bomberman: SCG list and improvements... maybe.

[electroburn6]

After I read the announcement for the Mana Drain Open 8, I wanted to dust off my FoWs and Duals and play some good, quality vintage.  So, in looking for a deck-list of some idea i might want to try, I came across this:

Maindeck:

Artifacts
3 Aether Spellbomb
1 Black Lotus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Sol Ring

Creatures
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Meddling Mage
3 Trinket Mage

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
2 Disenchant
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Thirst For Knowledge

Sorceries
1 Time Walk

Basic Lands
6 Island
1 Plains

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
1 Library Of Alexandria
1 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
4 Tundra

Sideboard:
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Exalted Angel
4 Energy Flux
3 Abeyance
2 Misdirection
1 Shadow Of Doubt
2 Swords To Plowshares

I liked the idea of the salvagers combo (I havent been active lately, but some may recollect my 3-tourney top-8 streak with salvagers oath, starting with the Mana Drain Open 6 ), so I decided to give it a shot.  There are three problems I dont like, and I think I have some solutions:

Number One:  The combo
I think its missing the pyrite spellbomb.  With this list, you can still get infinite mana and draw your deck, then play your creatures and time walk and swing, but i dont like that plan very much.  I think pyrite spellbomb is a much cleaner kill card, and you still have the big swing to fall back on if you need it.  I just need to figure something to cut for it.  maybe one of the Aether spellbombs

Number Two:  Where the hell is salvager?
In goldfishing the deck, I have had quite a bit of trouble in finding the salvager.  Lotus and an artifact to recur are easy enough with trinket mage, but finding the salvager is a tougher endevor.  The card draw can sometimes find it, but it is not consistent enough.  This is one problem I dont have an answer to.  This is something i need help on.

Number Three:  Resolving Salvager
If playing with Salvagers oath taught me something, its that a deck like this hates counters.  Even with the full 8, you have to play the combo piece (this time its upped by two mana, albiet you dont have to cast it by turn 1 or 2) and leave drain mana open.  So I came up with a quirky fix:  Orim's Chant.  I got the idea from the Abeyance in the board.  My logic behind this is that casting it on your turn means you can cast salvager and go off without interruptions against a deck with counters.  But against a deck without counters, you can use it as a time walk, or as a counter to yawg's will or some storm count deck.  So its not really a dead card in too many matchups.

I would appreciate any help you can give me, and am open to suggestions.

[Jank Golem]

Here is my list:

BomberMan:
4 Auriok Salvagers
3 Trinket Mage
4 Meddling Mage
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Tinker
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
1 Time Walk
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 AEther Spellbomb
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tolarian Academy
 

This is the list I am currently running. I am running the pyrite win simply because it is cleaner and easier to pull off. I am running a volcanic island so pyrite is not completely useless.

There are two things I don’t like about the list above:
1. The 6 spellbombs
2. The lack of  moxen
The first thing I am going to address is the spellbombs. Spellbombs are not cards you run because you can, they are cards you run because you have too. I have that I can go off consistently with as little as two spellbombs in the deck. Instead of spellbombs I am running pithing needle, sensei’s divining top and engineered explosives all of which are great answers and much better then spellbombs.

The lack of moxen is understandable if it is for budget reasons however if you can run moxen you must. The deck relies on a card that cost 3W so off color moxen can speed up the deck quite a bit.

The last thing I don’t like about the list is the two maindecked disenchant. I think engineered explosives is a much better and more diverse answer. If your opponent drops a null rod the deck can still go aggro for the win(which I have done many times).

One of the weakness you talked about is having trouble finding salvagers, the one card I see as a possible solution is sensei’s top, but that hardly solves the problem. In the end the list above is soild but there are some weakness in it and the salavgers archtype.

Good luck

[UR]

I've been trying to make this deck work for quite a while and with only limited success. There are some differences with my list though. I'll list the most important ones and tell you why I made these choices.

Intuition - Black Lotus + Aether Spellbomb + Phyrexian Furnace/Pyrite Spellbomb is sexy. It means that you will only need a Salvager to go with it and you will have won. On occasion it also acts as a tutor and fetches three Salvagers.

Artificer's Intuition - Converts all your artifacts into the cheap little artifacts that you need. Usually it is a tutor that fetches Black Lotus but I saw a Phyrexian Furnace in there (Tormod's Crypt is better I think) and that can sometimes come in handy. The mandatory 'pitches to FoW' arguement also applies.

