Fish Decklist (Hishky)

[Fred The Ev]

This my fish deck. It is nicknamed the hishky. Call me crazy. No I'm not. I have a very good reason for calling it Hishky. The deck type is fish right? OK so thats where the 'ish' comes from. the deck is U/W or UW or University of Washington, whose mascot is the husky. So 'Hishky' is 'Fish' and 'Husky' combined together.

Land(23)
4 Island
1 Plains
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory

Control/Disruption(18)
4 Force of Will
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Meddling Mage
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Umezawa's Jittle

Tempo/Draw Engine(14)
3 Curiosity
4 Flying Men
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Aether Vial

Broken(5)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl

Sideboard(15)
3 Annul
2 True Believer
2 Disenchant
3 Extract
2 Null Rod
2 Tormod's Crypt

This decklist was updated march 30th to include all of your suggestions. Especially Harlequin's

Chalice of the Void: There has been much controversy regarding this card. For me, a null rod is to centralized on one thing to be a viable maindeck option, Chalice is much more versatile. Let me say just this Aether Vial+Meddling Mage+Chalice of the Void=Game. I almost never play it for zero, as that will help you during turns 1-2 and maybe 3, where if you play it for 1 or 2 it will be disrupting the opponent all game.

Brainstorm I used to play stifle in this slot, but problems with card advantage made me shift it out for brainstorm. And i just really hate stifle. A first turn brainstrm just gives you so many options.

Ninja of the Deep Hours Another great draw machine, this card auto-replaces itslef the moment it comes int play, and with the lack of creatures in type 1, he will almost certainly be delivering you an extra card per turn. Enough to turn the tide against just about any deck.

Aether Vial This card, like chalice, has recieved much controversy over its use. I am simply amazed that people cannot see how good it is. It alows you to send in creatures and Surprise! that welder you foolishly attacked with is dead and gone! And with its ability to get your creatures around counterspells, it is game against landstill and other counter-oriented decks.

This deck is still undergoing heavy testing and all suggestions are happily received.

[Moxlotus]

Stormscape Apprentice: 1 mana, 1/1, 1 creature neutralized per turn. This card can stop Goblin Welder, control any creature win condition, or just stop an annoying piledriver in a goblin deck. AND ALL FOR 1 MANA!
 

How does this stop Welder?  How does this stop Piledriver?

[Fred The Ev]

by tapping them

[Disburden]

What Mox Lotus is saying is that Activated Abilities use the stack. Therefore you would target Welder, trying to tap them, before this ability resolves Welder can then tap and use their activated ability on the stack. Their ability resolves first and they welder in whatever they can (Slaver, etc). Then your ability resolves targeting an already tapped welder.

[Moxlotus]

Piledriver is pro-blue.  

Welder taps as an activation, so tapping it in response to its activation does nothing.  If you randomly decide to tap it, Welder can be activated in response.

You also have an illegal deck.

I would highly recommend building the deck, testing the deck and learning the rules before posting in the open forum. 

[raiL]

Also, piledriver is most certainly pro blue.

[pyr0ma5ta]

Unless you plan on playing with 8 Chalices, I suggest you find 4 more cards in the maindeck.

Also, it's been generally accepted that Null Rods are just plain better than Aether Vials.  If you're going to play with vials, consider playing with Jittes as well.

[Harlequin]

Several things:

#1 - You have to think more about your stax matchup.  No Kataki, No Energy Flux, No Sacrede Ground?  You've got a few anulls, and more tormod's crypts that you can shake a stick at.  lastly you only have 3 StPlow to actually stop welder... wich you probably want to save for RFGing large artifact creatures like karn and trike.

#2 - I really do not see aether vial on your decklist... So ... whats the deal?  I personally think its a terrible card for type 1.  Its a short term loss of tempo for a longer term gain in tempo... and its a liability.  It makes opening hands either amazing to terrible.  for example: Waste, Mishra, Aether Vial, Stormscape, Voidmage, Meddling mage, Brainstorm.  Great hand, if your opponent doesn't counter/destroy/deactivate your vial, If they do - you basically loose.

#3 - Color heavy deck with roughly a third colorless lands.  I would highly suggest 1 mishra -> 1 Basic

#4 - Brainstorm seems ill-fit in fish.  Brainstorm at times is an insane card, but alot of times it just lets you look at 3 cards that you don't need and then know you're doomed for 2 turns.  5 Shuffle effects is not enough.  Fish generally cannot abuse Brainstorm without 6 fetchs + mystical + Enlightened tutor .. wich are rather unessisary.  Curiosity is a beter fit for a one drop.

