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Author Topic: V-Shackles and Oath of druids.  (Read 1776 times)
Harlequin
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« on: January 30, 2006, 05:10:32 pm »

curtiousy of gather.wizards.com -

  Card Name: Vedalken Shackles
       Cost: 3
       Type: Artifact
    Pow/Tgh:
 Rules Text: You may choose not to untap Vedalken Shackles during
             your untap step.
             2, T: Gain control of target creature with power less
             than or equal to the number of Islands you control
             as long as Vedalken Shackles remains tapped.
 Set/Rarity: Fifth Dawn rare
--------
Suppose I have Oath of Druids and V-Shackles in play.  Durring my opponents turn I activate shackles and steal the only creature in play (no orchards in play).
The turn passes to my turn... Can I choose to untap the shackles durring my untap step (thus returning control of the creaute) and then oath durring this upkeep?

I asked Jacob O.  And he said he was 90% sure that was a legal play.  The only thing that would make it not legal, is if game state was not checked before the begining of the untap step.  thus oath would check at the same time as the creature was being returned.  Can anyone out there give me a 100% on this one?


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Jebus
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« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2006, 05:52:37 pm »

The creature is returned in the Untap step, before the beginning of the Upkeep.

Oath will trigger.
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Komatteru
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« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2006, 05:57:02 pm »

However, the Oath trigger will only do anything if you still have more creatures than your opponent when the trigger resolves, so in this case, it won't actually do anything.  Oath trigger checks to make sure the condition "you have less creatures" is true twice.  Yes, Oath triggers, but you won't be able to search out a creature.
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Harlequin
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« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2006, 06:05:30 pm »

So in the example above.  Holding everything else equal (ie no instant speed creatures from orchards or any other sorce).  Just One creature in play owned by my oppoent, under my control at the end of my opp's turn with V-Shacks, I have oath of druids, and a creature in my library.  I untap my shackles durring the untap step ... will I be able to resolve the oath effect (ie oath a creature into play)?
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JDawg13
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« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2006, 06:24:54 pm »

However, the Oath trigger will only do anything if you still have more creatures than your opponent when the trigger resolves, so in this case, it won't actually do anything.  Oath trigger checks to make sure the condition "you have less creatures" is true twice.  Yes, Oath triggers, but you won't be able to search out a creature.

I think you've got that a bit backwards.  I know you know how Oath works, but here we're concerned with having fewer creatures than your opponent, not more.  As Jebus said, the creature will return to your opponent, so all else being equal, the Oath will trigger and you'll be able to dig up a dude to put into play.
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Jebus
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« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2006, 06:50:12 pm »

I think JDizzle found some old copies of Bizzaro Oath of Druids. Razz
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Godder
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« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2006, 06:51:47 pm »

Shackles is a continuous effect, so as soon as it becomes untapped, control returns to the opponent, even during the Untap Step. This isn't a triggered effect, or even a State-Based effect, so you don't wait for priority before it happens.

Summary: The creature returns to its owner's control during Untap, and then Oath triggers in Upkeep.

JDizzle is apparently getting confused Very Happy.
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Komatteru
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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2006, 07:35:49 pm »

Oops.  Yeah.  This whole creatures moving around thing is too confusing for me.  However, I didn't miss any questions related to creatures when I took my judge test.  Razz

Moral of the story: Creatures are bad. Play Dark Rituals instead.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2006, 07:39:02 pm by JDizzle » Logged
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