These cards make sure you don't need a gazillion spellbombs and/or other Phyrexian Furnaces to make the combo work.

If playing with Salvagers oath taught me something, its that a deck like this hates counters.  Even with the full 8, you have to play the combo piece (this time its upped by two mana, albiet you dont have to cast it by turn 1 or 2) and leave drain mana open.

I normally try to cast the Salvager after I've Mana Drained something like a Crucible of Worlds. Otherwise, your combo just costs too much mana to realistically pull off. I run a little more counter than you do. Misdirection is FoW number 5 and a few Mana Leaks for good measure.

Balance has also bene really good to me in this deck. It doesn't count artifacts and you are running a lot of them so you are almost guaranteed to take out something except against Stax (hold on to it... Welder hurts... bad).

The trouble with the deck is that it suffers a lot from splash damage. Null Rod outright kills it, Chalice of the Void also makes life hard. There are others. If I ever manage to find a reliable way to deal with them, I will let you know... in the meantime, have fun.

-UR

[electroburn6]

I am running the pyrite win simply because it is cleaner and easier to pull off. I am running a volcanic island so pyrite is not completely useless.

I agree with the fact that spellbombs aren't that good when you draw them, so i dont really see a point to running the volc to use the spellbomb.  when the combo goes off, you have all the mana you need.  I can probably fit in those moxen though.

UR:  I like the intuition idea.  It digs for salvager and the combo.  How many do you play?  I think i could probably drop some furnaces/spellbombs

[UR]

I used to run only two, but I think that I would run three if I were to build the deck again.

[Jank Golem]

Intuition - Black Lotus + Aether Spellbomb + Phyrexian Furnace/Pyrite Spellbomb is sexy. It means that you will only need a Salvager to go with it and you will have won. On occasion it also acts as a tutor and fetches three Salvagers.

I would strongly advise against intuition. I have tested it and found it just to be to weak and narrow. Trinket mage is strictly better then it when looking for lotus. When it comes to finding salvagers it cost to much and you can screw yourself over with it if the salvagers is countered.

Artificer's Intuition - Converts all your artifacts into the cheap little artifacts that you need. Usually it is a tutor that fetches Black Lotus but I saw a Phyrexian Furnace in there (Tormod's Crypt is better I think) and that can sometimes come in handy. The mandatory 'pitches to FoW' arguement also applies.

I have also tested artificer's intuition in the deck and found it not worthy of playing. Trinket mage is better then it because it is easier to play and can be played off drain and moxen mana. The ability to find another artifact besides lotus is rarely useful and having to discard an artifact can also make it a dead card.

I am running the pyrite win simply because it is cleaner and easier to pull off. I am running a volcanic island so pyrite is not completely useless.

I agree with the fact that spellbombs aren't that good when you draw them, so i dont really see a point to running the volc to use the spellbomb. when the combo goes off, you have all the mana you need. I can probably fit in those moxen though.

The reason volcanic is run in the deck is to prevent pyrite from being a dead card. Because running less then 2 spellbombs would hinder the decks ability to go off we are forced to run pyrite. Pyrite has it's uses taking care of welders and getting in those last few points of damage.

[UR]

I have also tested artificer's intuition in the deck and found it not worthy of playing. Trinket mage is better then it because it is easier to play and can be played off drain and moxen mana.

Can you explain to me how a 2U cost is easier than a 1U cost?

Maybe I should add that I'm not playing a pure combo deck. I'm playing it more as a control deck that happens to have a combo for the win. Mana Drain is the MVP in my deck, not the type of tutor you are using.

Trinket Mage is a fine substitute and it has the added bonus of being able to hit for 2. But just like Artificer's Intuition better because of the added flexibility. It doesn't just find my lotus, but my Scabbling Claws (chosen over Phyrexian Furnace actually), my Tormod's Crypt and sometimes my on-color mox (handy when in a Crucible+Strip lock). And like I already mentioned, it costs one less so it comes down on the first turn through an off-color mox and I can keep my mana open on turn two for a counter (i.e. Mana Drain for the win).

