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Author Topic: 3cc, building and playing it right.  (Read 15487 times)
forests failed you
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« Reply #60 on: December 01, 2005, 02:38:03 pm »

It isn't a flawed deck, but it is actually a completely different deck.

I actually see two reasons for playing a 3cc control deck, and they are as follows.

1.  Access to white.

2.  You want 50-50 match ups around the board, with few slanted in your favor and few slanted against you.

The best reason to play white is actually access to Disenchat.  That card is so fucking good right now.  If Slaver actually had access to this card it would be fucking nuts.  The main reason I don't like UBR control is that you don't actually have access to any new cards that Gifts or Slaver can't already play; so why not just play those decks they are clearly more powerful.

White gives you Swords, Balance and Disenchat.  Not to mention a mighty fine win condition in Decree of Justice.  If one wants to play a more pure control role in the meta game UBW is the way to go.

Secondly, aside from Slaver UBW has fairly good match ups around the board.  Especially if you can play the deck flawlessly, there are not to many match ups that you can't win


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« Reply #61 on: December 01, 2005, 03:35:52 pm »

It isn't a flawed deck, but it is actually a completely different deck.

I actually see two reasons for playing a 3cc control deck, and they are as follows.

1.  Access to white.

2.  You want 50-50 match ups around the board, with few slanted in your favor and few slanted against you.

The best reason to play white is actually access to Disenchat.  That card is so fucking good right now.  If Slaver actually had access to this card it would be fucking nuts.  The main reason I don't like UBR control is that you don't actually have access to any new cards that Gifts or Slaver can't already play; so why not just play those decks they are clearly more powerful.

White gives you Swords, Balance and Disenchat.  Not to mention a mighty fine win condition in Decree of Justice.  If one wants to play a more pure control role in the meta game UBW is the way to go.

Secondly, aside from Slaver UBW has fairly good match ups around the board.  Especially if you can play the deck flawlessly, there are not to many match ups that you can't win

I agree with this 100% The ONLY reason that I'm running the 4th color is to have access to the ReB main and the Shaman. It should be noted that if I drop reb, which my team has been going back and forth on, I'd most certainly run at least one main.

Well, orgcandman, after seeing your response and looking at your decklist, we just have fundamenatally different ways of looking at control. Most of your logic is sound, but I feel it is outdated. I also I feel your deck is somewhat random. I mean no disrespect in saying so, of course. Your arguments, though, are quite situational and perhaps don't represent true "in game" situations.
What you need to remember about multi-colored control is that it actually IS a metagame deck. It's a deck full of answers. Answers are defined by threats, which are meta dependant. Currently, the meta is stax, gifts, cs, and oath.

Your example of using Cunning Wish to get back a card lost to Scrying is a great example. The synergy between the two cards is great, and is something I explored at length six months ago. But such a strategy should be done with multiple Cunning Wishes and a sideboard option that takes advantage of the versitality of the cards. One lone Cunning Wish seems random and very situational. In your example, you are first turn Ancestraling, then Scrying, Wishing, and Ancestraling again over the next couple of turns. Very, very situational, and not a reason to run one Wish. A side note; I don't understand how you can power-up multiple Scryings early with only 4 Fetchlands and no Wastes.
Well, I have a lotus petal, 2 duress, and instants that I'm not afraid to remove, thanks to cunning wish. Duress will hit the graveyard easier than wasteland due to the number of basics running around.

Look, you run 2 Plows, 2 Pithing Needles. I run 4 Engineered Explosives. Both of us can deal with Welders. I feel, though, that the 4 EE sets me up for a better long game with more a versitaile card. One Plow kills one Welder. One EE sweeps the board of 1cc spells. Still, if I were playing white, I would run Plow. I don't blame you for doing so, I just disagree that 4cc is better than 3cc.
EE just sets you up to get will-owned. Swords puts those welders where they belong: Back in the deck box.

You have 1 Cunning Wish, 1 Red Blast, 2 Swords, 2 Duresses, 2 Needles and 1 Shaman maindeck. Genearlly, when I see a decklist like that I kinda assume a deck is trying to do way too much and, as a result, won't be doing anything very well. All of these cards are situational "bombs". Shaman just owns a lot of decks right now. Duress is great in a pinch. Needle can shut down an entire deck strategy. Still, you have so many 1 and 2 of's with these situational cards that I don't see you having what you need when you need it.
The rest of the deck though is 4 brainstorm, 4 scrying, tutors, "free" win condition, fof, ancestral, and brokenness. It's VERY consistent.

I see an opponent laying a Bazzar and you not having the Needle, instead having the Plow or Duress in hand. I see an opponent playing a Uba Mask and you don't have the Shaman or Wish, you have a Red Blast in hand instead. I see an opponent playing a Echoing Truth on your tokens, and you have a Plow or Needle instead of your Red Blast. There is nothing like having the exact card you need when you need it, but with 1 and 2 of's, that just isn't likely. Vamp makes this a little less sketchy. You certianly should have Vamp maindeck. Also, if using Balance for devestating board advantage is your style, then you should definately be running Vamp so you can Balance early.
Yes, this is sure to happen, but you'll notice something: 4 brainstorm, 4 scrying, ancestral, fof, and 3 decrees. These each put new cards in your hand. 13 spells for drawing cards. That doesn't even count the tutors or library. If you want to count those as well, you've got 15 spells that put new cards in your hand vs. my 18. That's almost 1/3 of my deck devoted to seeing new cards. and 3 more than you've got. Should I add the vamp, I'll have 19. I'll have no problems seeing what I need.

And Lotus Petal? To me, that should be Fetchland #5. Especially in a 4cc deck.
Wait, you mean you don't like turn 1 drain? You don't like fast color fixing? It should be noted that petal has the same synnergy with scrying as fetch.

Regarding wasteland:
It should also be noted that I get away with freeing up 2 additional slots, AND run 4 colors, rather than your mana base, which has to do with you running wastes. I could easily drop red and free up those 2 slots (maindeck reb and shaman) for something like 2 disenchant or vamp + disenchant, or dimir cutpurse and shadowmage infiltrator if I really wanted to. Call it metagaming, call it experimenting, call it whatever you want.

-Aaron
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