BUG Dragon

[merfolkOTPT]

Hey there i have been following the Open Forum discussion of Dragon for a while and i was wondering at the lack of attention to BUG.  I haven't been able to test this but i am thinking about putting together the following deck and i was wondering if anyone had decent critiques of it, since i haven't seen another list in quite a while.
For reference i am unpowered but playing in a 10 proxy format so i will list what the proxies are in the list as i go.

BUG Dragon
Creatures
4x Worldgorger Dragon (is 3 possible, good at all?)
4x Squee Goblin Nabob
3x Xantid Swarm
1x Ambassador Laquatus
1x Caller of the Claw
Search
4x Intuition
2x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Life from the Loam/Lim-dul's vault?
0x Compulsion
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Crop Rotation
1x Ancestral Recall (proxy)
4x Bazaar of Baghdad (proxy)
Animation
2x Animate Dead
2x Dance of the Dead
3x Necromancy
Forces
4x Force of Will( as the other forum is saying do we need this / can 14 blue cards including Force itself support the inclusion)
Mana
1x Mox Jet (proxy)
1x Mox Sapphire (proxy)
1x Mox Emerald (proxy)
1x Black Lotus (proxy)
1x Mana Crypt (proxy)
1x Sol ring
1x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
3x Underground Sea
3x Bayou
2x Tropical Island
1x Swamp
2x Island


SideBoard
1x Xantid Swarm
2x Verdant Force
3x Pernicious Deed
3x Blue Elemental Blast
4x Duress
2x Arcane LAB
4x Null rod


I always was thinking about a slot for shadow of doubt or stifle in the SB but i think this sideboard best fits the meta too which i am returning.  Sorry about the lack of match up analysis, i am away at school at the moment and have a Mac which makes it harder to test but i am about to be home for quite a while and i want this to be as ready as i can be "pre" testing.  Anything in the list is debateable so please comment in any way you can.


EDIT : CHANGED SOME Of THE CARDS and Trying a new mana base.  Also the sideboard has changed up, i noticed in those reports (thanks JDizzle) that he used null rod in the sideboard against tormod's crypt, is this still solid?  Thanks

[TerrorHawk]

I believe four WGD are needed.  Running four increases your chances of seeing it early, and then winning.

I'm not a huge fan of crop rotation here.  I know it can be a bomb, but I would rather see another Intuition or Lim-Dul's Vault here.

I haven't tested a build without FoW yet, but plan on doing so soon .  If you're really worried about getting cards to pitch to it, try Sliver Queen over Caller of the Claw.

Running white in BUG dragon is a mistake, IMO.  Your manabase is already vulnerable, and drawing that Plains seems really bad.  Ray of Revelation can be Bazaar-ed, Compulsed, and Intuitioned into the yard to be played for its flashback cost.  With that said, I don't think the deck really needs StP, so cut the white.  Null Rods could be nice in the board, and possibly Chalice over Arcane Lab.

Here is a manabase you may be happier with:

4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Island

1 Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire

Hope that helped
~TH

[Disburden]

I am aware that my post may be lacking in content to some extent, but with all the attention on new dredge cards right now I think it is highly appropriate to add Life From the Loam to BUG and 5C versions of Dragon. Actually anything running Bazaar-Squee with green can run it, which is great verses Wasteland heavy metas. Could be even better than compulsion, which I never really liked much.

[UR]

It is possible to cut the fourth Dragon but I wouldn't recommend it. Having the fourth means you can set up faster.

If you want space in your deck I would suggest cutting 1 Compulsion. You will rarely use it as it is only good if there is a Pithing Needle in play naming Bazaar. That is why I use it anyway... I feel the cards slows Dragon down.

I guess the Caller of the Claw is a metagame call, but I prefer running the Eternal Witness kill because it kills on this turn rather than the next and is harder for your opponent to stop.

Also, I would subsitute two Animate Dead with two Dance of the Dead. I know it sounds stupid, but I've had so much trouble getting around Meddling Mages at times that I've decided to run all three. I remember one game where the guy had three Mages (on all three Animate Effects) but that was just luck on his part (he knew my deck and he was playing UW Control so I never stood a chance).

And if you can afford it, I would urge you to go and find a Sol Ring and a Mana Crypt. Like the moxen, they speed up the deck quite significantly.

Just some random thoughts...

P.S. Since you are okay with white cards in your board, substitute the Arcane Laborotory for Rule of Law. It does exactly the same thing but it can't be Red Elemental Blasted...