[Englishman_in_NH]

The main problem that I have found with Artificier's Intuition is that to get the first artifact it actually costs 1UU plus an artifact in hand. Now this doesn't have to be paid in one turn like trinket mage, so it can come down sooner, but I find I often do not want to get rid of the artifact in hand unless it is DSC and would rather play a random 2/2 that replaces itself with lotus or a utility artifact (be it spellbomb, needle, explosives etc). It is certainly possible to use it, I just feel it uses up too many other resources whilst not being that much better than trinket mage.

[Jank Golem]

I have also tested artificer's intuition in the deck and found it not worthy of playing. Trinket mage is better then it because it is easier to play and can be played off drain and moxen mana.

Can you explain to me how a 2U cost is easier than a 1U cost?

Maybe I should add that I'm not playing a pure combo deck. I'm playing it more as a control deck that happens to have a combo for the win. Mana Drain is the MVP in my deck, not the type of tutor you are using.

Trinket Mage is a fine substitute and it has the added bonus of being able to hit for 2. But just like Artificer's Intuition better because of the added flexibility. It doesn't just find my lotus, but my Scabbling Claws (chosen over Phyrexian Furnace actually), my Tormod's Crypt and sometimes my on-color mox (handy when in a Crucible+Strip lock). And like I already mentioned, it costs one less so it comes down on the first turn through an off-color mox and I can keep my mana open on turn two for a counter (i.e. Mana Drain for the win).

I think Englishman in NH explained this pretty well however I would like to add some things. Trinket mages ability to hit for 2 is undervalued. It is amazing how many games I have won from creature beatdown. One reason why this deck even has a chance is that it does not have win with salavgers. The deck has 2 game plans, combo and creature beatdown. This keeps the deck from dieing to all the hate out there(chalice, null rod SoR).

but my Scabbling Claws (chosen over Phyrexian Furnace actually

I can not understand why you would chose scrabbling claws over phrexyian furnace, unless you are assuming your opponent is an idiot(not a good thing to do by the way).

While I am on the subject of furnace, I really have found it to be too slow. While you can go off with furnace, tormod's crypt is a much better choice because it can get rid of everything. I do play crypt in the board though because it can be dead vs. too many decks.

[electroburn6]

what should be in the board?  i have a rough sketch:
2 disenchant
2-3 tormod's crypt
1 engineered explosives
1 shadow of doubt
3 e-flux
1 pithing needle
4 blank

what else? i play 2 echoing truth in the main.

The reason i put the explosives in the board is cause when i search with tinker mage, i want to find a combo piece, not anything else.

EDIT:  How many mana sources do you think are nessesary?
DOUBLE EDIT:  One problem i have had is determining what to take outfor the sideboard.  The deck is quite tight when you onlly run 2 spellbombs.

[Jank Golem]

Here is my current board:

3 Serenity
3 STP
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Decree of Justice
1 Exalted Angel
3 Tormod’s Crypt

I like seal over disenchant because it can come down early and stay there. I would really advocate running explosives and needle maindeck because they give you answers to cards like mox monkey, goblin welder, bazaar of bagdhad and other cards this deck has trouble answering.

Takeing stuff out for boarding can be difficult, pyrite, needle and meddling mage are all good canidates depending on what you are playing against.

[UR]

I can not understand why you would chose scrabbling claws over phrexyian furnace, unless you are assuming your opponent is an idiot(not a good thing to do by the way).

No, I'm not assuming my opponent is an idiot. Normally, I assume my opponent to be a better player than myself...

But Scabbling Claws isn't meant to wipe out their entire graveyard. I use it as a 'surgical strike' when playing against decks such as Dragon or Gifts. If you are going to try and remove all of their stuff, use TC instead. It does it's job a lot better… (yes, those decks hate Crypt More than Claws or Furnace).

The reason for playing this thing is that you can use it as a 'spellbomb' with a Salvager on the table. Just whack some useless card in your graveyard, draw a card and play it again. Repeat until you hit a spellbomb and proceed to combo normally from there. I know Phyrexian Furnace will do the exact same thing. The reasons for playing the Claws are three-fold;
1) They are foil.
2) You can remove a card of your choice in your graveyard whenever you want. I know this isn’t much of an argument because it will only matter in about 1 of every 1000 games you play.
3) I completely misread the card upon building the deck and I never bothered to switch, figuring that the difference was too minute to bother for what was essentially a casual deck.

Trinket mages ability to hit for 2 is undervalued.

True. But I'm playing Tinker/Colossus so if I want to beat, that is what I will use and I will devote all my resource towards that goal.

