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Author Topic: [Report] Myriad Games Vintage January 14th, 2006 w/T8 Decks  (Read 4311 times)
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« on: January 17, 2006, 07:49:25 pm »

The Myriad Games Vintage Tournament announcement for January 14th, 2006 can be found here.

Thank you to everyone who attended our latest Vintage tournament here at Myriad Games.

Aaron Conole won the Preregistration Bonus Dual Land: [card]Taiga[/card].

The T-Shirt Challenge continued to be popular (who doesn't love a chance at a Free T-Shirt?) We were rather busy throughout the day so I only had time to play 7 games. We gave away 3 Myriad Games T-Shirts. Thanks to everyone who participated. For those of you who did not win this time, thank you for playing. Those of you who haven't won a T-shirt can try again next time.

There were door prizes all around including Sara's famous Myriad Games Magical Mana Cookies!

We'll be bringing these to Waterbury VIII on the 28th, so be sure to be there for your chance at a tasty door prize!

You can check out some classy black and white photographs from the event right here.

Myriad Games will be hosting our next Vintage Tournament on February 11th.

As always, if you have any comments or suggestions about our events, please email us at vintage@myriadgames.com

Tournament Results

1st Place: Domenic Minicucci with Flores Dredgeatog
2nd Place: Chad Behre with The Mountains Win Again
3rd Place: Dana Renfrew with Free Your Mind
4th Place: Geoff Healy with Suicide Black
5th Place: Andy Probasco with Flame Vault Gifts
6th Place: Ryan Durney with The Mountains Win Again
7th Place: Crossman Wilkins with Dark Confidant Combo
8th Place: Mike Spencer with Salvagers

Top 2
Domenic Minicucci vs Chad Behre

Top 4
  • Domenic Minicucci vs Dana Renfrew
  • Chad Behre vs Geoff Healy
Top 8
  • Domenic Minicucci vs Andy Probasco
  • Chad Behre vs Ryan Durney
  • Dana Renfrew vs Crossman Wilkins
  • Geoff Healy vs Mike Spencer

Field Overview
4x Oath
3x Control Slaver
3x The Mountains Win Again
2x Gifts
2x Suicide Black
2x 3CC
2x Stax
2x U/R Fish
1x U/W Rebels Fish
1x Free Your Mind
1x Dredgeatog
1x Salvagers
1x Flame Vault
1x Workshop Aggro
1x Doomsday
1x Combo
1x Casual MonoRed
1x U/W Casual Control

Decklists

Domenic Minicucci (Flores' Dredgeatog)

1x [card]Life from the Loam[/card]
4x [card]Psychatog[/card]
4x [card]Brainstorm[/card]
4x [card]Mana Drain[/card]
4x [card]Force of Will[/card]
4x [card]Circular Logic[/card]
2x [card]Intuition[/card]
1x [card]Ancestral Recall[/card]
1x [card]Time Walk[/card]
1x [card]Living Wish[/card]
1x [card]Regrowth[/card]
1x [card]Echoing Truth[/card]
1x [card]Demonic Tutor[/card]
1x [card]Mystical Tutor[/card]
1x [card]Forbid[/card]
1x [card]Pernicious Deed[/card]
1x [card]Yawgmoth's Will[/card]
1x [card]Fact or Fiction[/card]
1x [card]Corpse Dance[/card]
1x [card]Stinkweed Imp[/card]
1x [card]Black Lotus[/card]
1x [card]Mox Jet[/card]
1x [card]Mox Emerald[/card]
1x [card]Mox Sapphire[/card]
3x [card]Island[/card]
1x [card]Polluted Delta[/card]
3x [card]Flooded Strand[/card]
4x [card]Underground Sea[/card]
4x [card]Tropical Island[/card]
1x [card]Sol Ring[/card]
1x [card]Strip Mine[/card]
2x [card]Lonely Sandbar[/card]
1x [card]Cephalid Coliseum[/card]

Sideboard
1x [card]City of Brass[/card]
1x [card]Boseiju Who Shelters All[/card]
1x [card]Withered Wretch[/card]
1x [card]Viridian Shaman[/card]
1x [card]Meloku the Clouded Mirror[/card]
1x [card]Razormane Masticore[/card]
2x [card]Tormod's Crypt[/card]
2x [card]Darkblast[/card]
2x [card]Duress[/card]
3x [card]Annul[/card]

