts in this matchup, but it is probably the better card because it will often get you a mix of land and spells, which is exactly what you need to win this matchup.  You can’t put your bounce spells in your Gifts unless you can put enough in to be sure to get one and you know it will win you the game.  If you don’t win the game with it you will have a hard time getting another chance with no bounce.  Brainstorm is a good Gifts selection as long as Uba Mask isn’t down.

Although Gifts runs a Island/Snow-Covered Island split in the deck to allow a Gifts for basic land, I find that the play is a fairly weak one in many circumstances.  If you don’t have another Gifts in hand you are using your draw spell to get mana when you have nothing to cast, which is pretty poor.  Even if you have something to cast you are probably sending two basics to the graveyard.  Since you will nearly always have at least one basic already in play that leaves you with two fetches in hand and often one or no basics left in the deck.  If you were worried about being short on basic lands before you Gifted, by Gifting you have virtually assured you won’t have enough.  It is almost always a better play to try to get they to give you Brainstorm or Fact, both of which pull up lands well but don’t dramatically reduce your chances of getting land later.  Often you can get a land by putting a fetch or two in a split with spells as well, which doesn’t deplete your library of your precious basics.

Rebuild should be played almost only when you are sure that you will be doing something very important before they get another mainphase.  That means on their end step or your own mainphase, but NOT, except in extraordinary circumstances, on their mainphase or your turn if it will tap you out.  That means that the Rebuild in response to Bazaar activation play, which seems so tempting, is usually wrong.  They will happily discard their worst three cards, recast their best (including, probably, Uba Mask), and you are down a critical Rebuild having done nothing but Funeral Charmed them.  When in doubt it is better to let them cast what they get off the Bazaar and then Rebuild it along with all the rest EOT.  Rebuilding a Chalice to drop several moxen, though, could easily be a good play as long as you are confident they have no Null Rod or Shaman.  Because you have to neutralize Crucible and Smokestack before they do any damage Rebuild is most frequently an answer to Null Rod and Chalice, the deck’s artifact mana hate.

Merchant Scroll is an important card in this matchup, but it must be played carefully.  Uba Stax can wreck you if they know what is in your hand by casting a Chalice for X.  The only cards that are reasonably safe from this are Gifts and Fact, because 8 mana is a lot even for Stax.  Scrolling for Force early may be correct, but, as I argued above, you will lose if you try to force too aggressively against Uba Stax.  Scrolling for Drain is a much better play if you have the mana available, and it can buy you an amnesty from casting for a long time.  If you have a Drain in hand and you get to 4 mana to start Gifting on their end step you have just won the game.  Scrolling for bounce is fine, if the situation warrants it, but bounce should win you the game in this matchup, so if you aren’t ready to win it might be better to play a more positional game.  Merch. for Ancestral is, of course, excellent, as long as Uba Mask isn’t in play.

Demonic Tutor is the biggest enigma in your deck.  It has all the same caveats (except they can’t be entirely sure what is in your hand) as Merchant Scroll with the additional problem that fetching black mana early is often a terrible play.  As in many matchups, the correct play is often to tutor for Yawg. Will.  It is much easier to get to six mana to Yawg. Will and Rebuild in the same turn than it is to get to ~10 to Recoup, Yawg. Will and Rebuild.

Tinker is a card that rewards a good gambler.  In this matchup it serves its role as a win condition just fine, but playing it earlier is very risky.  The Uba Stax maindeck listed above includes 2x Duplicant, which is of course a loss if it gets your DSC.  Second game those may be sideboarded out, but they may not.  It is a guessing game, and if you win you probably win the game, but if you lose you will certainly lose the game.  All in all, unless you have good counter backup or are throwing it out there for your one last chance it is better to hold the Tinker until you can protect it.  That doesn’t even consider Welder, who is of course Uba Stax most common Tinker answer.  You can usually feel pretty certain that he doesn’t have a Welder if he has left open red mana on previous turns.  Nonetheless, topdecks happen.  Finally, it seems obvious, but don’t underestimate Smokestack as an answer to DSC.  I have done twice thrown out a DSC to race a ‘stack and have lost both times.  The first time was simple inability to count.  The second I had a plan but it was wrecked by a timely Wasteland.  In both cases I made the wrong play.

Pithing Needle is pretty easy to play against Uba Stax.  If you have a non-basic in play and there isn’t another obvious target it is a fine play to toss it out naming Wasteland even if you aren’t sure they have one.  They will, before the game is over.  And if they don’t, well then you probably win too.  If they have Welder, you probably have to name it.  If they are milling their library with a Crucible in play you might consider preemptively naming Strip Mine.  You could also name Bazaar in that situation, but if they topdeck the Strip you lose.  If you have your board protected with Needles that you can’t afford to lose you should consider a Needle naming Shaman to protect your other Needles.  Needle naming Bazaar is not a priority unless they have Uba Mask in play.  If they do, you have to name it.  If you have Needle in play for Wasteland then Tolarian Academy is your best friend.  It is hard to lose with an Academy producing more than one mana if they can’t remove it.  They do have two outs though, Strip Mine and their own Academy.