[Zomar]

P.S. Since you are okay with white cards in your board, substitute the Arcane Laborotory for Rule of Law. It does exactly the same thing but it can't be Red Elemental Blasted...

I think arcane laborotory is better here. You need force of will early against decks you bring arcane lab in against, arcane lab being blue increases your chances of that. It is unlikely that people will bring in REB against you anyway.

[Lunar]

Things ive noticed...

Yes you CAN run 3 Dragons rather than four...it MIGHT slow you down from time to time, but I really havnt had any problems with this in builds ive used with only 3...with all the tutoring and draw power of the deck it really isnt much of a problem to get one quickly...

IS compulsion good in your build? You arent running the eternal witness kill, so you dont 100% need a way to draw out your whole deck...Try running more tutors or more draw in this spot instead, see how you like it. (Im using 2xThirst for Knowledge right now and they are pretty hot overall, at least give it a shot) Compulsion can be a big Tempo loss for the deck though, and that can be bad...maybe run 1 if you really feel you need it still, but id go down to 1 at the most...

14 cards is enough to run FoW....I still like FoW more so than the other options as it gives me some outs when on the draw and can really really be useful later in the game...also if you are going to win via eternal witness this is a little better than xantid/duress...with eternal witness as a kill the set up should probably be xantid/force....(on a side note...if you are having problems with UW control or keeperish stuff, id try out 3xXantid and 3-4xDuress rather than either with FoW...)

Arcane Laboratory is much better than Rule of Law...first off you are already supporting blue better in your mana base...second off it pitches to FoW if you are running it...third very very very very very few people are going to bring in REB against you...

Animate/DoD/Necromancy...if you are going to run 7 animate spells id do 2 animate 2 DoD 3 Necromancy also...while its not a gigantic deal it can help against meddling mage at times (although really...if they can get out 3 mages against you naming all three then you were probably going to lose anyways...)

Life from the Loam...its decent I suppose, but the question as always is what are you going to swap it for?  You really need Squee, although I generally run 3xSquee 1xDeath Spark instead..so maybe 3xSquee 1xLftL...I dunno though...more testing needs to happen on that card here...

I really dont understand why you wouldnt just go with a 5color mana base if you want to run 4 colors anyways...at least then you can consistantly play your white spells and not conflict when chosing what to fetch for...id either stick to 3 colors max with duals or go up to all 5 colors and run Hale's mana setup (its pretty good, especially with Oath getting popular again...I LOVE using orchard against them, heh)

Since you seem to be at 9 proxies, I might also suggest going with a 4th mox....just a thought, especially if you are set on going with 4 colors, then adding Mox Pearl seems like a decent idea to me...

Running Ray of Revelation without white in your deck is not really very good...id ignore that tidbit of advice, heh...either run with white (and thus a 5color base) or cut white all together...you can always run Naturalize to deal with enchantments if you really think you need it...But here again, this is a meta call...I love 5color dragon with rays in the SB against oath...

Rather than 3 BeB id run a death spark or darkblast here...both work pretty well, and im not 100% on which I like better in Bazaar decks...death spark seems to work so much better with bazaar, but darkblast can act like a bazaar for you...both are solid...maybe 1 of each to deal with welders...

If you really have been reading the discussion in the Open forum you should have noticed when Purple Hat chimed in and explained his choice of StP for Gencon...he also explains (as do some others) why StP really isnt super optimal in Dragon...

[Komatteru]

You need 4 Intuitions.  Anyone who runs less than 4 doesn't understand how the deck works.  As for BUG Dragon, read these and you will be enlightened:

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=18767.0
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=19811.0
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=20707.0
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=19551.0

Start with Ben Perry's work on the deck and advance from there.  It is well worth the while if you want to work on 3-color Dragon.  Yeah, they're from quite some time ago, but Ben's work on the deck was soooo ahead of its time.

[Disburden]

I forgot how awesome these reports were. Thank, J Dizzle!

[oldbsturgeon]

i think something that might be important to consider when playing bug dragon, specifically the win conditions, is what is being played around you
take for instance at the last SCG chicago, oath was played alot so the ambassador might not have been a good choice due to blessing.
for you, if you like the ambassador i would continue with it, but if oath becomes popular in your area, i would go with witness.
personally when i was playing originally used ambassador, though switched to witness and triskelion. it worked for me but may not be for everyone.
with regards to 4 intuition being a must that is not necessarily true, but could be more true if you have less discard outlets such as compulsion. the good thing is it just gives you more blue cards for force.