Chad Behre (The Mountains Win Again)

3x [card]Mountain[/card]
4x [card]Mishra's Factory[/card]
4x [card]Plateau[/card]
3x [card]Wooded Foothills[/card]
4x [card]Bloodstained Mire[/card]
1x [card]Strip Mine[/card]
4x [card]Wasteland[/card]
1x [card]Mox Ruby[/card]
3x [card]Tormod's Crypt[/card]
3x [card]Disenchant[/card]
1x [card]Seal of Cleansing[/card]
1x [card]Enlightened Tutor[/card]
4x [card]Swords to Plowshares[/card]
2x [card]Viashino Heretic[/card]
2x [card]Lava Dart[/card]
4x [card]Magma Jet[/card]
4x [card]Pyroblast[/card]
4x [card]Grim Lavamancer[/card]
2x [card]Genju of the Spires[/card]
4x [card]Goblin Vandal[/card]
2x [card]Hearth Kami[/card]

Sideboard
4x [card]Red Elemental Blast[/card]
4x [card]Orim's Chant[/card]
1x [card]Sacred Ground[/card]
1x [card]Disenchant[/card]
1x [card]Tormod's Crypt[/card]
4x [card]Pyroclasm[/card]

Dana Renfrew (Free Your Mind)

2x [card]Waterfront Bouncer[/card]
3x [card]Aquamoeba[/card]
3x [card]Quirion Dryad[/card]
3x [card]Goblin Vandal[/card]
4x [card]Spiketail Hatchling[/card]
1x [card]Ancestral Recall[/card]
1x [card]Gush[/card]
3x [card]Brainstorm[/card]
2x [card]Misdirection[/card]
3x [card]Daze[/card]
4x [card]Force of Will[/card]
2x [card]Fire Ice[/card]
3x [card]Null Rod[/card]
2x [card]Pithing Needle[/card]
1x [card]Mox Ruby[/card]
1x [card]Mox Emerald[/card]
1x [card]Mox Sapphire[/card]
1x [card]Strip Mine[/card]
3x [card]Wasteland[/card]
3x [card]Island[/card]
3x [card]Tropical Island[/card]
4x [card]Volcanic Island[/card]
2x [card]Flooded Strand[/card]
2x [card]Polluted Delta[/card]
3x [card]Mishra's Factory[/card]

Sideboard
2x [card]Quiet Speculation[/card]
1x [card]Lava Dart[/card]
2x [card]Krosan Reclamation[/card]
2x [card]Moments Peace[/card]
3x [card]Ray of Revelation[/card]
2x [card]Echoing Truth[/card]
3x [card]Pyroblast[/card]

Geoff Healy (The Return of Blood Feast Island Man)

4x [card]Carnophage[/card]
4x [card]Sarcomancy[/card]
4x [card]Dark Ritual[/card]
4x [card]Cabal Therapy[/card]
4x [card]Duress[/card]
4x [card]Phyrexian Negator[/card]
3x [card]Diabolic Edict[/card]
1x [card]Demonic Tutor[/card]
3x [card]Nantuko Shade[/card]
3x [card]Dauthi Slayer[/card]
1x [card]Demonic Consultation[/card]
1x [card]Black Lotus[/card]
1x [card]Mox Jet[/card]
4x [card]Unmask[/card]
9x [card]Swamp[/card]
2x [card]Wasteland[/card]
1x [card]Strip Mine[/card]
3x [card]Bloodstained Mire[/card]
3x [card]Polluted Delta[/card]
2x [card]Last Gasp[/card]

Sideboard
1x [card]Diabolic Edict[/card]
1x [card]Last Gasp[/card]
3x [card]Flesh Reaver[/card]
3x [card]Tormod's Crypt[/card]
1x [card]Wasteland[/card]
3x [card]Shadow of Doubt[/card]
3x [card]Engineered Plague[/card]


Andy Probasco (Flaming Gifts)