When sideboarding against Uba Stax, consider the cards it preys on in your deck.  Brainstorm and Ancestral are uncuttable, but Merchant Scroll is there to fetch Ancestral and is pretty weak in this matchup, so it is a candidate to cut.  Demonic is mostly a worse Merchant Scroll because it requires black mana, so it may be cuttable.  Misdirection is clearly dead.  The most difficult choice is whether, and how much, artifact mana can be cut.  Uba Stax runs more cards that hose your Moxen than you run artifact mana, 11 (4 Rod, 4 Chalice, 2 Shaman, 1 Karn).  In my mind, that makes your moxen a liability.  You need some, of course, but drawing two or more early can be very bad for you.  I would suggest cutting at least the Pearl regardless of whether you are going first or second, and I have had good success cutting both the Pearl and the Emerald going second.  While there is no such thing as too much acceleration, there is defiantly such a thing as to many dead cards.  Mana Vault and Lotus Petal, the two weakest accelerants on their own, aren’t cuttable because Vault gets around Chalice for one and Petal is needed to support Gifts for black mana the turn before you Will (ie, Black Lotus, Mox Jet, Lotus Petal, something else).  Besides, given the amount of Mox hate in Uba Stax the fact that Petal and Vault only produce mana once doesn’t make them much different from the Moxen anyway.

My current sb plan is something like this:

-1 Mox Pearl
-1 Demonic Tutor
-1 Merchant Scroll
-1 Misdirection
+1 Rack and Ruin
+1 Rebuild
+2 Pithing Needle

In addition, if I am going first I will do:

-1 Merchant Scroll (first turn Merch. Scroll is a particularly horrible play going first, because any Chalices they have will just be waiting for you to try for a quick Ancestral)
+1 Mind Twist

Going second:

-1 Mox Emerald
+1 Mind Twist

Well, if you have reached the end of this you are a better man than I.  I hope you got something out of it.  I would be interested in your responses to this, but also in other similar matchup analyses by players who feel they know one matchup particularly well.

Leo

[Polynomial P]

Very good matchup analysis Leo. The Uba stax matchup is quite a difficult one for control period and seems considerably worse for Gifts than it is for Control Slaver.

You are dead on about ignoring Chalice and Null Rod early. They will not win Uba Stax the game and simply need to be rebuilded away just before you win. (or welded or echoing truthed if you play CS)

The matchup seems quite different for Gifts than for CS. As a CS player I find that there are 3 important spells in Uba Stax: Crucible of Worlds, Goblin Welder, and Uba Mask in order of importance. I try to keep that Crucible off the table as much as possible. Uba Stax will eventually wreck you with their wasteland and eventually find their strip mine, but if they Bazaar without a Uba Mask in play, the will drop 2 lands and a fatty artifact in their yard. If you keep crucible off the table it makes their bazaars less efficient. I still think that Gifts should try to keep crucible off the table if possible.

Second is welder: The trix with welder are amazing especially if you draw a non-instant. Active welders are key to Uba Stax So shutting them down with your pithing needle is a great play if you cant keep them away with your counters.

Finally, Uba Mask really makes their deck. Welder Trix, Bazaar Trix, and a deck full of permanents can spell doom for you. However, Gifts is fairly resistant to Uba Mask with only 5 "draw a card" spells. If they do not have a welder or a bazaar, you can gifts/FOF your way to the win even with a Mask in your face.

As for dropping a few misdirections, I think that is a great choice. The threat of a misdirection is nearly as good as misdirection itself. Misdirection does not help you in most stax matchups and a good CS player will not cast ancestral against gifts unless they know it will resolve. The loss of an additional pitch couter in the counter wars is made up for by your additions of Pithing needle and Gorilla shaman whcih have broad applications and can wreck CS. I have been running that Gorilla shaman in my CS build and it greatly imporves the stax mathup.

As for sideboarding, have you had much success with the tinker/colossus in this matchup? Why not take it out for additional Rack and ruins or bounce? The threat of welder, smokestax race, and duplicant all seem like they would scare me from going Tinker-->Colossus.

Jacob

[PucktheCat]

Jacob,

Thanks for the reply.  I think your responses are mostly accurate.

The Uba stax matchup is quite a difficult one for control period and seems considerably worse for Gifts than it is for Control Slaver.

I think this is accurate.  It is important not to overstate the case however.  The advantage of CS comes from the fact that it maindecks 4 extremely efficient artifact removal spells.  Gifts doesn't have this option, but it does have the possibility of winning the game in a single turn after a Rebuild or some other opening.  That can make up for a lot.

