The new "Dredge" mechanic in Dragon

[vartemis]

Always one for looking to make slight tweeks to my deck, I was curious as to your opinion in this mechanic in the deck. 

Dredge X (If you would draw a card, instead you may put exactly X cards from the top of your library into your graveyard. If you do, return this card from your graveyard to your hand. Otherwise, draw a card.)

With Bazaars for card draw, would a creature with dredge be a good replacement for Squee?  The highest one I have seen is Dredge 5 (some imp, name still tentitive).  The ability to drop 8 cards into your grave a turn can find a dragon or other reanimation target pretty quick.  If you were to have 2 of em, you could return em to your hand as a replacement effect for the bazaar.  You would have 1 card less in you hand, but dump 13 cards into the yard (2 being the imps, but 10 fresh ones from your library)!

The other one that looked nice was Golgari Brownscale.

Golgari Brownscale   1GG
Common
Creature - Lizard 
When Golgari Brownscale is put into your hand from your graveyard, you gain 2 life.
Dredge 2 (If you would draw a card, instead you may put exactly 2 cards from the top of your library into your graveyard. If you do, return this card from your graveyard to your hand. Otherwise, draw a card.)
2/3

It doesn't mill as much, but you could gain a bunch of life each turn in multiples.

I like how it works when proxied out.  Your choice is dependent on while style of Dragon you are playing.  I think the imp is for the "balls to the walls" style deck where you just try to go off as fast as possible. The lizard is a more control/waiting version where you are just buying time till you go off.  Is the 2 life worth the loss of a 3 card dump?

feedback please.

j

[Firefly]

I don't know, using them together with bazaar would mean card-disadvantage.

You make bazaar effectively: T: put the top 2 cards from your library into your graveyard, then discard three cards.

But the draw is what makes bazaar so great. Discarding 3 cards every turn is bad, even if you get your dragon in the yard. Most of the times it would just mean you will have to discard your hand (and yes, that's the animate spell too). Your draw spells aren't effective anymore. You would have to cast the Dredge thing the turn you go for the win, because it will cause you to stall if you don't swing for the win immediately.

[vartemis]

I believe you are missreading the card, unless I am wrong.

Situation 1. 1 imp

To start the turn, the imp is in the grave.

Draw: return imp to hand instead, mill 5

any time after: tap bazaar to draw. draw 2 cards, discard 3, 1 being the imp.

repeat each turn.

No gain in hand size, but 5 cards dumped into your grave.

Situation 2. 2 imps

2 in grave at beginning of turn.

Draw

Tap bazaar to draw.  respond to bazaar with returning 2 imps.  mill 10 cards. discard 3 cards, 2 being the imps.

no gain in hand size, but 10 cards dumped into the grave.


this can also stop you from being decked.

j

[Liam-K]

I'm not sure you're fully comprehending the implications of NOT PUTTING A NEW CARD IN YOUR HAND.  Squee works because you still draw new cards.  In your "situation 1" you're giving up your normal draw to put 2 (or 5) cards in the graveyard.  Bad swap.

You have to play an animate spell to win.  Dredge just makes you see less cards you can play.

[Xyre]

Plus, the Dredge cards so far haven't had any special, effective purpose. You essentially have to choose between this or a standard, specialized graveyard-packer like Intuition. You aren't getting much power from this kind of card.

[forests failed you]

You could always dredge Squee into your grave

I think the dredge mechanic is much more standarded based.  The key is that in Standard you can dredge other dredge creatures into your grave.  Once you dredge multiple different Dredge guys n the yard you can pick the ones you want to draw.  It is kind of a slow Green mid to late game Library manipulation mechanic for type two and possible limited.

[vartemis]

gotcha.. well i guess it's unanimous... this is turd tech....

I feel like a bull at a tupperware party... i just can't break anything anymore.

j

[Liam-K]

Also:

If you would draw a card, instead you may put exactly 2 cards from the top of your library into your graveyard. If you do, return this card from your graveyard to your hand. Otherwise, draw a card.

I'm no judge, but I'm a grammar nazi, and the wording here implies that if you for any reason do not put X cards from your library into your graveyard (ie you can't because there aren't enough) you must draw.  Therefor, you can't use this stuff to not get decked.

[rvs]

Also:

If you would draw a card, instead you may put exactly 2 cards from the top of your library into your graveyard. If you do, return this card from your graveyard to your hand. Otherwise, draw a card.

I'm no judge, but I'm a grammar nazi, and the wording here implies that if you for any reason do not put X cards from your library into your graveyard (ie you can't because there aren't enough) you must draw.  Therefor, you can't use this stuff to not get decked.

It has nothing to do with grammer, but more with reading: If you do do X. Otherwise do Y.

On a topic-related note: Dredge is a horrible idea in Dragon, since you're not getting anything new, and you still have to draw an animate.