4x [card]Force of Will[/card]
4x [card]Mana Drain[/card]
4x [card]Thirst for Knowledge[/card]
4x [card]Brainstorm[/card]
3x [card]Gifts Ungiven[/card]
2x [card]Pithing Needle[/card]
1x [card]Darkblast[/card]
1x [card]Ancestral Recall[/card]
1x [card]Mystical Tutor[/card]
1x [card]Vampiric Tutor[/card]
1x [card]Imperial Seal[/card]
1x [card]Time Walk[/card]
1x [card]Yawgmoth's Will[/card]
1x [card]Tinker[/card]
1x [card]Darksteel Colossus[/card]
1x [card]Flame Fusillade[/card]
1x [card]Time Vault[/card]
1x [card]Burning Wish[/card]
1x [card]Recoup[/card]
1x [card]Demonic Tutor[/card]
4x [card]Flooded Strand[/card]
1x [card]Polluted Delta[/card]
2x [card]Underground Sea[/card]
2x [card]Volcanic Island[/card]
1x [card]Black Lotus[/card]
1x [card]Mox Sapphire[/card]
1x [card]Mox Jet[/card]
1x [card]Mox Ruby[/card]
1x [card]Mox Pearl[/card]
1x [card]Mox Emerald[/card]
1x [card]Mana Crypt[/card]
1x [card]Sol Ring[/card]
1x [card]Lotus Petal[/card]
5x [card]Island[/card]
1x [card]Tolarian Academy[/card]
1x [card]Library of Alexandria[/card]

Sideboard
2x [card]Pyroblast[/card]
2x [card]Red Elemental Blast[/card]
2x [card]Ensnaring Bridge[/card]
1x [card]Pyroclasm[/card]
1x [card]The Abyss[/card]
2x [card]Annul[/card]
1x [card]Pentavus[/card]
1x [card]Deep Analysis[/card]
1x [card]Echoing Ruin[/card]
1x [card]Hurkyls Recall[/card]
1x [card]Rack and Ruin[/card]

Ryan Durney (The Mountains Win Again)

3x [card]Tormod's Crypt[/card]
4x [card]Goblin Vandal[/card]
4x [card]Magma Jet[/card]
2x [card]Viashino Heretic[/card]
4x [card]Pyroblast[/card]
4x [card]Swords to Plowshares[/card]
3x [card]Disenchant[/card]
3x [card]Genju of the Spires[/card]
2x [card]Lava Dart[/card]
2x [card]Hearth Kami[/card]
1x [card]Seal of Cleansing[/card]
1x [card]Mox Ruby[/card]
4x [card]Grim Lavamancer[/card]
4x [card]Mishra's Factory[/card]
4x [card]Bloodstained Mire[/card]
2x [card]Wooded Foothills[/card]
1x [card]Windswept Heath[/card]
4x [card]Wasteland[/card]
1x [card]Strip Mine[/card]
3x [card]Mountain[/card]
4x [card]Plateau[/card]

Sideboard
3x [card]Orim's Chant[/card]
1x [card]Sacred Ground[/card]
4x [card]Pyroclasm[/card]
1x [card]Tormod's Crypt[/card]
2x [card]Goblin Bombardment[/card]
4x [card]Red Elemental Blast[/card]

Crossman Wilkins (Dark Confidant Combo)

1x [card]Black Lotus[/card]
1x [card]Mox Pearl[/card]
1x [card]Mox Sapphire[/card]
1x [card]Mox Jet[/card]
1x [card]Mox Emerald[/card]
1x [card]Mox Ruby[/card]
1x [card]Sol Ring[/card]
1x [card]Lotus Petal[/card]
1x [card]Mana Vault[/card]
1x [card]Dark Ritual[/card]
1x [card]Swamp[/card]
4x [card]Island[/card]
3x [card]Underground Sea[/card]
4x [card]Polluted Delta[/card]
2x [card]Flooded Strand[/card]
4x [card]Dark Confidant[/card]
1x [card]Vampiric Tutor[/card]
1x [card]Demonic Tutor[/card]
1x [card]Mystical Tutor[/card]
1x [card]Yawgmoth's Will[/card]
1x [card]Time Walk[/card]
1x [card]Ancestral Recall[/card]
1x [card]Hurkyls Recall[/card]
2x [card]Rebuild[/card]
1x [card]Chain of Vapor[/card]
3x [card]Brainstorm[/card]
2x [card]Sensei's Divining Top[/card]
1x [card]Minds Desire[/card]
2x [card]Tendrils of Agony[/card]
2x [card]Thirst for Knowledge[/card]
4x [card]Mana Drain[/card]
4x [card]Force of Will[/card]
1x [card]Mana Crypt[/card]
1x [card]Gush[/card]
1x [card]Tolarian Academy[/card]
1x [card]Library of Alexandria[/card]