#5 - You have no evasion creatures, and no anti-aggro plan.  Ninja is only so good, when all your creatures are groundlings.  Flying men, Grayscale Gharzilla, Cloud of Faries, or even the lowly Manta Riders give you hope against other aggro decks.  Then you need to board in Jite's or Old Men of the Sea to seal the deal against aggro.   Jite in the hands of flying men - insanity - they rain down chaos like it was thier job.  Also an evasion creature wielding Curiosity is far better than a one-shot brainstorm with no shuffle effect.

#6 - Four swords to plow ... every deck with the possible acception of some combo decks run at LEAST dark steel colosus.  It one for ones welders with little consiquence, strips the only win conditions in oath, and sends DSC out to tend to the pastures.  Arguably the best card in WU fish.

#7 - Extract > Tormod's crypt.  If you work on your stax matchup then Extract starts to shine as a superior answer to almost every deck that you would want tormod's in for.  The only exception is Ichorid.  But other than that, Gifts, Storm, and Dragon ... only run 2-3 win conditons.  So with any luck the fishies will so the game long enough to Extract twice.  Null Rod is your ultimate silver bullet for Gifts and combo, and tormod's crypt + Null rod = Null Rod.  Even if you only Extract one of three winconditions, you may not have locked them out from winning, but you have bought yourself several turns.  Add in meddling mages nameing other wins, and you've got yourself plenty of time to swing for 20.  Lastly, an even BETTER use of extract is when you have mages nameing win conditions and you extract thier only bounce spell, they usually concede to that.  Another route (esp if its storm with 3-4 tendrils in deck) is to just pull broken cards like Yawgmoth's will.  In conclusion: Null Rod + Tormod's crypt = bad synergy,  Extract + Meddling mage = Good synergy.

[Fred The Ev]

#1 - You have to think more about your stax matchup.  No Kataki, No Energy Flux, No Sacrede Ground?  You've got a few anulls, and more tormod's crypts that you can shake a stick at.  lastly you only have 3 StPlow to actually stop welder... wich you probably want to save for RFGing large artifact creatures like karn and trike.


Fortunately, my metagame has merely 1 stax deck, and no other welder archetypes, so I'm not to worried about preparing for it. I may sometime enter a tournament with this deck, in which case this feedback is highly applicable and I thank you for it.

#2 - I really do not see aether vial on your decklist... So ... whats the deal?  I personally think its a terrible card for type 1.  Its a short term loss of tempo for a longer term gain in tempo... and its a liability.  It makes opening hands either amazing to terrible.  for example: Waste, Mishra, Aether Vial, Stormscape, Voidmage, Meddling mage, Brainstorm.  Great hand, if your opponent doesn't counter/destroy/deactivate your vial, If they do - you basically loose.

I most certainly do not lose when a vial gets countered, with the slow, control oriented decks that make up my metagame I do not need to worry about the loss of tempo from a first turn vial. And if it gets in play, then thats game against almost any deck.

#3 - Color heavy deck with roughly a third colorless lands.  I would highly suggest 1 mishra -> 1 Basic

Let me say just this-- the mana base works

#4 - Brainstorm seems ill-fit in fish.  Brainstorm at times is an insane card, but alot of times it just lets you look at 3 cards that you don't need and then know you're doomed for 2 turns.  5 Shuffle effects is not enough.  Fish generally cannot abuse Brainstorm without 6 fetchs + mystical + Enlightened tutor .. wich are rather unessisary.  Curiosity is a beter fit for a one drop.


You could be right. I just recently added in brainstorm and have not tested it to its fullest extent. I will consider putting some anti-aggro into this slot.

#5 - You have no evasion creatures, and no anti-aggro plan.  Ninja is only so good, when all your creatures are groundlings.  Flying men, Grayscale Gharzilla, Cloud of Faries, or even the lowly Manta Riders give you hope against other aggro decks.  Then you need to board in Jite's or Old Men of the Sea to seal the deal against aggro.   Jite in the hands of flying men - insanity - they rain down chaos like it was thier job.  Also an evasion creature wielding Curiosity is far better than a one-shot brainstorm with no shuffle effect.

As stated above, I will likely take one of your suggestions here. I especially like the Flying Men.

#6 - Four swords to plow ... every deck with the possible acception of some combo decks run at LEAST dark steel colosus.  It one for ones welders with little consiquence, strips the only win conditions in oath, and sends DSC out to tend to the pastures.  Arguably the best card in UW fish.

Yes, I have long considered putting in a fourth sword, but against some decks a fourth is simply redundant. I will consider sideboarding it.

