Replicate and COTV

[Polynomial P]

There seems to be some confusion about the new mechanic Replicate in a few of the threads. I would like to get some judges to address the interaction of spells with Replicate and Chalice of the Void.

Chalice for 1 is in play and someone plays Shattering Spree (R, destroy target artifact. Replicate R) paying the Replicate cost 1 time.

I believe the original spell will be countered by COTV, but the replicate spells should be able to resolve through the chalice. Is this correct? Thanks in advance.

[Matt]

"(When you play this spell, copy it for each time you paid its replicate cost. You may choose new targets for the copies.)"

^wording from reminder text of Replicate, taken from English version of Mimeofacture.

"Whenever a player plays a spell with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on Chalice of the Void, counter that spell."

^wording of Chalice from Oracle.

Since it appears that the copies are placed directly on the stack, they aren't "played" so Chalice never sees them. If instead the copies work like Isochron Scepter (You may copy the imprinted instant card. If you do, you may play the copy without paying its mana cost.), then Chalice will affect them.

[Kasuras]

"(When you play this spell, copy it for each time you paid its replicate cost. You may choose new targets for the copies.)"

^wording from reminder text of Replicate, taken from English version of Mimeofacture.

"Whenever a player plays a spell with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on Chalice of the Void, counter that spell."

^wording of Chalice from Oracle.

Since it appears that the copies are placed directly on the stack, they aren't "played" so Chalice never sees them. If instead the copies work like Isochron Scepter (You may copy the imprinted instant card. If you do, you may play the copy without paying its mana cost.), then Chalice will affect them.

They work just like storm copies, and are placed directly on the stack.

Sources:

-The reminder on replicate is the same as the reminder on storm regarding copies.
-The article on that card specifically mentions that the copies are placed on the stack.

[Limbo]

This wording also implies that one Stifle can counter all activations of replicate at once (like with storm). Is this assumption correct?

[Matt]

No, Storm is a triggered ability that has to go on the stack and resolve (and can be countered by Stifle while on the stack). This is more like buyback.

[Nibble]

No, Storm is a triggered ability that has to go on the stack and resolve (and can be countered by Stifle while on the stack). This is more like buyback.

Storm (When you play this spell, copy it for each spell played before it this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.)

Replicate (When you play this spell, copy it for each time you paid its replicate cost. You may choose new targets for the copies.)

They're worded exactly the same, save for the condition that generates the copies. Why should they act differently?

[vartemis]

No, Storm is a triggered ability that has to go on the stack and resolve (and can be countered by Stifle while on the stack). This is more like buyback.

Storm (When you play this spell, copy it for each spell played before it this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.)

Replicate (When you play this spell, copy it for each time you paid its replicate cost. You may choose new targets for the copies.)

They're worded exactly the same, save for the condition that generates the copies. Why should they act differently?

Although they are worded almost identically, I believe they do function differently.  The difference is the "you paid" in replicate.  Storm counts the previous number of spells played at the time the spell resolves and automatically places the copies on the stack.  This is a triggered ability.  The way replicate is worded, a copy is created each time you pay the replicate cost.  Replicate to me is considered a sort of "activated ablility" for a spell, like buyback; therefore you would need a stifle for EACH replicate paid for by the caster.  Replicate is basically a built in fork (or twincast for the neophytes).  I think this is how wizards wishes storm was in the first place.

Is this what you were thinking Matt?

j

[lordmayhem]

Replicate (When you play this spell, copy it for each time you paid its replicate cost. You may choose new targets for the copies.)

When you play this spell <trigger>
Copy it for each time <copies>
you PAID (not pay) its replicate cost <PAID being the keyword>

This doesn't look like it works like an activated ability at all. When the trigger condition is met, it copies according to how many times you paid the cost. So this leads me to think that you have to pay the replicate costs as part of the announcement of the spell. This looks like a hybrid between kicker and storm.

[Matt]

It's definitely not an activated ability (which uses a colon, always). Upon further review of Storm's actual wording, I was wrong and this does function like Storm. So if they Stifle your Mimeofacture, you just wasted a heapin' helpin' of mana.

Anyway, the rule is: Stifle yes, because it's a triggered ability; Chalice no, because they're put directly on the stack by the tirggered ability.