Sideboard
2x [card]Psychatog[/card]
3x [card]Duress[/card]
3x [card]Tormod's Crypt[/card]
2x [card]Blue Elemental Blast[/card]
2x [card]Smother[/card]
1x [card]Darkblast[/card]
1x [card]Engineered Plague[/card]
1x [card]Echoing Truth[/card]

Mike Spencer (A Gallon of Milk, A Bag of Fritos, and a Fistful of Orange Crayons)

1x [card]Engineered Explosives[/card]
1x [card]Sensei's Divining Top[/card]
1x [card]Pithing Needle[/card]
1x [card]Sol Ring[/card]
1x [card]Pyrite Spellbomb[/card]
2x [card]Aether Spellbomb[/card]
1x [card]Mana Crypt[/card]
1x [card]Mox Emerald[/card]
1x [card]Mox Sapphire[/card]
1x [card]Mox Jet[/card]
1x [card]Mox Ruby[/card]
1x [card]Mox Pearl[/card]
1x [card]Black Lotus[/card]
1x [card]Library of Alexandria[/card]
1x [card]Tolarian Academy[/card]
1x [card]Plains[/card]
2x [card]Island[/card]
1x [card]Snow-Covered Island[/card]
1x [card]Underground Sea[/card]
4x [card]Tundra[/card]
2x [card]Flooded Strand[/card]
2x [card]Polluted Delta[/card]
1x [card]Tinker[/card]
1x [card]Yawgmoth's Will[/card]
1x [card]Gifts Ungiven[/card]
1x [card]Mystical Tutor[/card]
1x [card]Time Walk[/card]
1x [card]Ancestral Recall[/card]
1x [card]Echoing Truth[/card]
2x [card]Cunning Wish[/card]
4x [card]Brainstorm[/card]
3x [card]Thirst for Knowledge[/card]
4x [card]Mana Drain[/card]
4x [card]Force of Will[/card]
3x [card]Trinket Mage[/card]
3x [card]Auriok Salvagers[/card]
1x [card]Darksteel Colossus[/card]

Sideboard
1x [card]Abeyance[/card]
2x [card]Disenchant[/card]
3x [card]Swords to Plowshares[/card]
1x [card]Rebuild[/card]
1x [card]Echoing Truth[/card]
1x [card]Brain Freeze[/card]
1x [card]Decree of Justice[/card]
3x [card]Energy Flux[/card]
1x [card]Pithing Needle[/card]
1x [card]Phyrexian Furnace[/card]

Thanks again to everyone for coming. We'll look forward to seeing everyone at the next Myriad Games Vintage Tournament on February 11th.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2006, 07:53:00 pm by myriadgames » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2006, 08:18:27 pm »

i saw the drege-a-tog deck get owned by a mycosynth lattice/null rod....
What the hell is wrong with type 1?
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new tournament prize structure....

FIRST PRIZE- A trophy proclaiming you the official undisputed Super Vintage Ultra Champion + 3 Beta Black Lotuses!!
Second Prize...NOTHING...you should have brought your A-Game you punk ass bitches.
3rd-8th Place Prizes - 100% of the second place prize

where we'll be fillin' out 2-0's......
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2006, 10:26:33 pm »

Thanks for another well run tournament, Dan.

--- Ron
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2006, 10:30:59 pm »

Good times.

Unfortunately can't make the next one, as I am back at school, but I would reccomend it to all who can.
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2006, 02:18:36 am »

Holy shit I've never seen a Tog deck like that before.

