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Author Topic: T4 Question about Grinning Totem  (Read 1358 times)
Hi-Val
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« on: November 21, 2005, 04:04:50 pm »

I'm playing a T4 game, and it's about to be my turn. At EOT, I use Grinning Totem on the guy with Grab the Reins in his deck. He Stifles, and I counter. Will I be able to play Grab on my upkeep, with the delayed trigger from Totem on the stack, or not? Thanks!
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« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2005, 04:18:47 pm »

Grinning Totem sez:

Quote
{2}, {Tap}, Sacrifice Grinning Totem: Search target opponent’s library for a card and remove that card from the game. Then that player shuffles his or her library. Until the beginning of your next upkeep, you may play that card. At the beginning of your next upkeep, if you haven’t played the card, put it into its owner’s graveyard.

So, yes, Totem has a triggered ability, which can be responded to with instants.  The ability granted by Totem doesn't end until the trigger resolves.
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« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2005, 11:10:28 pm »

Grinning Totem sez:

Quote
{2}, {Tap}, Sacrifice Grinning Totem: Search target opponent’s library for a card and remove that card from the game. Then that player shuffles his or her library. Until the beginning of your next upkeep, you may play that card. At the beginning of your next upkeep, if you haven’t played the card, put it into its owner’s graveyard.

So, yes, Totem has a triggered ability, which can be responded to with instants.  The ability granted by Totem doesn't end until the trigger resolves.

I believe this is only partially correct and in the end, gives a wrong answer. It is true that Grinning Totem has a triggered ability which can be responded to. However, that ability has nothing to do with playing the card in question.

Grinning Totem also generates a continuous effect when you activate its ability. This affect allows you to play the card "until the beginning of your next upkeep."

So, at the end of your opponent's turn, you activate the totem and place the ability on the stack.  Your opponent uses his spell for the turn to Stifle that ability and you use your spell for the turn to counter the stifle.

You both pass priority a few times to let everything resolve and his turn ends. The static ability that would allow you to play the spell is still active.

You move to your untap step and the static ability is active,  however nobody receives priority.

You now move to your upkeep. At this point,all 'until the beginning of upkeep' effects end and triggered abilities go on the stack. Once this is done, you receive priority. This is the first time since the totem ability resolved that you had the opportunity to play a spell and its too late.
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« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2005, 04:11:18 pm »

The old ruling was that you had until the trigger resolved to play the card.

However, the current Oracle text (which is different now) seems to imply that the ability to play the card ends as soon as the upkeep begins and that a delayed trigger is there only to clean things up and put the card into the graveyard.

I will research this further.
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2005, 06:47:02 am »

I think Jebus is right and no further research is needed. It is just as the card says: after the ability has resolved, you have a continuous effect that allows you to play the card. This effect lasts until the beginning of the next upkeep.

There is no way that you can untap and then play the removed card.

The delayed trigger makes the card end up in the GY instead of being RFG for the rest of the game. You can respond to this trigger with lotsa things, but not with playing of the removed card, because the continuous effect of the Totem just ended.
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2005, 04:09:58 pm »

Afaik, Jeebus is correct.
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