I try to keep that Crucible off the table as much as possible.

This is one area where Gifts has an advantage over CS.  Because you play 6 duals to my 4 it is a good deal less likely you can ignore recurring Wastelands.  I also am really focused on getting that first Needle for Wasteland.  The disadvantage of my strategy is that if they get that damn Strip Mine I will lose almost every time (my only answers are finding another Needle for Strip, removing the Crucible with bounce or R&R, or winning the game).  The advantage is that I will have more counters for the cards I can't play around.

In the end I think the choice is often made for you.  If you have non-basics and no Needle you have to counter.  If you have no non-basics or a Needle and there is no reason to suspect Strip Mine it is probably wrong to counter.  With this deck you have the later situation pretty often.

I have been running that Gorilla shaman in my CS build and it greatly imporves the stax mathup.

I know 

As for sideboarding, have you had much success with the tinker/colossus in this matchup? Why not take it out for additional Rack and ruins or bounce? The threat of welder, smokestax race, and duplicant all seem like they would scare me from going Tinker-->Colossus.

I have experimented with removing Tinker/Colossus post-sb in a number of matchups, and the fundamental problem with it is that when you are relying on the Tendrils kill exclusively you can't use Yawg. Will unless it will win you the game right there.  If you do you will have a very hard time reaching 10 Storm later in the game.  Often with this deck Yawg. Will is gamebreaking before it would be gamewinning (if that makes any sense).  I think you saw my game last time I was at the shop where I was playing Uba Stax and I Yawg. Willed before I had a tutor in my yard.  Although my storm got pretty high I never found a tutor so I "settled" for Mind Twisting his entire (rebuilt) board.  I couldn't have done that without Tinker in my deck as an alternate win condition.

I also still beleive that a suicide Tinker is the right play some of the time in this matchup, especially when they get something like a fast Strip Mine/Crucible.  If its your only hope it is never a bad play.

Leo

[necromancer4285]

Uba Stax is a wonderful deck and the list Vroman used was phenominal. But the fact you believe you can beat THAT list is fine. There is new tech I am working on with aid of my team members that outshines Vroman's list. The fact you believe a Rebuild is the answer to be stax..you're mistaken. Stax has too many must counters. Gifts Is a strong counter heavy deck but you cannot claim you will have a counter for their every threat. I just believe that their are key cards that Vroman lacks in his main and sideboard that makes all the difference. In all of the above posts it seems Gifts believes a single rebuild is the answer for them to win. Come on. Give a new creative Stax player, such as myself some credit. There ARE ways to stop it. Not to mention a new cute little artifact me and my Team leader discovered that can disrupt MANY decks and make them crumble on activation. No I refuse to label any of these cards because of the fact I dont want any secrets before the next Tournament I enter. They do not call it team secret Tech for nothing, right  Anyhoo. After considerable playtesting Uba Stax has few real weakness'. It's ability to break through counter walls is why the match up against Control is so good. Uba Stax is weak vs Aggro and Oath....Control Slaver can be a problem but the match comes down to welder superiority. You cannot counter Bazaar and by the time I drop Uba mask you have no counters cause you wasted them already. I don't care how good of a CS player you are. Other things NEED to be countered. it is the way it is. I am by no means bragging about how superior my deck is because it's really not. My version has just tightened the edges a bit more...using cards that other Stax players dont stick in the Main and a really old card so good it had to be reprinted before The Dark...and if i go first...i beat Food Chain Goblins and hopefully most aggro decks a whole lot more of the time than I used to.

I just dont like that you make that hue list talking about Gifts compared to that one build. This isnt Pokemon or Type 2 magic where a whole tournament has 3 different decks. There are new...quite obvious card choices to Uba Stax that stop a siimple Rebuild....and Tinker Colossus is dumb....btw because after you've wasted tinker I weld your colossus for a mox and make it that mutch harder to cast again. OR force the Stax player to Duplicant is which is adorable.

I just wish the Type 1 community would get over Tinker Colossus...I am so sick of that combo. Colossus is so overrated.

Now if people view this thread as a bashing...then fine. 'cuz its not! i'm just putting in my 2 cents and opinions.

[doylehancock]

when will you unleash your supertech?

I agree that the matchup is a hard one but it can be in favor of gifts.  I suggest duress' like a mofo and rid them out.  The fact is if you duress early and often and then follow that up with a mind twist its pretty hard not to win those games.

[Polynomial P]

Uba Stax is a wonderful deck and the list Vroman used was phenominal. But the fact you believe you can beat THAT list is fine. There is new tech I am working on with aid of my team members that outshines Vroman's list.

