Old fashioned R/G Zoo

[Duffy]

Hey people, how are you?

First of all, I went through 5 pages of decklists in this section and found 3 (kinda) Zoo decks but none of them actually looked like the 'Old Zoo' build with River Boa's and the works. My build doesn't have the watery snake either, but that's one of the reasons I'm here, I hope you can help me out.

I love T1, as we all do. Unfortunately, I live in The Netherlands. There aren't many T1 tourneys around here. When there are any, I usually play my good ol' monoblue with Superman and the works which gets me pretty far mostly (alas, I went 3-3-2 at the T1 Dutch Nationals last October).
Anyway, I feel the key to T1 is speed. You need to outrun your opponent before he gets you. I've noticed this with decks like Tendrils, Stax etc which all have insane amounts of mana in their opening turns before they drop their bombs and it's usually tough to punch through that. (not that I haven't been successful, but nevermind that).
So I wanted to try something else and I came up with another favorite of mine, R/G Zoo. I stripped it down and build it up again in such a way that I never need more than a little time to get him worried.

The thing is, everything in the below deck list costs 1 mana. (yes I know, Chalice would kill me but work with me) With a little acceleration I would be able to put 3 threats on the board in turn 2. For the record, I posses full Power but I aim to create a non-powered deck for a change.
Let me hand the decklist first:

Beats: 18
4 Kird Ape
4 Jackal Pup
4 Jungle Lion
4 Wild Dogs
2 Ghazban Ogre / Skyshroud Ridgeback

Burn/Pump: 8
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Giant Growth

Utility: 6
1 Crop Rotation
1 Berserk (have only 1, would like to add another)
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Manabase: 18
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Forest
4 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Heart of Yavimaya

54 cards total. At the moment I have a little more land in there (+1 Barbarian Ring, Gaea's Cradle, 2 Forests and 2 Mountains) but in the short playtesting I've done it seems I have enough land, so I am thinking of cutting down to 18 land and 4 ESG.

The Sideboard contains cards with different CC's due to the threat of Chalice.
4 Chalice
3 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
3 Naturalize
3 Tormod's Crypt
1?

Anyway, back to the deck. Not using Berserk, it can goldfish on turn 3 which is not an unlikely situation:
turn 1: Mountain, Ape or Pup, use ESG for Jungle Lion or Wild Dogs
turn 2, Forest, attack, Giant Growth, Bolt or Chain, = 10 damage
turn 3, same.

My first problem is the number of creatures. 18 seems enough (not counting ESG), but with playtesting it appeared that I sometimes do not have enough punch. Still though, I need to do more testing.

Secondly, I am not sure about Ghazban Ogre. The Ridgeback has +1 toughness, but still dies to a Bolt or Chain plus it dies after 2 turns anyway. I realize that the game should almost be over by then, give or take a Bolt and that his death fills up my graveyard for the Barbarian Ring.

Thirdly, the Utility spot. Although I said I aimed this to be a 1cc deck, my hands keep itching about adding cards like Regrowth, Wheel of Fortune and Burning/Living Wish. IMO, most cards don't really fit the profile for being in an aggressive deck, but still. Regrowth could bring back that final bolt, Wheel replenishes my hand with a load of threats and a Burning Wish could get me a Final Fortune or something that wins it for me.
What I am trying to say is that when a game goes into extra innings for me (meaning, past turn 6 or so) I run out of gas, and usually my opponents start kicking up. At that point I need to trust my choice of playing only 18 land and that the top card of my deck is something I can use to punch those last few points away. Burning Wish, Regrowth and Wheel of Fortune all have that ability. As said, I don't know if those cards would work well in an aggressive deck like this.

Then, Barbarian Ring. I'm pretty content on the number of basics and of course duals and fetches can't be forgotten here, but I keep thinking about the Ring. It's a great card and with Bolts, Chains, Giant Growths it should not be difficult obtaining a Shock out of it. I am just wondering whether or not I should play 2.
I am dropping Cradle as it does not work for me. I have no X spell anywhere that would be useful or competitive (at least, not that I can think of).
I also do not play Wastelands/Strip Mine as they hurt the tempo of my deck. This deck is build to be a pro-active deck instead of a reactive deck, as I believe Stephen Menendian once wrote in one of his articles.

The forgotten ones:
Rancor
Fireblast

Both cards are, needless to be said, great of course. I just don't know if I'd rather play a 3rd creature on turn 2 or drop a Rancor on a little guy's head and swing.
Fireblast is an excellent finisher as it takes most people by surprise. I am not sure of including them though, as I would like to await your comments first. I was thinking of adding 2 at least.