Im curious, however, what the heck he used as the engine for Circular Logic? I'm assuming he payed 2U but used it because it would be a hard counter with such a full graveyard?
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2006, 02:25:20 am »

Andy Probasco (Flaming Gifts)
...
4x [card]Flooded Strand[/card]
1x [card]Polluted Delta[/card]
2x [card]Underground Sea[/card]
2x [card]Volcanic Island[/card]
1x [card]Black Lotus[/card]
1x [card]Mox Sapphire[/card]
1x [card]Mox Jet[/card]
1x [card]Mox Ruby[/card]
1x [card]Mox Pearl[/card]
1x [card]Mox Emerald[/card]
1x [card]Mana Crypt[/card]
1x [card]Sol Ring[/card]
1x [card]Lotus Petal[/card]
5x [card]Island[/card]
1x [card]Tolarian Academy[/card]
1x [card]Library of Alexandria[/card]
...


Do you feel that no mana vault was the right decision?
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2006, 07:41:04 am »

Holy shit I've never seen a Tog deck like that before.

Im curious, however, what the heck he used as the engine for Circular Logic? I'm assuming he payed 2U but used it because it would be a hard counter with such a full graveyard?
Well, Tog and Colosseum.
EDIT: and Forbid. To really really counter a spell.

But with 5 madness outlets it is indeed a remarkable choice

Not close to the remarkeability of Suicide black in a top 8. Carnophage. Sarcomancy.  :shock: Geoff is my hero.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2006, 07:46:29 am by Gabethebabe » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2006, 10:36:52 am »

Wow. I love those results. I've been waiting to see if someone could come up with a feasible new buiold of Tog. I am intrigued by a few of his choices as well. I wonder how many times Living Wish was useful in his matches and if it provides more utility then Cunning Wish.
I also have felt for awhile that 'Mountains Win Again' is not played enough in Canada. It seems that FCG is still the popular red deck ( I'm aware that they are entirely different i n philosophy ). With the constant requests for a budget and viable vintage deck you would think that this would have been picked up - after all a simple substitution of a mox for a mountain and you have your deck. It seems a very strong meta choice and kudos to the inventors. It really does play well against both Stax and Gifts, arguably the two strongest archtypes out there, although its Oath and some combo match ups are tough.
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2006, 04:30:47 pm »

Quote
Do you feel that no mana vault was the right decision?

right now? this metagame? yeah, pretty much.  Too many times you just don't want to see it.  The less-than-stellar turn 2 gifts play, and the marginially useful, usually win-more added tinker utility aren't worth the times you're facing down Null Rod, or the hands you have to mulligan because you have Vault instead of Island
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2006, 07:28:11 pm »

Holy shit I've never seen a Tog deck like that before.

Im curious, however, what the heck he used as the engine for Circular Logic? I'm assuming he payed 2U but used it because it would be a hard counter with such a full graveyard?
Well, Tog and Colosseum.
EDIT: and Forbid. To really really counter a spell.

But with 5 madness outlets it is indeed a remarkable choice



Haha I've been so used to seeing opponents scoop when Tog comes down after a YawgWin that I completely forgot about his discard ability.

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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2006, 02:20:42 pm »

Quote
Do you feel that no mana vault was the right decision?

right now? this metagame? yeah, pretty much.  Too many times you just don't want to see it.  The less-than-stellar turn 2 gifts play, and the marginially useful, usually win-more added tinker utility aren't worth the times you're facing down Null Rod, or the hands you have to mulligan because you have Vault instead of Island

If Im reading this correctly you're saying you dont run Mana Vault because its useless under Rod, not all that hot in the early game and too often you dont want to see it in your opening hand.  So why are you running Time Vault instead of, I dont know, some actually useful card?  It has all the same liabilities you cited for Mana Vault except its hella less useful in general.
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2006, 02:31:40 pm »

Time vault is part of a 6 mana insta-win combo. The other options are Belcher, which also loses to Rod; and Donate, which costs 7 and makes you lose the game to REB.
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2006, 02:37:29 pm »

Time vault is part of a 6 mana insta-win combo. The other options are Belcher, which also loses to Rod; and Donate, which costs 7 and makes you lose the game to REB.