Necro, thanks for offering great answers without telling us anything. Your secret tech must be great, but dont bother telling us about it until you are actually going to tell us about it.

The fact you believe a Rebuild is the answer to be stax..you're mistaken. Stax has too many must counters. Gifts Is a strong counter heavy deck but you cannot claim you will have a counter for their every threat. I just believe that their are key cards that Vroman lacks in his main and sideboard that makes all the difference. In all of the above posts it seems Gifts believes a single rebuild is the answer for them to win. Come on.

Necro, noone said that Rebuild was a great answer to Stax, in fact...

PucktheCat wrote: "In particular Rebuild and Rack and Ruin are strong choices...These cards won’t win the game on their own though." 

PucktheCat wrote: "As I am mentioned above, your bounce is worthless if you can’t follow it up with something devastating, and there is nothing better than following up a Rebuild with a Mind Twist."

Rebuild serves to open up a window so that the gifts player can win. Furthermore rebuild, other bounce, and rack and ruin, and gorilla shaman are all included BECAUSE Gifts and control decks cannot counter every stax threat.

Control Slaver can be a problem but the match comes down to welder superiority. You cannot counter Bazaar and by the time I drop Uba mask you have no counters cause you wasted them already. I don't care how good of a CS player you are. Other things NEED to be countered. it is the way it is.

As I outlined before:

As a CS player I find that there are 3 important spells in Uba Stax: Crucible of Worlds, Goblin Welder, and Uba Mask in order of importance. I try to keep that Crucible off the table as much as possible. Uba Stax will eventually wreck you with their wasteland and eventually find their strip mine, but if they Bazaar without a Uba Mask in play, the will drop 2 lands and a fatty artifact in their yard. If you keep crucible off the table it makes their bazaars less efficient. I still think that Gifts should try to keep crucible off the table if possible.

Second is welder: The trix with welder are amazing especially if you draw a non-instant. Active welders are key to Uba Stax So shutting them down with your pithing needle is a great play if you cant keep them away with your counters.

Finally, Uba Mask really makes their deck. Welder Trix, Bazaar Trix, and a deck full of permanents can spell doom for you. However, Gifts is fairly resistant to Uba Mask with only 5 "draw a card" spells. If they do not have a welder or a bazaar, you can gifts/FOF your way to the win even with a Mask in your face.

The point of that post was to talk about how CS plays against Uba Stax. I will save my counters/artifact distruction for crucible, welder, and Uba mask. CS and gifts have superior draw compared to the bazaar card disadvantage engine and Puckthecat stated he isnt even worried about number 1 on my list, and Gifts, FOF, and merchant scroll avoid Uba mask.

....and Tinker Colossus is dumb....btw because after you've wasted tinker I weld your colossus for a mox and make it that mutch harder to cast again. OR force the Stax player to Duplicant is which is adorable.

I just wish the Type 1 community would get over Tinker Colossus...I am so sick of that combo. Colossus is so overrated.

Now if people view this thread as a bashing...then fine. 'cuz its not! i'm just putting in my 2 cents and opinions.

PucktheCat wrote: "Tinker is a card that rewards a good gambler.  In this matchup it serves its role as a win condition just fine, but playing it earlier is very risky.  The Uba Stax maindeck listed above includes 2x Duplicant, which is of course a loss if it gets your DSC.  Second game those may be sideboarded out, but they may not.  It is a guessing game, and if you win you probably win the game, but if you lose you will certainly lose the game.  All in all, unless you have good counter backup or are throwing it out there for your one last chance it is better to hold the Tinker until you can protect it.  That doesn’t even consider Welder, who is of course Uba Stax most common Tinker answer.  You can usually feel pretty certain that he doesn’t have a Welder if he has left open red mana on previous turns.  Nonetheless, topdecks happen.  Finally, it seems obvious, but don’t underestimate Smokestack as an answer to DSC.  I have done twice thrown out a DSC to race a ‘stack and have lost both times.  The first time was simple inability to count.  The second I had a plan but it was wrecked by a timely Wasteland.  In both cases I made the wrong play."

I wrote: "As for sideboarding, have you had much success with the tinker/colossus in this matchup? Why not take it out for additional Rack and ruins or bounce? The threat of welder, smokestax race, and duplicant all seem like they would scare me from going Tinker-->Colossus."

PucktheCat wrote: "I also still beleive that a suicide Tinker is the right play some of the time in this matchup, especially when they get something like a fast Strip Mine/Crucible.  If its your only hope it is never a bad play."

Seriously necro, read the previous posts. And who plays Tinker-->colossus with a welder on board? Additionally, Colossus is a two turn clock, the best creature clock in the game, plus decks with tinker/colossus often run an assortment of counterspells and their new goal is to protect that win condition.

Uba Stax is a difficult matchup for both Gifts and CS, but it is not an unwinable one.