Sideboard help
As already said, an well-sideboarded Chalice could ruïn a lot. Therefore I need my own disruption. Naturalize is an easy choice, as are Artifact Mutation and Chalices of my own to stop powered decks from laying down their jewels.
Then there's Pithing Needle, Null Rod and even Seedtimes for instance.

For the sake of trying:
3 Naturalize
4 Chalice
1 Pithing Needle
2 Null Rod
2 Seedtime
3 Tormod's Crypt ( I never leave home without this )


Well, that's all I have for you guys. I hope you can help me with this, any and all is appreciated. I aim to play this at a tourney within 2 weeks, so I hope to give you guys credit after that 

Thanks!

[[supa_t(im)]]

And so, R/G returns.

There was a lot of discussion on R/G about a year ago, but it seems to have petered out.  I'll give you a rundown on what needs to happen if R/G is going to live.  2 main points.

1) It needs to stop being Beatz.  Beatz was good back in the days of Keeper, and Sligh, but those days are over.  Cards like jackal pup and jungle lion aren't going to cut it.  Almost every creature needs to do something in the deck, besides beat for 2.  The cards need to have more synergy.  Grim lavamancer is good, as it provides continuous direct damage.  Gorilla shaman is incredibly helpful utility against almost every deck in the format.  Wild mongrel + basking rootwalla (and of course kird ape) will be all the beatdown you need.  Mongrel also helps to make dead cards in hand useful.  Rancor is needed, but should be the only pump spell used, it increases the clock, and doesn't cost card advantage if it dies.

2) The decks need a way to disrupt the opponents tempo.  Decks win fast nowadays, and going straight aggro is asking to get beaten.  Fight your opponents tempo while still being able to beatdown fast makes R/G viable.  Gorilla shaman is needed, as is root maze, null rod, and strip effects (wastelands, strip mine).  Hate their manabase, and quickly beatdown.

The deck gives up some burn for better utility and disruption.  Here is the list I use:

Mana 24
Land 12
2 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
3 Mountain
Disruption 5
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
Acceleration 7
1 Mox Emerald (PR)
1 Mox Ruby (PR)
1 Black Lotus (PR)
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Creatures 18
3 Kird Ape
3 Basking Rootwalla
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Gorilla Shaman

Spells/Utility 19
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Null Rod
4 Root Maze
4 Rancor
4 Naturalize

Sideboard 15
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Emerald Charm
4 Artifact Mutation
4 Pyrostatic Pillar

With no proxies go 2 more basic lands and a lotus petal.  My list is 61 cards because the threats are so redundant having that extra rancor is actually helpful.  2 taiga because I don't like other wastelands.  Naturalize MD because Oath is a sucky matchup.  Many people would disagree with me, and since this is a largely metagame deck by nature, I have no problem with that.

The goal is to drop disruption early (root maze, null rod, gorilla shaman, wastelands) while using moxen and ESG to lay threats quickly.  Get as much tempo as you can, while slowing theirs down.

The deck's curve is varied, but a chalice will still hurt.  An early gorilla shaman (before chalice hits obv) will sufice, and naturalize gets by it as well.

This deck isn't good against everything, but nothing is a complete autoloss.  R/G is good against Stax, Control Slaver, Fish, and Workshop Aggro.  It can beat Gifts variants because of the hate it packs for the manabase, SBed pillar and REBs help the matchup as well.  Against Combo and Oath the deck isn't great against (but remember, not unwinable).  Root maze, null rod, and SB pillar all help combo (even against dragon the deck has root maze, naturalize, and emerald charm).  Against Oath only naturalize and emerald charm really help, but REBs can force through some hate (I have a winning record against Oath, but it is no where near easy).

The deck loses to turn 1 combos, early tinkers, and protected oaths.  Not exactly the deck you want to take to a field of Oath and Combo.  IMO not a bad deck in a more balanced metagame, or in a metagame with lots of workshops, welders, and fish.

[warble]

Hmm, I prefer more costly utilities, and do stick to the beats rather well.  To give you a feel of what my deck does without divulging the entire decklist, here is my utility:

2 Null Rod
1 Damping Matrix
3 Naturalize
2 Rack and Ruin
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Red Elemental Blast

Quite clearly this is metagamed against stax/CS, but I live in New England so sue me.  My beats are mixed with burn as best I can manage, and anyone who says jackal pup and kird ape can't make it are just not utilizing their other slots effectively.  Sure, beating for 2 is suck, but combine that with effective control and you really get the core of r/g beats.  One thing I'd like to note about the slew of utility is that there is a mix of both casting cost, target, and artifact/instant.  In fact, each of the above utility cards serves a different and necessary purpose in the deck.

