Can We Look Again to Parfait?

[akabane]

Hi all.
Recently I have been toying with a really OLD Parfait decklist.
I mean, it's Parfait. It's really weird.

But I liked it! I tried to rebuild it a little...
It has strong-minded strategy, good removal and recursion. The only thing, i see, it's that it has a really SLOW winner.

But no more chatting, here i go with my CURRENT list:

MAINDECK:

Manabase -
12 Plains
4 Flooded Strand/Windswept Heath
1 Serra's Sanctum

ToolsLands -
1 Maze of Ith
1 Kor Haven
1 Library of Alexandria

Removal -
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Seal of Cleansing
1 Aura of Silence
1 Balance

NoiseCards -
3 Humility

Recursion/Tutors -
4 Argivian Find
1 Enlightened Tutor

Thinning/Drawing Engine -
4 Land Tax
3 Scroll Rack
3 Tithe
2 Zuran Orb
1 Claws of Gix

Control -
4 Orim's Chant
4 Abeyance

Winner -
2 Mobilization

Let's go with explaining:
The manabase is made by 12 plains+4 fetchlands (good with scroll rack) and by a Serra's Sanctum. This is the card i'm thinking to change into something else, this because i REALLY used it only once, twice times. The library is no comment, the Kor and Maze are vs All-Decks-Play-TinkerPerColossus and Oath.
The removal cards are almost the same in any parfait deck: 4 stp (welders-colossus-akroma-anythingelse), 4 seal (vs. about everything, from nullrods to pithing to tanglewire to crucible to even moxen). Aura of silence is a really powerful card, it really goes crazy vs some decks like weldermud-stacker-etc...and even vs tps-like decks that are first being slowed down by orim/abeyance/etc... and then, if they don't counter aura, it's very difficult to go straight forward. Paying 2 for a mox isn't that good . Without talking about Oath-like decks. Balance is really GOOD GOOD card, can play with 0 lands for 0 mana for the opponent and can decimate opponent's creatures.
Humility i think is a really great insert in this deck. Played in the early stages of parfait, replaced alot of times with moats/wraths/circles and so on, now i play it again. It CAN stop every creature, and i say EVERY, so WHY don't play it, now that the oath-atog-colossus-thousandothercreatures are played?
Argivians are the classic recursion card, can take a broken seal, or a countered Enchant/Artifact.
Enlightened is no comment.
The engine is everytime the same, LT+ZO. But this time I added 3x Tithe (for thinning in EoT, and for reshuffling after a really great scroll rack (ES.:4-5 cards)) and a Claws of Gix. Yep, think of it like the third zuran. But this can take off the oath's spirits (but this isn't that important) and, mostly, if we can control the game, and take it to the long, we can use it with our Soldiers. Good,with zuran, in prevision of a storm
Orim+Abeyance i think those too are no comments, aren't they?
Here we go with the winner. I tried Exalted, Belcher. Exalted isnt' that good (i tried it before putting in the humilities, obv ), because we are better with the hum, great tool. Belcher NO. NOT BELCHER. it suffers nullrod, pithing, artifact hate. And we can take those with the ZO and SR, but NOT with the winner. Discarded.
Mesa. The mesa is a great card, but the thing that made me discard it is the cost of a pegasus each turn. Especially when just casted, i want to stay tranquil. (but a pegasus costs 2, vs the 3 of a soldier).
Now, the Mobilization; costs 3 mana, 3 for making a 1/1 token. Wowsers, it's really is a lot of mana. Yep, but i can w/o problems put it in middle(even early) game, without worrying about the cost of a pegasus, and use it when needed. Now i'm using it, i'm pretty happy.
Why, you'll ask me, don't you play any acceleration card? Sol Ring, Vault, etc...?
That's because we don't NEED them. Parfait has a good straight forward strategy; we have to do something in turn 1-2-3 than putting in accelerators.

The things i think i'm going to change are:
-1 Sanctum
+1 Plains

-2 Mobilization
+2 Mesa (but if i do that i have to count on going to late game to play it) - this is the choice i major think about.

The sideboard is this:
4 Serenity - Vs about all, from stacker to tps, from oath to FCG
4 Tormod - Wow, no comment
4 true believer - Storm incoming?
3 Abolish - Instant removal; often i'm thinking to take out 1 seal and another card to put 2x this in maindeck...

Here is the deck. I think it can do really something. 
LmK

Akabane

[Joblin Velder]

I really liked Charbelcher as a win condition in the deck. It doubles as removal, too. Sacred Mesa always seemed way slow.

[Limbo]

Also, Isochron Scepter can combo nicely with all the cheap instants you already play.

[akabane]

Also, Isochron Scepter can combo nicely with all the cheap instants you already play.