[PucktheCat]

necromancer: I am sure you will do fine with your new tech as long as you keep the elements that made the deck strong in the first place: mana disruption.  One of the most devestating card in Uba Stax (from a Gifts perspective) is Null Rod, so as long as you keep that you should be fine.

Not to mention a new cute little artifact me and my Team leader discovered that can disrupt MANY decks and make them crumble on activation.

hmmm . . . Well, I'm sure you'll do fine anyway.

To be a bit more constructive, I also have some advice.  If you want people to take your claims seriously, don't simply assert them without argumentation.  You may be right, you and your team may have a format changing discovery on your hands.  People may look back at Vroman's list and wonder why people didn't immediatly see the importance of whatever card you are adding.  But that doesn't change the fact that your post adds nothing to the conversation.

Leo

[vroman]

great article Leo.
Im convinced ubastax is favored against gifts. control slaver is the real problem match up for me. CS has an extremely efficient, long term ability to answer my threats after they resolve via welder. gifts only has bounce that might be chaliced out or too late in coming to prevent its mana base from dying.
obviously this is a small result pool, but if I recall correctly I went 4-1 overall against gifts at gencon and 0-3 against CS.
possibly the way to win against ubastax (and workshop in general) is do something radical like board welders and a mindslaver, while they side out their trikes.
Im not that scared of pithing needle. its a card out of your hand that doesnt stop smokestack.

@necro. your expected to prove your ideas before you boast about them. if you want to message me about this tech, I'll explain why my list is as it is, and of course credit you if your idea is an improvement. good luck w the deck. I hope you can beat CS w your upgrades.

[MaxxMatt]

First of all, I really appreciate the article.
It has a lot of points that can help people realize how difficult that MW.dec's matchup is, compared against other decks.

I have a couple of lines to add about sideboarding in and out cards, comparing those decisions to the fact that you are going first or not.

My Gifts.dec sideboard have your exact card's choices: R&Rs, Rebuilds, Needles.
My maindeck have some dead cards, as well as yours, so I can find some space for the right configuration of some of the needed sideboard cards.

I usually would like to side in both 2-3 additional Artifact removals/bouncers and 3 Needles.
The first ones are strong because they get rid of their weapons and they usually are untouched by early CotVs.
On the other hand, the Needles as strong beacuse they shut-up opponent's "engines" but they are completely wrecked by early CotVs.

In the end, the bad timing of your cards, especially if they are going first, is inevitabile but it can cause you a lot of losses.
I lost a lot of games holding, Needles and Brainstorms and Shamans in my hand beacuse the opponent was going first and resolved a quick CotV for 1, completely shutting down both my reasources and my "cheap" search engine. My deck waited too much on letting me draw or search for some removals and I lost with all those cards into my hand.

On the other hand, I think that going second and playing with so many 1cc drops is a bad move, especially if the ( possibly smart ) opponent is aware of your sideboarding choices.

My maindeck have those maindeck solutions: 1 Shaman, 1 Rebuild, 1 Rushing River
For reference this is my sideboard.

1 ToA
1 Primitive Justice
1 Duress
1 Pyroclasm
1 Edict
3 Needles
2 R&R
1 Rebuild
1 H Recall
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Reb
1 BeB

I have both Shaman and Mindtwist maindecked, so it is the reason of their lack.
As you are going to notice, I have a lot of different answers to Artifact.dec. If I would have considered sideboarding in all of them  in a single matchup, I would have find me in trouble because of the lack of real space.
On the other hand, this load of removals and solutions exclusively depends on my sideboarding strategy.

If I went first, I can easily add all the Needles. I have one turn to develop a bit the mana base and maybe find answers to his own first turn threats before the resolutions of chalices or smokestacks or other denial components. In this way, I have some more possibilities to both resolve a couple of Needles and play Brainstorms or Shaman themselves.

I would add
+3 Needles
+2 R&R
+1 Rebuild
+1 H Recall

On the other hand, if they are going first ( and not counting at all the possibility of holding a FoW, but trying to talk as if they are holding and resolving their right threats in the worst moment of the game ), I'm used to add all the artifact removals, adding only one or two Needles, only as Bazaar's stopper.

I would add

+2 R&R
+1 Rebuild
+1/2 Needle
+1 H Recall
+1 Shattering Pulse
+1 Primitive Justice


The high density of artifacts' removals in the deck, let me safely play through the UbaMask's nasty effect.
I would possibly draw Removals for it or Gifts/FoF to recover. This game plan, and the strategical difference of the card chosen since time to time, let me have a better approach against the Uba's matchup.

While seems that I'm not posing any attention to Welders' recursion, my defensive stretegy can completely shut them down for a lot of turns, or at least, leave me the open window that I need to do my plan.