I would recommend starting with the above list of utility and building the deck around that as opposed to starting with a bunch of one-drops and trying to figure out how to squeeze in some utility.  It's the utility that will win the match, NOT THE CREATURES.  The creatures alone are basically going to suck, because you don't have white, you don't have blue, you don't have black...and you aren't running bird $hit.  However, r/g has amazing utility, and you need to use that more in the deck.

I'll also address wasteland+strip.  It's a good engine, just make sure you have room for that in the deck if you choose to include it.  Often times r/g beats loses because the engine is in place in the deck, and although the engine runs smoothly, too many land drops and too much mana gets dedicated to running that engine.  If you have sufficient metagame hate you may find the engine gets set aside or reduced in measure.  That's fine, even one strip and 2 wastelands with 2 in the board is effective hate.  Don't get caught up in waste+strip just because workshop can support the full set, r/g beats needs colored mana and has no draw power.  Personally, I run 1 strip and 3 waste, but no recursion because I can't afford to dedicate any more of the deck to that plan.

Edit:  Just one other note, my deck undisrupted will deal 20 damage by turn 4 usually and 5 guaranteed.  Somehow I managed to fit that in too.     Good Luck.

[Duffy]

Thank you supa and warble.

To start with warble, I see your point of Utility. I myself love running Tormod's Crypt main as it is effective against most decks played around here. Rack and Ruin is a great card too, although I fear Mana Drains will be looking for that. I'd play it SB at least.
My metagame is not as Stax-infested as it probably is in the US. There are enough Stax-decks running around, I've just been fortunate enough not to run into one so far.
I will browse around for Utility options as I will need a number of them. I had not given that much thought to it yet.

Therefore, I neigh a little more to supa's suggestions. I haven't even given thought about Root Maze which should make an excellent maindeck option. Personally I'd cut 1 Naturalize as you already have 4 Shaman's, Mazes.
Coincidentally, I talked about this deck with a friend of mine and we were discussing the inclusion of Lavamancer. How does it work for you in your list?
I mean, you do not have many cards that get into your graveyard quickly, besides ESG, Strip-effects and Bolts/Naturalize. Mazes stay in the game, Rancor's usually don't end up in the graveyard.
I understand the use/need for Strip effects. There are hardly decks out there that don't run 5 Waste/Strip. As I thought up this deck I aimed to have as much speed as possible without having to react to an opponent's deck. Wastes and Strip Mine would slow my deck's stampede and therefore diminish the chance of (coming close to) winning. Warble also mentiones this so I guess I wasn't too far off here. Nevertheless, Wasting his Bazaar/Workshop is always a good thing 

We also discussed the match-up against Oath which should be one of the hardest ones. So we concluded that Naturalize should at least be Main 3x.

I know I went a little idealic with my first decklist, realizing it is not do-able. I will look into supa's list, add a little tweaks (as I have no Lavamancers at the moment, I need to edit a little) and try it out versus a number of decks. I will need to test a little with the Root Mazes and Lavamancers as I have not played with either so far.
Thanks for both your suggestions.

[Law]

I have played supa_Tim's build of the deck for a little while (almost done building it too) and given that all the cards can do something to help win. The deck plays fast and has a slight learning curve since the deck can do so much. But just play the deck and learn what it can do. Since it does have alot more tricks it can pull off then the build you posted. Also when you build the deck make serton any adjustments you make, make serton that they work well.

Only real change I have made myself was instead of the extra lands I added to the deck two Magma Jet to the deck instead.

[[supa_t(im)]]

Naturalize can certainly go to make it 60 cards.  I usually drop rancor for 60 because rancor is dependent on having a creature out.  I also have a bit of Oath in my meta, so having the 4 naturalize helps a bit.

Grim lavamancer is usually fed well.  Wastelands often find targets.  Fetchlands wind up in the graveyard.  More than 1 spell is often countered.  Lotus can go to the graveyard.  Naturalize and lightning bolts usually find targets.  Dead cards get thrown out to mongrel.  I have no trouble feeding lavamancer.

Strip effects are a must.  Mana denial is the only way that this deck can disrupt the opponent.  You can't counter stuff, you can't bounce stuff, you have limited removal.  Stalling their mana is the best way to push your beats in faster.  Just trying to lay as many beats down as fast as you can means that they will be free to play spells on their terms, and therefore win more easily.  Since your curve is so low, wasting a land will grant you more tempo than just playing a creature.  You should be able to do both in one turn.

Without lavamancers...mogg fanatic may work in that spot for a little bit.  It does almost the same job as lavamancer.

Oath is probably the hardest matchup.  Not unwinable, but close.  Naturalizes and mana denial can go a long way.  Emerald charm SBed is an interesting card because no one really expects it.

[Duffy]

I see your point. I will go and do some testing with and without Rancors, Root Maze and the likes.
Thanks 4 your help here, I appreciate it!