[Chiz]

Bomberman  I played Bomberman for the last year or so, I'm Lany's friend (Lany is the deck's creator) and and know pretty much about this deck because... I played it a lot, saw all developments on it and I played against it a lot of time (because it was a really popular deck here, in Québec). So I'll try to awnser you as much as I can.

Number One:  The combo
I think its missing the pyrite spellbomb.  With this list, you can still get infinite mana and draw your deck, then play your creatures and time walk and swing, but i dont like that plan very much.  I think pyrite spellbomb is a much cleaner kill card, and you still have the big swing to fall back on if you need it.  I just need to figure something to cut for it.  maybe one of the Aether spellbombs

Pyrite Spellbomb isn't a good kill card. Why? Because it is useless without the combo. You almost never have acces to with this deck, if you draw a pyrit spellbomb in a game, you will cycle it for .I prefer to have a usefull artifact in the game instead. Aether Spellbomb is really good against Tinker-Colossus, Oath, Dragon...
When you combo off, you can draw all your library, destroy everything in the table that cost 5 or less (With Explosives), drop your meddling mage (Naming everything that may caus you to loose the game), and keeping a hand full of counterspells and most of the time, casting Time Walk. That's enough to win the game event without the time walk.
The only time where pyrit is better, is when you are playing the 5th turn in the additional turns (or the 4th if Time Walk was casted). That's a narrow use... Playing with Pyrit is an error, that's a kill-more card.

Number Two:  Where the hell is salvager?
In goldfishing the deck, I have had quite a bit of trouble in finding the salvager.  Lotus and an artifact to recur are easy enough with trinket mage, but finding the salvager is a tougher endevor.  The card draw can sometimes find it, but it is not consistent enough.  This is one problem I dont have an answer to.  This is something i need help on.

Yeah, finding the Salvager is the hardest thing in this deck. But you shouldn't see the deck as a combo deck. That's a Beatdown-Control-Combo deck. Sure, this deck wins games by comboing, but the deck wins games with Mage Beatdown (TM) . With this deck, you must know when to go combo and when to go Beatdown. That depend of your hand and the other deck... I cannot teach you here really easy...

Number Three:  Resolving Salvager
If playing with Salvagers oath taught me something, its that a deck like this hates counters.  Even with the full 8, you have to play the combo piece (this time its upped by two mana, albiet you dont have to cast it by turn 1 or 2) and leave drain mana open.  So I came up with a quirky fix:  Orim's Chant.  I got the idea from the Abeyance in the board.  My logic behind this is that casting it on your turn means you can cast salvager and go off without interruptions against a deck with counters.  But against a deck without counters, you can use it as a time walk, or as a counter to yawg's will or some storm count deck.  So its not really a dead card in too many matchups.

The abeyance in the sideboard came from me because... I played it maindeck. I really prefer the Abeyance, because it cantrip, which is really better against control deck. I made the change maybe 2 months ago, and I really like it. I add tinker collosus to the deck, and all moxen. If you are interested, here is my curent build of Bomberman:

Artifacts
3 Aether Spellbomb
1 Black Lotus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Sol Ring

Artifact Creature
1 Darkstell Colossus

Creatures
4 Auriok Salvagers
3 Meddling Mage
4 Trinket Mage

Instants
2 Abeyance
1 Ancestral Recall 
3 Brainstorm
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Thirst For Knowledge

Sorceries
1 Time Walk

Basic Lands
4 Island
1 Plains

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
1 Library Of Alexandria
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra

The reason i put the explosives in the board is cause when i search with tinker mage, i want to find a combo piece, not anything else.

The Explosives Maindeck is really good! You can combo off even if there is a CotV in play. If there is a CotV at 1, you cast the Explosives for 0, if the CotV is at 0, you cast the Explosices with , a mana from Mana Drain, Sol Rong or LoA.  I really prefer it over Echoing truth, since you have 5 tutor (4 trinket mage and 1 Tinker) to find it.

I am running the pyrite win simply because it is cleaner and easier to pull off. I am running a volcanic island so pyrite is not completely useless.

I agree with the fact that spellbombs aren't that good when you draw them, so i dont really see a point to running the volc to use the spellbomb. when the combo goes off, you have all the mana you need. I can probably fit in those moxen though.