Isochron? And why?
This deck have a defined strategy; we CAN'T waste our turn-2, or 3, for going with Isochron+AnyInstant.
Because we have to be speedy with our responses.
Wow! We go turn 2 isochron+orim (example). His turn, land and storm. Wow! WOOOW!
...
In that case we might have taken double orim or orim+any other card.
We can't afford that type of solution.
Secondly, this implies a change-of-strategy in the deck, making it more slow and less responsive; because our game plan isn't anymore to ANNOY THE OPPONENT, but PLAY THE ISOCHRON.
This is really foolish, imho.

[Limbo]

In the example you give the sceptre is indeed bad. But then again, if your opponent has a Misdirection, even Ancestral Recall isn't the best of cards.

So let us look at it more objectively:

You don't play replenish, so you might as well play disenchant instead of Seal of Cleansing. That would give you 16 cards to imprint on the scepter. The argivian finds could be replaced by scepters, as the seals are probably the only cards you want to / can return.

And then it is a matter of knowing when to cast the scepter. Of course, if you fear your opponent will go for the combo-win, you keep back your mana. But if you expect / know you have an extra turn, you can try to chant lock them.

As for a more speedy kill, goblin charbelcher would do the trick if you are able to tax out all your land.

[TheUprisal]

I love rogue ideas.  And I love Parfait. 

My question has always been, how can you have such a slow win condition in Mobilization without a HARD lock?

(Sure, there's no such thing as a hard lock anymore, even in stax, but you know what I mean)

Im quite impressed;  truly, I am. I would say, consider Exalted Angel, but she doesn't play well with Humility.

Mobilization provides unlimited tokens...hmm.  Better than the aforementioned Sacred Mesa?

[andrewpate]

Actually, I would say that first turn "Workshop, Trinisphere, second turn Strip Mine, Crucible of Worlds" would constitute a hard lock.  The only thing that can save you is double-Elvish Spirit Guide, so I'm going to call that "close enough." 

Anyway, I tend to agree that Mobilization is a bad kill.  I mean, at 1.5 times the token-production speed, Sacred Mesa's upkeep is already ameliorated and it becomes better, not to mention the part where Flying is much, much better than Vigilance when you are not under Humility.  That said, I don't even think that Sacred Mesa is the right call.  I can't see any reason to play a slow, creature-based kill when you could be playing Goblin Charbelcher.  At the very least, you should throw in one copy of Belcher so that you don't scoop to Cranial Extraction on your kill condition.

One thing I really like about this deck is the fact that Land Tax lets you really abuse Library of Alexandria.  It seems like a good deck to go with if you have only a Library as far as money cards and you are trying to go no-proxy.  I do wonder about the other untutorable singleton lands, though.  Is Kor Haven really necessary?  I would especially advocate cutting those cards if you add Goblin Charbelcher (which I think you should), since they can't be ripped out and would clog up Belcher activations.

[Jacob Orlove]

Check out this list that actually made T8 in Germany (http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=25547.0):

Maindeck (62 cards):
3 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Isochron Scepter
1 Scrabbling Claws
3 Scroll Rack
2 Zuran Orb

2 Lightning Helix
2 Blood Moon

1 Balance
1 Decree of Justice
2 Disenchant
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Argivian Find
1 Aura of Silence
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Humility
4 Land Tax
1 Moat
4 Orim's Chant

1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Diamond

2 Mountain
16 Plains

Sideboard (15):
1 Abeyance
1 Abolish
1 Blood Moon
1 Decree of Justice
2 Fire/Ice
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyroclasm
3 Rack and Ruin
1 Scrabling Claws
1 Tormod's Crypt

Red just adds so much to the deck.

[dicemanx]

In my opinion, one of the big selling points for Parfait was the opportunity to splash red to play 4 Blood Moons, along with 4 Argivian Finds to get back countered/destroyed combo pieces. You might want to do a quick search in the archives for Razor's (Ray Mitchell's) build for your starting point, as I think that he came up with one of the most potent Parfait builds of all time.

[akabane]

i'm now only replying to Jacob Orlove, i'm in hurry.
That decklist, imho, isn't GOOD at all, to me, at least.

Ok, the RED splash is good; but i will take this strategy.
I'm thinking;
we have that GOOD card that's Humility.
Yow, we have red; ok
3 main blood moon are this good,
and
Slice and Dice is a really COOL card now; with 3 hum, 2 cycling slice and dice are really useful...don't you think too?

So the adds maybe:
+2/3 blood moon
+2 slice and dice
+2 mountains
+1 sol ring (at least this)

Ok.
Now returning to the decklist

3 charbelcher
what? THREE? I MEAN, 3 belcher? Really exaggerate, imho, 2 are enough, really.
scepter; i really don't like this card, makes us really weak to nullrod, and isn't this good when using it, i tried it.
1 claws; interesting. I can try one of this MD, with 2 zuran and 1 claws of gix.
2 helix: i mean, wtf? you really DON'T need those :tsk:
1 decree: 4 finishers? and with which mana does he think to use it?
i only see 2 argivian; with all of those r&r-calling artifacts, only 2? are we joking?
no seals? wow.
1 moat: also with humilty and decree, does aggro worry you so much?
No abeyance? And why, on the earth?
Imho, this deck isn't nor aggro, nor control, nor both. This leads no way.
It hasn't the parfait strategy nor the strategy of a classic "control" deck.