#7 - Extract > Tormod's crypt.  If you work on your stax matchup then Extract starts to shine as a superior answer to almost every deck that you would want tormod's in for.  The only exception is Ichorid.  But other than that, Gifts, Storm, and Dragon ... only run 2-3 win conditons.  So with any luck the fishies will so the game long enough to Extract twice.  Null Rod is your ultimate silver bullet for Gifts and combo, and tormod's crypt + Null rod = Null Rod.  Even if you only Extract one of three winconditions, you may not have locked them out from winning, but you have bought yourself several turns.  Add in meddling mages nameing other wins, and you've got yourself plenty of time to swing for 20.  Lastly, an even BETTER use of extract is when you have mages nameing win conditions and you extract thier only bounce spell, they usually concede to that.  Another route (esp if its storm with 3-4 tendrils in deck) is to just pull broken cards like Yawgmoth's will.  In conclusion: Null Rod + Tormod's crypt = bad synergy,  Extract + Meddling mage = Good synergy.

This is difficult because right now like 25% of the decks in my metagame are Ichorid, but then there are also quite a few that extract would be perfect against.... You are definetly right about that stuff... so how about an SB that looks something like this... You'll notice I added in Umezawa's from earlier suggestions as well... They don't seem to fit the main deck given the lack of aggro in my metagame. But i believe they will be an excellent SB option.

3 Annul
3 Extract
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Null Rod
3 Umezawa's Jittle
1 Swords to Plowshares

I have also given the main portion a slight modification as per your suggestions.
-4 Brainstorm
+4 Flying Men or Cloud of Faeries

I really like having the Voidmage+Stormscape Synergy, However I am now considering removing them, or perhaps just the mages, for Curiosity and/or Umezawa's Jittle.

[pyr0ma5ta]

You still haven't fixed the fact that you listed 4 Chalice of the Void twice.  Please check your math.

[Harlequin]

Back on the Topic of Vial. 

#2 - I really do not see aether vial on your decklist... So ... whats the deal? I personally think its a terrible card for type 1. Its a short term loss of tempo for a longer term gain in tempo... and its a liability. It makes opening hands either amazing to terrible. for example: Waste, Mishra, Aether Vial, Stormscape, Voidmage, Meddling mage, Brainstorm. Great hand, if your opponent doesn't counter/destroy/deactivate your vial, If they do - you basically loose.

I most certainly do not lose when a vial gets countered, with the slow, control oriented decks that make up my metagame I do not need to worry about the loss of tempo from a first turn vial. And if it gets in play, then thats game against almost any deck.

If this is the case then It would cause you in the very least to mulligan more.  Unless you think you can win with the hand I listed above...
Waste, Mishra, Aether Vial, Stormscape, Voidmage, Meddling mage, Brainstorm

Do you Mull that hand for a 6er?  Or do you trust you colorless heavy mana base enough to throw you a fetch if your Vial gets countered/destroyed?

[Apprentice]

I am simply amazed that people cannot see how good it is. It alows you to send in creatures and Surprise! that welder you foolishly attacked with is dead and gone!

No one will attack with a welder when thier opponent has a Vial in play...

Who attacks with Welder anyway??

-Apprentice

[Fred The Ev]

Ok, so i've been consistently using bad examples, but remember, they're examples, of course, you're right that no one would attack with welders. Unless, of course, Welder was the only win condition in the deck. Which, believe it or not, I have seen before in any case, the point i was trying to make is that it is better to play your creatures as uncounterable instants for free, rather than hardcast them on your turn.

1) Don't double post. The edit button is there for a reason.
2) The list is illegal because you list "4 Chalice of the Void" in two different sections. From the mention of Aether Vial in the first post, it's pretty clear that one of those should list the Vials, but Harlequin and pyr0ma5ta have both brought this up, and you still haven't fixed the decklist.

-Jacob

ah, I see that now, I apologize for my mistake

[pyr0ma5ta]

I actually have tested the Storm Apprentice and have been highly unsatisfied by him.  His role is mostly served by Swords to Plowshares.  And if you're really planning on locking down 2 Angels, you're going to need 2 of him.  Locking down DSC is nice, but not if he just time walks 3 times and wins the game that way.  Highly unsatisfying.  Plow is infinitely better because it actually deals with welder, Trike, DSC, an angel, or other things that might be annoying.

Personally, I see Vintage as the Yawgmoth's Will decks against the anti-Yawgwill decks.  Yawgmoth's Will decks are setting up lots of card draw and filtering to see lots of cards and fill the grave with moxes and card draw.  Anti-Yawg decks are trying to either lock the game or win the game before Yawg can resolve.  Fish is clearly an anti-yawg deck, and I firmly believe that in order to not just autolose to Yawg, you MUST have Null Rod.  You just can't survive without it.  Gifts will just goldfish you on turn 4, and there's nothing you can do about it unless you have 3x Force.  If you want to test, I'm more than willing to crush your minimal disruption.  Adding Null Rod and Daze would go a long way to helping your Gifts/Slaver/combo matchup.