The spellbomb are somethimes really good!! having a Aether Spellbomb against a deck playing tinker-Colossus, Oath of Druids, Dragon, that's really good! A first turn Furnace against Control Slaver is a really good move! The spellbomb are usefull in general (not always, but they can gives you games!!) They are more usefull than the pyrit spellbomb that is good only the 5th turn of extra turns... Thats a narrow use.

Intuition - Black Lotus + Aether Spellbomb + Phyrexian Furnace/Pyrite Spellbomb is sexy. It means that you will only need a Salvager to go with it and you will have won. On occasion it also acts as a tutor and fetches three Salvagers.

I would strongly advise against intuition. I have tested it and found it just to be to weak and narrow. Trinket mage is strictly better then it when looking for lotus. When it comes to finding salvagers it cost to much and you can screw yourself over with it if the salvagers is countered.

That's what I think of Intuition.

I have also tested artificer's intuition in the deck and found it not worthy of playing. Trinket mage is better then it because it is easier to play and can be played off drain and moxen mana.

Can you explain to me how a 2U cost is easier than a 1U cost?

Maybe I should add that I'm not playing a pure combo deck. I'm playing it more as a control deck that happens to have a combo for the win. Mana Drain is the MVP in my deck, not the type of tutor you are using.

Trinket Mage is a fine substitute and it has the added bonus of being able to hit for 2. But just like Artificer's Intuition better because of the added flexibility. It doesn't just find my lotus, but my Scabbling Claws (chosen over Phyrexian Furnace actually), my Tormod's Crypt and sometimes my on-color mox (handy when in a Crucible+Strip lock). And like I already mentioned, it costs one less so it comes down on the first turn through an off-color mox and I can keep my mana open on turn two for a counter (i.e. Mana Drain for the win).

I think Englishman in NH explained this pretty well however I would like to add some things. Trinket mages ability to hit for 2 is undervalued. It is amazing how many games I have won from creature beatdown. One reason why this deck even has a chance is that it does not have win with salavgers. The deck has 2 game plans, combo and creature beatdown. This keeps the deck from dieing to all the hate out there(chalice, null rod SoR).

That's the way to see the deck. Again, that's a Beatdown-Control-Combo deck. It wins with beatdown or with the combo. I will say that maybe 30-40% of all the games I won with Bomberman was with a beatdown, without the combo... That's a really important part of the deck!


And... Scabbling Claws is inferior to Phyrexian Furnace. Letting the choice to your opponent is bad!


If you have other questions about the deck, let me know, I'll came back to awnser. 

[Jank Golem]

Number One:  The combo
I think its missing the pyrite spellbomb.  With this list, you can still get infinite mana and draw your deck, then play your creatures and time walk and swing, but i dont like that plan very much.  I think pyrite spellbomb is a much cleaner kill card, and you still have the big swing to fall back on if you need it.  I just need to figure something to cut for it.  maybe one of the Aether spellbombs

Pyrite Spellbomb isn't a good kill card. Why? Because it is useless without the combo. You almost never have acces to with this deck, if you draw a pyrit spellbomb in a game, you will cycle it for .I prefer to have a usefull artifact in the game instead. Aether Spellbomb is really good against Tinker-Colossus, Oath, Dragon...
When you combo off, you can draw all your library, destroy everything in the table that cost 5 or less (With Explosives), drop your meddling mage (Naming everything that may caus you to loose the game), and keeping a hand full of counterspells and most of the time, casting Time Walk. That's enough to win the game event without the time walk.
The only time where pyrit is better, is when you are playing the 5th turn in the additional turns (or the 4th if Time Walk was casted). That's a narrow use... Playing with Pyrit is an error, that's a kill-more card.

Having gone back and forth on the pyrite spellbomb descion for over a year now, I think it should be played in the deck. While it's applications during the game are limited(although with volcanic not useless) it is very helpful with comboing off. The main reason is it is simpler to explain and takes less time, this can be very useful when you are tight on time. If you go to 5 turns it is also much better then AEther. It takes 3 turns to win with AEther while only 1 with pyrite. This can and has proved useful to me. Pyrite also is less susciptable to play mistakes, that is never a good arguement though.

Number Two:  Where the hell is salvager?
In goldfishing the deck, I have had quite a bit of trouble in finding the salvager.  Lotus and an artifact to recur are easy enough with trinket mage, but finding the salvager is a tougher endevor.  The card draw can sometimes find it, but it is not consistent enough.  This is one problem I dont have an answer to.  This is something i need help on.