I'm very happy he did perform so well; but i don't think it is a good build, sorry.

Soon my new decklist, with red
bye
aka

[Tha Gunslinga]

If you're running 4 of both Chant AND Abeyance, how could you NOT find room for a set of Scepters?  Just play the Scepter turn 4 if you want, but a very large number of your cards can go on Scepter.

[Fubar]

The problem I always had with parfait is of course the speed.  Land Tax/ scroll rack is bloody slow, thus you need lots of fast artifact mana to compensate.  But there isn't much to look at since the deck is hungry for W not colourless.  This always led me to put i more artifacts, thus diluting the strategy.
If anyone knows of a good way to produce W without lands (ESG style) i'd love for you to tell me.  I was even experimenting with marble diamond!!
The synergy between Tax/tithe & Library is sick, thats why I often went the wayfarer route.
I honestly don't know if there is any way to make traditional parfait viable, maybee by going blueberryparfait?  But then you need to explain why you are playing blueberry parfait, instead of a superior control strategy. 
If only they would get the stick out of their bums and unban Tax in legacy.

[The Dark One]

3 charbelcher
what? THREE? I MEAN, 3 belcher? Really exaggerate, imho, 2 are enough, really.

He played just two of them the list posted by Jacob is not correct.

1 claws; interesting. I can try one of this MD, with 2 zuran and 1 claws of gix.

This should be a Phyrexian Furnace, but we didn´t find one in time.

2 helix: i mean, wtf? you really DON'T need those :tsk:

Helix is included to kill FCG and to give you an additional finisher, when imprinted on Isochron Scepter.

1 decree: 4 finishers? and with which mana does he think to use it?

The Decree was meant to be a weapon against control. Do you know a better one in that slot?

no seals? wow.

Seal are not good with Scepters. Disenchant is better there.

1 moat: also with humilty and decree, does aggro worry you so much?

Before the tournament started I thought this too, but he lost to FCG.

I am happy about this thead, because Parfait was one of my favourite decks for a long time and I hope you will find a competitive build.

[UR]

In Humility's defence, it also stops the Worldgorger Dragon combo. Ofcourse they will try to kill you before you can play it, but once it is in play it really is a %#&$) to get rid of. But then... this deck runs so much maindeck hate against Dragon that it will likely own that deck anyway.

But there are other decks that are severely affected by Humility although it is a bit slow. Not just FCG. Oath comes to mind...

[akabane]

Here is my fresh build:

12 Plains
3 Wasteland *NEW!*
1 Strip Mine *NEW!*
1 Kor Haven
1 Maze of Ith

4 Argivian Find

2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Abolish *NEW!*
1 Aura of Silence

2 Mobilization/Sacred Mesa

2 Isochron Scepter *NEW!*

4 Land Tax
3 Tithe
3 Scroll Rack
2 Zuran Orb
1 Claws of Gix

4 Orim's Chant
4 Abeyance

3 Humility

1 Balance
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Enlightened Tutor


3 Waste+1 Strip: This is REALLY useful. In case we start "slow" we can slow down opponent too, destroying his moxen and stripping his lands. I really WANT the Crucible, maybe it can enter in place of the Maze.

2 Abolish: I really NEED sometimes an instant removal, this is the best. Along with the 2 seals+aura it is good.

2 Isochrons: I tried 3,4. Too much. Then, i tried 2 of them. It did well. Really good; when the play is stalling an orim can backup an isochron with abeyance, orim or stp. good lock
Obviously it mustn't be played so easy, it must be a FORCED CHOOSE.

For the rest the deck kept the same form; the only changes i would like to do are the
1) MonoCrucible;
-1 Maze of Ith
+1 Crucible

2) At least one more land; but i really don't know WHAT to subtract to the list.

What do you think about it?

[Liek]

I don't know anything about Parfait, but here are some things that come to mind.

I don't really understand how the mana works in this deck. Humilty costs 4, and you'll need a Chant or Abeyance to get around thier Mana Drain. And there's no Black Lotus, Mox anything, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt or any other acceleration to speed things up. You just play one land every turn. Would a green splash for Fastbond and Exploration help? Or does the deck resolve its expensive cards without too much trouble?

The other thing I didn't get are the 4 Argivian Finds. They get back Seal of Cleansing, but there's only two (and a small assortment of one-ofs.) Find seems really good with Black Lotus. What else are you trying to do with this card?

Chalice of the Void seems pretty good in here. It looks like you are trying to slow the opponent down to your speed, if they can't play Moxen and such you'll be able to take control easier. And it does other things.

Rule of Law can slow down Storm decks. True Believer or Ivory Mask can prevent you from being killed by things.

And if you don't play Lotus and Pearl and etc. because you cannot (due to not owning them/not playing in proxy tournaments,) I apologize for being a jerk and telling you to play something you don't have access to.