Welders worst recursion consist on Titan but the most frequent are Smokestacks and So.Si's ones.
While the first one, coupled with Null Rods are gg, I tend to not count it at all because of the lack of Tutoring that the deck had. It would happen I could not consider it from my specific defensive point.
The other ones, are game breaking, but bouncers and removals, can completely shut down their nasty effects for a lot of time.






Reading your lines, I supposed that almost any of your opponents would throw into the board a cotv for 2 as soon as possible.
Your good synopsis, infact, underline the ability of playing all the 1cc and 3cc spells without problems.
This way of playing the Uba-deck, help you a lot, because with a cotv for 2 in play you can easily play all your 1cc weapons and maybe win thanks to them.

On the other hand, I talked in this pessimistic way until now, because I almost faced people that started with cotvs for 1 anytime they could, especially if they went first ( they opted for cotv for 2 anytime I went first, stopping my turn 2 Mana Drain ). The huge amount of dead cards in my hand, forced me to think ahead and work on avoiding the nasty situations where I was unable to resolve my strong but 1cc's spells.
The high number of them all, usually prevent me from playing safely, especially if my opponent is going first.





@@@@@@@@@@@@
Rushing River vs. Echoing Truth

Even if it cost 3, I would pose a lot of attention of the use that I'm doing of Rushing River as better maindeck option rather than Echoing Truth.

The latter is better, if compared with Ra.Ri. only if you have to bounce three or more things all at once.
Often, a game scenario with 3 resolved Welders or 3 Smokestack or 3 CotVs or anything else, is lost so much time BEFORE you are going to play that lone Echoing Truth
On the other hand, I found FANTASTIC the ability of Ra.Ri. of comtemporarily dealing with 2 different types of threats.
Welders+Artifact, Different Artifacts ( and other game situations NOT involving the Uba matchup ) could hae been resolved only because of it.





@@@@@@@@
Different sideboard's approach

I have really appreciated the words that you wrote about the use of Dual Land's Singletons, especially if you are using a lot of fetchlands and a lot of differently coloured one-shot solutions.

I tought hard about some sideboard configurations, that would have helped me more than the one that I'm using now, in this specific matchup, and I think that a lot can be done with the addition of a single Tundra and some Sacred Grounds.
Splashing the sideboard for them may seem stupid, but you have a tools that completely shut down ALL the opponent's different denial strategies, doesn't change a single maindeck card and let you play a safer game against CotV for 1.

the side that can be played is this one.

1 Tundra
3 Sacred Ground
3 Needle you can leave them because of dragon and madness and opponent's tormod's crypts )
2 R&R
1 Rebuild
1 ToA
1 Pyroclasm
1 Duress
1 ReB
1 BeB

Sacred Ground would shine against Chalices Fish, against any MW.dec, against UbaDecks and against other denial strategies.
I have the same good Sorcery Speed targets that I had in the previous configuration and I found really attractive playing with them, because all the "denial" opponents are usually a non-issue when you can rely on a nearly untouchable mana base.


Maxx




@This is a link to my actual list for references. The maindeck I'm playing is the same, plus +1 Gorilla Shaman, -1 Gifts Ungiven. I'm giving it a try, but I don't know if this change could be considered universal or needed in all the possible metagames. It shows an old sideboard, too. You can consider the new one proposed in this posti or a combination of the old with the new.
Hope it can help.

[PucktheCat]

Vroman: I don't know which is favored.  I think it is pretty swingy and random, really, between good players.  I have had decent success in our little local tournaments when matched up against Uba Stax, but my list hasn't stayed exactly the same, so it is hard to judge.

I honestly don't think I know what the matchup would do between two equally skilled opponents with unlimited time to play.  I expect an advantage to one side or another would appear, but I don't think it would be that pronounced.  My major point is writing this was to emphasize what they can do to improve the matchup, regardless of whether it is initially a good one or not.  I think the Merchant Scroll based Gifts framework is very decision intensive, so knowing a matchup can make a huge difference in results.

I consider Pithing Needle a prerequisite to competing in this matchup, not a gamebreaking card.  It is better than sideboarding additional basic lands or fetches, which was an alternative I seriously considered.

Matt: I have to start class now, but I am interested in a couple things you said.  I will write a more complete response when I get a chance.

[doylehancock]

maxx I understand you run mind twist main.  what is your list?

thanks.

[Darkmage]

Have you guys ever tried a second Rebuild main in place of a Misdirection (like Jim Gaffney did at P9 Chicago)?  Also, I only have one real "slot" maindeck because I found that I like 1 Disrupting Shoal more than I expected, so do you think I should run Shaman or Needle MD?  If I don't run Shaman MD, should I run it board?  Also, although I agree that Petal is uncuttable, why can't you gifts for Lotus, Jet, Sea, something if you need black?