Yeah, finding the Salvager is the hardest thing in this deck. But you shouldn't see the deck as a combo deck. That's a Beatdown-Control-Combo deck. Sure, this deck wins games by comboing, but the deck wins games with Mage Beatdown (TM) . With this deck, you must know when to go combo and when to go Beatdown. That depend of your hand and the other deck... I cannot teach you here really easy...

I would totally agree with this.

Number Three:  Resolving Salvager
If playing with Salvagers oath taught me something, its that a deck like this hates counters.  Even with the full 8, you have to play the combo piece (this time its upped by two mana, albiet you dont have to cast it by turn 1 or 2) and leave drain mana open.  So I came up with a quirky fix:  Orim's Chant.  I got the idea from the Abeyance in the board.  My logic behind this is that casting it on your turn means you can cast salvager and go off without interruptions against a deck with counters.  But against a deck without counters, you can use it as a time walk, or as a counter to yawg's will or some storm count deck.  So its not really a dead card in too many matchups.

Abeyence is interesting however the deck is tight as it is so I have diffaculty cutting cards for it.

The abeyance in the sideboard came from me because... I played it maindeck. I really prefer the Abeyance, because it cantrip, which is really better against control deck. I made the change maybe 2 months ago, and I really like it. I add tinker collosus to the deck, and all moxen. If you are interested, here is my curent build of Bomberman:

Artifacts
3 Aether Spellbomb
1 Black Lotus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Sol Ring

Artifact Creature
1 Darkstell Colossus

Creatures
4 Auriok Salvagers
3 Meddling Mage
4 Trinket Mage

Instants
2 Abeyance
1 Ancestral Recall 
3 Brainstorm
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Thirst For Knowledge

Sorceries
1 Time Walk

Basic Lands
4 Island
1 Plains

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
1 Library Of Alexandria
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra

Your list looks good but is abeyence really better then brainstorm? I will have to try the 4 trinket mage 3 meddling mage configuration.

I am running the pyrite win simply because it is cleaner and easier to pull off. I am running a volcanic island so pyrite is not completely useless.

I agree with the fact that spellbombs aren't that good when you draw them, so i dont really see a point to running the volc to use the spellbomb. when the combo goes off, you have all the mana you need. I can probably fit in those moxen though.

The spellbomb are somethimes really good!! having a Aether Spellbomb against a deck playing tinker-Colossus, Oath of Druids, Dragon, that's really good! A first turn Furnace against Control Slaver is a really good move! The spellbomb are usefull in general (not always, but they can gives you games!!) They are more usefull than the pyrit spellbomb that is good only the 5th turn of extra turns... Thats a narrow use.

I have found furnace to be to slow, isn't pithing needle or boarded crypts better?

I have also tested artificer's intuition in the deck and found it not worthy of playing. Trinket mage is better then it because it is easier to play and can be played off drain and moxen mana.

Can you explain to me how a 2U cost is easier than a 1U cost?

Maybe I should add that I'm not playing a pure combo deck. I'm playing it more as a control deck that happens to have a combo for the win. Mana Drain is the MVP in my deck, not the type of tutor you are using.

Trinket Mage is a fine substitute and it has the added bonus of being able to hit for 2. But just like Artificer's Intuition better because of the added flexibility. It doesn't just find my lotus, but my Scabbling Claws (chosen over Phyrexian Furnace actually), my Tormod's Crypt and sometimes my on-color mox (handy when in a Crucible+Strip lock). And like I already mentioned, it costs one less so it comes down on the first turn through an off-color mox and I can keep my mana open on turn two for a counter (i.e. Mana Drain for the win).

I think Englishman in NH explained this pretty well however I would like to add some things. Trinket mages ability to hit for 2 is undervalued. It is amazing how many games I have won from creature beatdown. One reason why this deck even has a chance is that it does not have win with salavgers. The deck has 2 game plans, combo and creature beatdown. This keeps the deck from dieing to all the hate out there(chalice, null rod SoR).

That's the way to see the deck. Again, that's a Beatdown-Control-Combo deck. It wins with beatdown or with the combo. I will say that maybe 30-40% of all the games I won with Bomberman was with a beatdown, without the combo... That's a really important part of the deck!


And... Scabbling Claws is inferior to Phyrexian Furnace. Letting the choice to your opponent is bad!


If you have other questions about the deck, let me know, I'll came back to awnser. 