I believe what Jim is saying, is why run those "insta-win" combos when you can just TInker-DSC and run Burning Wish, ala MD Gifts.  The Flame/Vault, Severance/Belcher, or anything else is unnecessary.  Granted, everyone has their own playstyle, and it's not like Andy isn't winning with the deck.
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2006, 08:25:23 pm »

Time vault is part of a 6 mana insta-win combo. The other options are Belcher, which also loses to Rod; and Donate, which costs 7 and makes you lose the game to REB.

Thank you.  I have in fact been living under a rock for the past three months and was unaware of this combo.  Razz

But seriously.  Lou stated what I was getting at.  He gives reasons why Mana Vault sucks all of which apply to Time Vault as well, yet he continues to run it.  Im curious why--especially when the Vault/Fusillade combo doesnt have any distinct advantage over something like Burning Wish.
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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2006, 06:29:40 pm »

Quote
Do you feel that no mana vault was the right decision?

right now? this metagame? yeah, pretty much.  Too many times you just don't want to see it.  The less-than-stellar turn 2 gifts play, and the marginially useful, usually win-more added tinker utility aren't worth the times you're facing down Null Rod, or the hands you have to mulligan because you have Vault instead of Island

Also couldn't help but notice that you cut the Scrolls for more tutoring power in imperial seal (also theres a darkblast main). Do you feel the Scrolls just weren't good enough? I have had many matches where I wish I had more tutors to find Time vault/Fussilade instead of drawing into a scroll. Was this your reasoning behind that move?
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2006, 08:02:37 pm »

Quote
But seriously.  Lou stated what I was getting at.  He gives reasons why Mana Vault sucks all of which apply to Time Vault as well, yet he continues to run it.  Im curious why--especially when the Vault/Fusillade combo doesnt have any distinct advantage over something like Burning Wish.

I apologize for not being more punctual or forthcoming with my answer, but to be honest, the gifts debates are getting really old for me.  Not that discussing the minutia of the deck is worthless, it certainly has value, but I personally find it difficult to articulate my exact reasoning in this medium.  At this point, I'm pretty sure the people who like Tendrils are going to stick with that, and the people who like Vault or Belcher or Tog or nothing besides DSC are pretty married to their choices.  That said, I'll give at least some response:

There are two issues in contention here, concerning the kill:

Issue 1. Time Vault and Fusillade are "Dead Cards" (TM) - I could explain time vault timing tricks, or tell you how many games I've seen a vault-less fusillade win, but that would be insulting your intelligence.  Vault or Fusillade early gives you the ability to kill early.  Being pissed at having a Vault in hand with no Fusillade is like being pissed at having a Rector in your opening hand with no Therapy.  You're halfway to winning.  Sure, it doesn't actually "do anything" on its own, but now you have about 6 to 10 topdecks that win the game immediately.

Issue 2. Flame/Vault has no distinct advantage over other kills.  - I just don't agree with this, but I doubt I'm going to be changing anyone's mind right now.  Flame/Vault kills faster, more consistently than Wish->Tendrils.  Flame/Vault involves assembling two cards, which is incredibly easy for a deck with this much tutor power to do (revisiting issue 1, even easier if one of them is in your opening hand).  Wish->Tendrils requires 8 spells besides itself, usually a number of moxen, maybe a rebuild, or at a minimum, a strong Will.  If only because you need to assemble more cards to do it, Tendrils isn't going to go off as early as consistant.  Flame/Vault and Wish-Tendrils also respond differently to hate.  Tendrils requires 3 off-color mana to go off, and is much more reliant on the graveyard as a tool than Flame/Vault.  In matchups where the hate is targeted at the Vault, rather than the yard, (mainly Fish and Stax), Tinker is usually the better gameplan anyway.

Are you going to always want to see a vault in your opening hand? No, of course not.  Is speed and resiliency to grave-hate important to exclusion of all other factors when choosing a kill?  Hell no.  There are obvious problems with the Vault kill.  There are drawbacks to running any card, however narrow they may be. 
I just feel that the benefits of running the kill outweigh the drawbacks, however slight that distinction may be.  Pretty simple stuff.

I might revisit this stuff in an article if I ever get around to writing again, but for now, that's the reasoning behind the choice.

(@Disburden, you hit the nail on the head, that's the exact thought process involved, and we made that switch as soon as fusillade was legal)
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« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2006, 06:02:12 am »

I have couple of questions to the people playing TMWA.