[vroman]

re sacred ground:
I saw a judge at gencon rule that sacred ground did not reanimate lands that were sacked to enemy smokestacks.
oracle text pulled from apprentice:
"whenever a spell or ability an opponent controls causes a land to be put into your graveyard from play, return that land to play."
the judge claimed that bc you have to choose which land to sac somehow that circumvented the fact your opponent controls the smokestack. I find this hard to believe, and would like a better explanation if indeed sacred ground is that bad.

re hurkyl:
she only did one thing, and she does it very well. both HR and rebuild should be played to evade chalices and for storm.

[PucktheCat]

Steve is right, Hurkyl's Recall is correct over Rebuild in the board (you still want the Rebuild main).  I didn't include it because it was his idea and not mine to share.  I think it is pretty easy to follow the strategy I suggested with a simple substitution of Hurkyl's for Rebuild when appropriate.

Including Hurkyl's gives you a Rebuild effect at two different casting costs, and it is easier to cast when you're Moxen are shut down (or don't exist) due to hate.  Hurkyl's has an advantage in addition to the casting cost as well - it doesn't return Pithing Needle.  Rebuilding your own Needle can cost you more than one non-basic.

Leo

[PucktheCat]

I am sorry for the long delay in responding to some of you.  I started school this week, so I am a lot busier than I was before.

Darkmage:  I tested a second Rebuild.  It is certainly a step in the right direction for the Stax matchup, but I found that, because of the deck's great search capabilities, it was better to have two complementary cards that together acted as more than the sum of their parts.  Gorilla Shaman and Needle can both give you some breathing room to make Rebuild do the job it is supposed to.  Now, Rebuild has some definate advanatages as well.  It is a blue spell with cycling, so it is easy to get use in every matchup.  That makes it a less dramatic change in control mirrors than some of my additions.  I would therefore see adding a second maindeck Rebuild as a good way to improve your Stax matchup at little cost, but probably not enough to see a dramatic change.

Re Sacred Ground:  I am not sure about the rules issue.  The plain language of the card seems to suggest that Smokestack would be affected.  I will go on that assumption for this response.  Obviously, if Smokestack gets around Sacred Ground it is a horrible card in this matchup.

I have tested a white splash for Serenity (a good option for Stax decks with things like maindeck Choke and other enchantments).  I thought about Sacred Ground at that time but didn't pursue it.  Matt, have you considered sideboarding one or more white sources to supplement the maindeck Tundra?  I had a Plains in the board and 4 Strands main and I was happy with that.  Balance would be a Wish target to consider if you go this route.

The disadavantage, of course, is simply the problem of adding more off-color spells and vulnerable dual lands to your mana base.  That isn't attractive, but if the cards available in white made it worthwhile it could be correct.  A big issue, it seems to me, is that Pithing Needle does a good chunk of Sacred Grounds job (dealing with Wasteland) but it isn't dead in multiples and, of course, is much easier to cast.

Leo

[Smmenen]

Ugh.  I just spent 7 pages talking about the various Stax matchups v. Gifts in my most recently submitted SCG article which will hopefully be up before the end of the month.  In it, I also reference this thread.  So back into the breach .

I think my difficulty is how not to over-sideboard.  I have a tendency to want to put in all the goodies to fight stax.  I think it is also important that you have different sideboard plans to reflect the different elements at play in the various stax matchups. 

Against Uba Stax, my SB plan is basically this:

+ 3 Pithing Needle
+ 2 Hurkyl's Recall
+ 2 Rack and Ruin
+ 1 Echoing Truth/Rushing River

- 3 Misdirection
- Mystical Tutor
- Demonic Tutor
- Mox Pearl (on the draw)

Eventually, I decide that I don't have room for all eight cards and end up sbing in only six or seven.  However, in order to make Merchant Scroll a real threat, you need two Hurkyls main.  You can theoretically cut one Gifts, but you can never cut more than one.  I would rather honestly just cut Fact or Fiction.  My experience over the weekend has actually lead me to believe that Fact or Fiction is a weaker card than Gifts... something which I had never believed before.  Why?  For the simple reason that it is much easier to split a Fact pile than a Gifts pile and if you take the wrong Fact pile you can lose because of it.  Taking the wrong Fact pile cost me two games over the Gencon weekend. 

This Gifts is very powerful:

Merchant Scroll, Hurkyl's Recall, Rack and Ruin, Echoing Truth. 

It is also very powerful to Gifts for a card you already have in hand.  Say you are holding Pithing Needle, you can Gifts for it when your Uba Stax opponent has Welder in play as a way to get them to give you something juicy. 

As I state in the article, the first principle of the Stax match is fixing the mana base.  If you get Wastelanded, you have lost a resource that you didn't have to lose.  Wasteland invulnerability is the first step to beating Stax.  You can do this without relying on Needle.  Currently, I run:

5 Fetchlands
6 Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy

Just throwing out some info for yas...