My main question for you is about abeyence, is it really that good? Could you also explain the 3 meddling mage 4 trinket mage. Lastly I am wondering what you think of maindecked tops and needles.

Thanks

[ReAnimator]

If you really want an infinite combo piece in here you should run conjurors bauble instead of pyrite.

The reasons for the bauble are;
1 If you are just cycling it it is 1 cheaper than pyrite, which is really relevant in the early game when you are digging.

2 you don't need to run a volcanic for no reason.

Like Chiz said you don't really need an infinite kill but if you really want one Bauble is >>>>> to pyrite.

Mana crypt should definitely be in here. When i was running this deck i always liked first turn trinkets.


Since someone always says "you can't go infinite with bauble it decks you!!!!!LOL" here is how you do it without decking your self:

Draw cards till you have about 7-10 left in your library.
Blow up all your moxes and crypt and other artifacts.
put ancestral or walk on the bottom of you library draw a card.
put all the artifacts on the bottom, while drawing cards.
This will bring the walk to the top of your deck without changing the number of cards in your library.
Repeat this process until you have infinite walks and ancestrals or anything else you want.

This really doesn't take much longer to explain, and realistically how many people don't know how the salvagers combo works ?

[Chiz]

Having gone back and forth on the pyrite spellbomb descion for over a year now, I think it should be played in the deck. While it's applications during the game are limited(although with volcanic not useless) it is very helpful with comboing off. The main reason is it is simpler to explain and takes less time, this can be very useful when you are tight on time. If you go to 5 turns it is also much better then AEther. It takes 3 turns to win with AEther while only 1 with pyrite. This can and has proved useful to me. Pyrite also is less susciptable to play mistakes, that is never a good arguement though.

I desagree. Being easier to explain is not a good argument...
You weaken your mana base (with 1 or 2 volcanic) and weaken your matchups if you play a Pyrit spellbomb. I prefer to have a Spellbomb that may make the difference in the game (Aether is really good against Oath, Colossus, Dragon, radon aggro, protect your own creatures...) instead that an artifact that may help you going faster...

Anyway, how many time you will save if you play with the Pyrit?? Most of the time, not that much... If you didn't play the walk, you willw play it, cast Colossus and your other creature and that's it... You will win maybe 10 seconds faster with Pyrit...
If you played walk, you will cast all your creatures, atifacts and pass the turn. Your opponent will probably scoop. If he don't, he will try to find a solution, but since you have only Mana Drain and FoW in your hand, he will not be able to do anything. You will win maybe 1 - 1 and half minute faster with Pyrit (at worst).

And how could you make a play mistake when you combo off withou thr Pyrit!? You cast all your creatures, play your moxes and keep a hand of 6-7 FoW/Mana Drain.  Even if you say things irrelevant with Meddlilng Mage, your hand full of counterspells Will probably be enough...

Artifacts
3 Aether Spellbomb
1 Black Lotus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Sol Ring

Artifact Creature
1 Darkstell Colossus

Creatures
4 Auriok Salvagers
3 Meddling Mage
4 Trinket Mage

Instants
2 Abeyance
1 Ancestral Recall 
3 Brainstorm
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Thirst For Knowledge

Sorceries
1 Time Walk

Basic Lands
4 Island
1 Plains

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
1 Library Of Alexandria
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra

Your list looks good but is abeyence really better then brainstorm? I will have to try the 4 trinket mage 3 meddling mage configuration.

Abeyance and Brainstorm are different. Abeyance is really good against a lot of combo decks, which seems to be more popular here...
Abeyance is a very good card, it may be used as a combo breaker, combo protector and like a counterspell... They are good in the deck. If someone don't want to play with these, I would recommand to play with a 4th Brainstorm and a 4th Thirst/Meddling.

I have found furnace to be to slow, isn't pithing needle or boarded crypts better?

Yes, Furnace are slow... I always have a Thormod's Crypt in my sideboard, but you need some Maindeck Graveyard removal. While Furnace is slow for you, it help you gain some time. Against a welder, for exemple, you remove his bottom every turn. If he try to weld in a releavant artifact, you may pay to remove it from the game. He will probably change his gameplan to adapt to this. It makes time for you to combo or beat... The Furnace is like a Spellbomb when you combo, that why it is use over Crypt (Which is sideboard).