[Disburden]

i think something that might be important to consider when playing bug dragon, specifically the win conditions, is what is being played around you
take for instance at the last SCG chicago, oath was played alot so the ambassador might not have been a good choice due to blessing.
for you, if you like the ambassador i would continue with it, but if oath becomes popular in your area, i would go with witness.
personally when i was playing originally used ambassador, though switched to witness and triskelion. it worked for me but may not be for everyone.
with regards to 4 intuition being a must that is not necessarily true, but could be more true if you have less discard outlets such as compulsion. the good thing is it just gives you more blue cards for force.

You're 100% right about the meta game and how it affects your win condition choices. I see a lot of Root Maze (weird) where I play, so I use Caller of the claw and the Ambassador. I wouldn't use anything else right now when I play out against people in my area.

The one thing I Dissagree about though is the amounts of Intuitions. I feel four is the right number, it IS the deck a long with Bazaar/Squee engine. I wouldn't run any less than four.

[Komatteru]

How to deal with Root Maze: Animate the Dragon.  Oh, look, a mandatory loop.  Thanks for playing.  Next game.  Repeat until Root Maze doesn't show up.

How to deal with Blessing: Sliver Queen. Thanks for playing.

Ben played BUG Dragon at SCG Chicago last October (the first one), where Oath was all over the place.  He would have made T8 had he not somehow managed to lose to HyperMUD in the last round.

[UR]

How to deal with Root Maze: Animate the Dragon.  Oh, look, a mandatory loop.  Thanks for playing.  Next game.  Repeat until Root Maze doesn't show up.

Don't forget to board in your Caller of the Claw  . I have in in my board because Rootmaze is a pretty popular card and whacking them with an infinite number of 2/2 creatures doesn't seem like a bad plan.

[oldbsturgeon]

Ben played BUG Dragon at SCG Chicago last October (the first one), where Oath was all over the place.  He would have made T8 had he not somehow managed to lose to HyperMUD in the last round.

if you are talking about kowal he did T8 at the richmond the following january with dragon, got 3rd, which is the highest the deck has placed in a while.

[Disburden]

Ben played BUG Dragon at SCG Chicago last October (the first one), where Oath was all over the place.  He would have made T8 had he not somehow managed to lose to HyperMUD in the last round.

if you are talking about kowal he did T8 at the richmond the following january with dragon, got 3rd, which is the highest the deck has placed in a while.

He is talking about Ben Perry. He mentions him, like what, four posts up from here with links to his tourney reports.

[dicemanx]

In my opinion, its come to a point where BUG destabilizes the mana base to a significant extent in comparison to B/U that there is little reason to not switch over to a 5C mana base. Given that you can now run Life from the Loam to essentially portect your Bazaar, there is a diminished need to run the much slower Compulsion in the deck (and Compulsion was one of the bigger reasons to run BUG over 5C). BUG always had issues supporting both Xantids and Lim Dul's Vault, and it misses out on some nice tricks out of the SB (Ray of Revelation, Sacred Ground, *Abeyance* etc).

[Komatteru]

How is adding lands that give opponents creatures and making every land in your deck vulnerable to Wasteland possibly stabilizing the manabase?

[forests failed you]

Ben is savage though.  Regular rules of metagaming and good v bad match ups do not apply when playing against Mr. Perry.  Ben Perry is his own walking metagame, and respects no other deck.  In fact, more often than not when he is in a poor board position he will go all out and kill himself trying to win, rather than play it safe, simply to save an opponent the satisfaction of actually winning premptively.

C'mon the man designs decks like this:  Um, well let's run the restricted list and Spoils of the vault.

[dicemanx]

How is adding lands that give opponents creatures and making every land in your deck vulnerable to Wasteland possibly stabilizing the manabase?

What I meant to say was - if you are going to weaken the manabase by splashing G in B/U, you might as well weaken it a bit further and go all the way with 5C instead.

[Goochem]

I have a few questions about sideboarding with BUG Dragon, and I was hoping someone could answer them:

1) How do you side versus Gifts or Slaver with SB needles? Do you change your strategy, siding in Verdant Forces/Titans, along with Duresses and Rods? And do you also side in artifact removal (oxidize / deeds) to take out a needle?
2) How about versus Oath?
3) How about versus decks from which you don't know what hate cards to expect?
4) When do you side in Deeds?

Thanks in advance.