1. Did you find that 24 mana sources are enough? I recall the original list had 26.

2. Why 2 Heretic/2 Kami? I thought Stax wasn't a problem matchup. Did you find that 3 toughness has its merit on an underpowered field, or did you find it annoying that you have to sack it to have an effect?

3. Is Lava Dart (and four Pyroclasms SB) really needed? Did you just have some extra room?

4. Is Orim's Chant your primary answer to combo? Why not Pyrostatic Pillar?

5. You have many Disenchants, to combat Oath, I think. I have solved the issue by maindecking Kami of the Ancient Laws, which beat too so that you don't go overboard with artifact destruction and have less potential dead cards.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2006, 06:05:03 am by Nastaboi » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2006, 09:45:49 am »

Answers to TMWA questions:

1) Yes, 24 of the right lands is enough
2) Heretic is the bomb and provides additional resiliency against Chalice on 1 or 2.
3) Lava Dart is still this deck's best answer to Welder, Pyroclasms are debatable
4) We've tested many options against combo including Orim's Chant, Pyrostatic Pillar, Null Rod, and even Gilded Light and Abeyance. Which options is chosen depends on the metagame.
5) The reason for these over Kami of the Ancient Laws is that they are more flexible within the metagame. There are many more artifacts than enchantments in the environment so that threat is more prevalent. Kami of the Ancient Laws doesn't replace Hearth Kami well enough in that it's a less effective card against Stax and other decks that run very few to no enchantments.

Thanks for the questions as this deck is constantly under rapid development.
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« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2006, 05:39:20 pm »

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Sideboard
2x Pyroblast
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Pyroclasm
1x The Abyss
2x Annul
1x Pentavus
1x Deep Analysis
1x Echoing Ruin
1x Hurkyls Recall
1x Rack and Ruin

Hi Andy. I tried your deck this afternoon against a couple of Tier1s and it perform really well ( even if I cut the secondary win condition, because of my own playstyle, adding FoF and E.E ). Props to you for the overall good performance of the deck. On the other hand, while toying with possible sideboarding strategies or additions to my own sideboard, all come down on chatting about the bolded choices.

How is Pentavus better than Sundering Titan or anything Tinkerable? What is the porpouse of playing with that UnMountableFat, renouncing to ArmageddonTitan?

How is TheAbyss good enough to seen it in play with a deck such as yours? You have to steal time to decks like Fish and Aggro, but with Basic Lands and Needles ( naming Wastelands), you would  always reach 3 or 4 mana soon. 4 Mana is usually game over for them all. Why losing time to play TheAbyss, this longlasting weenies' terminator?

How are Bridges good against opponents' aggro ( or aggrocontrol)  decks? A lot of cards = creatures would attack but you are going to win because of the positive good hand situation, while few cards are a signal that something would go wrong for you. Even playing with all the disadvantage tutors in your deck, you can freely play the deck drawing tons of cards and killing opponents regardless the number of the creatures in his board.

Among those cards, I felt only TheAbyss could possibly be a good choice with so many tutors and so many decks playing unprotected weenies. On the other hand, Pyroclasm#2 would have been better by far in that same spot.

--Darkblast is The Nut
--The Draw engine of the deck is The Nut
--The Needles are usually ( from my perspective, of course ) used reactively and defensively on your own duals and mana base in general, so they are a crucial addition to maindeck.
--Imperial Seal is Nice but replaceble with a lot of different things. From Shaman, to E.E. passing for Needle#3, ending with Mindtwist or FoF or anything else. I used to play it in my sideboard to enhance the Burning Wish range of targets but I would prefer it maindecked or out of the deck at all.
--Playing without a single key discard effect could be nasty if you are going to face a lot of different control decks. I would add MIndtwist in your side or a single Duress to play through Gifts.
--The 4BlastPlan sounds really strong to me. I have not tried it yet, but 5Fetchlands and 2 Volcanics ( plus 3 Red artifact mana Sources ) are enough to guarantee of being able to ReB opponent's spells really frequently. It would be really appealing against all the other control decks, such as C-Slavery and Togs and Gifts.

Props to you
Props to all Wink

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« Last Edit: January 26, 2006, 06:12:56 am by MaxxMatt » Logged

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