Needle is good, I played it maindeck and it was ok. I cut it when I add Tinker-Colossus. The Needle is good, but not necessary I found...

Could you also explain the 3 meddling mage 4 trinket mage. Lastly I am wondering what you think of maindecked tops and needles.

It may seems wrong at first, but I found that now, Trinket > Meddling Mage.
Trinket is a really good tutor int the deck... He fetchs Lotus, Spelbomb, Furnace, Explosives or a Mox. Add the 2/2 Body to that *Which is more realeavant than people first thought*

I said that Now, Trinket is better. Why? Because Bomberman now plays all 5 moxes and play Thirst For Knowledge. Trinket is easier to cast with a (U)(U) baskup (Thanks to Off Color Moxes). Meddling, in the other hand, is weaker now, because you can't name Thirst with it most of the time (Since you play it), which was what harmed a lot of decks (Like Control Slaver). Newer combo decks have more ways to win too, so that makes Meddling even weaker...

Meddling is still a good card, but Trinket is supperior.

This really doesn't take much longer to explain, and realistically how many people don't know how the salvagers combo works ?

Well, I think that you're from Ontario... In Québec and in Ontario, Bomberman is a well known archetype. But if you go in the USA, not everybody know it. I went to the last Rochester and 1 person I played against didn't know the combo, and 1 person that Lany played too...

[Jank Golem]

The main point I was trying to make with Pyrite is not that it easier or takes less time but that if the game goes to 5 turns it takes 1 turn instead of 2 or even 3. It is possible to make a play mistake with AEther burning for infinite or accidentally decking yourself, this is no excuse to run pyrite however. Perhaps you are right though, Pyrite is strictly worse than AEther except in this one rather conditional situation.

I still like Pithing Needle and Sensei's Divining Top maindeck because they are hot with Trinket Mage. I like your explanation of why Trinket Mage is better then Meddling Mage, I may end up changing the deck however it is a little meta dependent. Would you board the 4th Meddling Mage or just cut it altogether?

Down in the U.S. it is surprising the number of people who do not know the combo, it is not too hard to explain though.

[Wagner]

Ok, I am the deck's creator and the decklist listed in the first post is mine of SCG Rochester where I finished in 9th place.

Allow me to explain some of the points no one touched yet.

I choose to not play 5 Moxen because of the deck's weakness to Null Rod and Chalice. Bomberman is already struggling for the game if one of those 2 hits the board, so you don't want to be mana short too. Yes, it allows earlier Salvagers and Trinkets, but you probably w'ont ever cast a 1st turn Salvager with 3 off-color Moxen. Yes, it does speed up the deck, especially with Thirsts, but I find it to be too risky.

I choose to not run Mana Crypt because, as it has been said, the deck wins 40% of its matchups by pure beatdown, given that you will likely burn for 6 to 9 against a Fish or Slaver deck which will go into long game, you cannot take that risk.

Trinket Mage = 2U for a 2/2 + thats gives you a card in your hand

Artificie's Intuition = 1UU for Nothing that requires a card in your hand

Intuition = 2U to put all your combo pieces where they should be EXEPT the one that is hard to cast and to find

Pyrite Spellbomb = Killmore and is therefore useless unless you are a VERY slow player (I very rarely go into 5 extra turns)


The deck has 4-6 open slots depending if you are running 5 Moen or not, if you are, I advide you to cut a seldom hard to cast Meddling Mage and to play some Thirsts.

Aether Spellbomb > Collossus, Psychatog, Dragon, Akroma

Swords to Plowshares should only be played in an aggro-heavy envirronment (disregard my previous lists running 4 maindeck)

Abeyance will help against combo and control without being as slow as Aether Vial

Disenchant will help against Stack, Oath, and Maindeck hate such as Null Rod

Engeneered Explosives is just too good to not play 1 maindeck

Sensei's Divining top is a tough one though, alothout is doesn't do anything on it's own (It won't help you combo) it will help you with the many shuffle effets of the deck.


The sideboard is very variable, the only things I wouldn't take out are:

1 Tormord's Crypt (Tutorable and ok against many matchups)
2-4 Fluxes for Stax
2 Exalted Angels and pay attention here, these should be sided in against ANY matchup that will be able to put some hate and to Counter back, so, Fish, U/G Madness, Landstill and random aggro with blue (but not Food chain).

If you have any questions, I will be happy to help out, but since I rarely come to Themanadrain, you might want to private message me.