[Sauron]

In regards to Sacred Ground - thats a bad ruling.

This came up with Braids in Type II a while back and while you choose which land goes, the effect that is puting the land in the GY is clearly controlled by your opponent.

Here some additional rulings stuff on Sacred Ground if anyone it still doubtful:

http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/judgefinder.php?keywords=Sacred%20Ground

In regards to this:

It is also very powerful to Gifts for a card you already have in hand.  Say you are holding Pithing Needle, you can Gifts for it when your Uba Stax opponent has Welder in play as a way to get them to give you something juicy.

I love this play. This is one of the things I loved about Fact or Fiction when you have a good card for matchup/game state already in hand - your opponent overvalues a revealed card and splits poorly. With Gifts its even better since you choose to get a card already in hand.

[Darkmage]

5 Fetchlands
6 Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy

No more Snow-Covered Islands for Smmenen?

[Smmenen]

Sure, I'm using two Snow-Covered, but is that relevant?  I've never gifted for them.  Substitute them if you want. 

[Darkmage]

It's scarcely relevant, I was just wondering if you had changed your mind and decided that showing an opponent a Snow-Covered Island gives away more than being able to gifts for them helps.  I've never gifted for them either, but I continue to run them.  Do you find yourself ever having mana trouble?  I can see only five fetches, but it seems like a Wastelanded Sea would be crippling, and you wouldn't ever want to draw it because you'd be afraid to play it.  I have no doubt that your mana base is the correct one, I'm just surprised by it.

[Smmenen]

Actually, your point about Snow-Covered Islands is a good one.  That is a very good reason not to run them.  However, it's very hard for me to disguise the deck I'm playing in any given tournament.  I recommend that everyone else not run the Snow-Covered Island though, for that very reason. No need to tip off an opponent before they deserve to know.

[vroman]

re the snow covered stealth strategy:
my teammate jim erlinger plays a snow covered island in his URB slaver list, wo gifts ungiven, on the off chance someone might mistakenly think hes playing meandeck gifts. so basically everyone except gifts players should play snow covered so everyone else thinks that theyre playing gifts, while gifts players should not run snow covered bc its not really necesary and they dont want anyone to know theyre playing gifts. oh what a tangled web...

[Lou]

I do run one Snow Covered Island in my Slaver list, but I also run one Gifts.  It is important to try to throw the opponent off, and if I drop that first turn, I am happy to do so as more than likely my opponent will think that I am playing Gifts, and make misplays accordingly.  I have never used Gifts to get it out, but since it can be fetched, and can't be wasted, there is absolutely no reason, in my opinion, not to run one, especially in Slaver.

[PucktheCat]

Regarding Snow-Covered Island:  I think CS should run all Snow-Covered, or at least mostly Snow-Covered.  Why not let bad players think you are playing Gifts?  There is no disadvantage to them, after all.  Gifts players don't really need to run one if they think they are going to disguise what they are playing, but the odds of that ploy working are pretty slim.

In the end I think if every control player picked a random mix of Islands and Snow-Covered Islands before every tournament it would probably be as good a strategy as any - then opponents could gain no information about what you are playing from your basic lands.  If you are playing without Gifts you get the chance for people to misread what you are playing at no disadvantage.  If you have one or more Gifts in your deck you get the once-every-ten-tournaments play of Gifting for basic lands.

I think it is also important that you have different sideboard plans to reflect the different elements at play in the various stax matchups. 

I think this is a pretty important point.  I distinguish between three general Stax variants in my sb planning:  Uba Stax, Traditional/Welder 5cStax, and Welder-less 5cStax.  The last is the most different because it is likely to have some must-remove enchantments (like Choke or In the Eye of Chaos) that aren't susceptible to the Rebuild plan.

It is also very powerful to Gifts for a card you already have in hand.  Say you are holding Pithing Needle, you can Gifts for it when your Uba Stax opponent has Welder in play as a way to get them to give you something juicy.

I find my self using more interesting situation-dependant Gifts against Stax than most other decks.  In addition to plays like the one you describe, with good timing you can often put cards in a Gifts that the Stax player absolutly cannot give you at that moment.  My favorite is Mana Drain.  If you Gifts in response to a big spell and have two mana open (admittedly a fairly rare occurence in this matchup) you can put Mana Drain, Ancestral Recall and pretty much any other two cards you want in the Gifts and you are basically certain to get something completely devestating.

Steve: How do you play it when you draw your Sea?  I hate having a dead land in my deck like that.  I can see your reasoning for it though.

Thanks for the reference in your article.  Unfortunatly, I probably won't be able to contribute much to the later discussion because I am back in school (Magic is a summer sport for me).

Leo