[Changster]

Who attacks with Welder anyway??

Actually, I attack with Welders  :lol:

Coming from a Stax standpoint, I feel this deck is lacking certain cards that I have seen in other solid Fish builds (Refer to Paul Nicolo's decks).  True Believer continues to be an underestimated and overlooked card that you may consider if not in the maindeck, but possibily in the sideboard.  Only having 3 StP's seems pretty weak especially when an active welder could be your worst enemy, welding bombs such as Sundering Titan in and out of play, completely wiping out your mana base while dodging removal.

[Imsomniac101]

@Changster:

Nicolo actually ran 3x StP's. I really don't like Vial + Chalice and have voiced my opinion against it in the past. However, if you must play with this card combination, I suggest that you take a look at Nicolo's Fish build:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=25348.0
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=14155

[Harlequin]

3 Annul
3 Extract
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Null Rod
3 Umezawa's Jittle
1 Swords to Plowshares

I have also given the main portion a slight modification as per your suggestions.
-4 Brainstorm
+4 Flying Men or Cloud of Faeries

I really like having the Voidmage+Stormscape Synergy, However I am now considering removing them, or perhaps just the mages, for Curiosity and/or Umezawa's Jittle.

Good start.  Remember that Jite + Flying man is extremely powerful against ichorid.  Every time you attack, you can stop 2 3/1's from dealing damage.  If you're stoping 2 guys per turn against ichorid they will eventually run out of black creatures and/or deck. 

To touch back on an earlier point I made.  I don't think your mana base can support Voidmage.  if your holding UU open each turn your holding back on a lot of your tempo... esp with a colorless heavy curve.  I say do some testing with Flyers and curiosity, It is amazing.

[pyr0ma5ta]

Who attacks with Welder anyway??

Actually, I attack with Welders  :lol:

Flying Men have been also unimpressive for me, since their best use is turning into a ninja.  Isamaru and Savannah Lions do so just as easily.  And True Believer is really important to have any chance against Gifts since he shuts down the best card in the deck and continues to beat for 2 in the meantime.  Also, have you tested Daze yet?  It's strong against just about everything, and it's demoralizing to get something critical like Gifts force spiked.  It's usually just enough tempo to allow your dudes to poke through for the last few points.

[ReAnimator]

My question is what advantage does this list have vs something established like the OFM/UW  list that Brian Finch (evilkin) and his team used to win 3 pieces of power at the last 2 Rochester SCG's and countless moxes and splits in 30+ player local events?

You have essentially taken an established and successful deck that has won a ton of power and eliminated most of the disruption with out testing, why? why is this better?

Sure with their list you can modify a little bit like stormscapes over Cloud Ect. but this list has no discernable advantages over that deck and a whole bunch of added weaknesses with very little justification.

/ sorry if this is a little inflammatory but really, do some research its not like UW fish hasn't been around for a long time.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Good start.  Remember that Jite + Flying man is extremely powerful against ichorid.  Every time you attack, you can stop 2 3/1's from dealing damage.  If you're stoping 2 guys per turn against ichorid they will eventually run out of black creatures and/or deck. 

I don't agree with that.  Ichorid goes so fast that you probably won't be able to get this going, since an average start would be turn 1 flying men, turn 2 jitte, turn THREE equip.  Ichorid will have a Darkblast in the yard by then, and they can just dredge it back, possibly at instant speed in response to your attack, and kill the Flying Men before damage.

[Fred The Ev]

My question is what advantage does this list have vs something established like the OFM/UW list that Brian Finch (evilkin) and his team used to win 3 pieces of power at the last 2 Rochester SCG's and countless moxes and splits in 30+ player local events?

You have essentially taken an established and successful deck that has won a ton of power and eliminated most of the disruption with out testing, why? why is this better?

Sure with their list you can modify a little bit like stormscapes over Cloud Ect. but this list has no discernable advantages over that deck and a whole bunch of added weaknesses with very little justification.

/ sorry if this is a little inflammatory but really, do some research its not like UW fish hasn't been around for a long time.

I am afraid that I have no idea who Brian Finch is, and I have never seen his decklist. You'll have to give me a link or something.

[ReAnimator]

well i just gave you his name and told you the 2 tournaments him and a teamate top 8'ed in so just using the deck database over at SCG it should be easy enough to find. The deck is called old faerie men though the earlier top 8 has it just generically labeled 'Fish'. But that is not the only deck you should be looking at there was the recent Savannah lion fish deck as well as other UW fish decks that have performed well which are all slightly different.

But like i said UW fish has been around for a loooong time so it is usually good to do some research into an established archetype before you go trying to reinvent the wheel.
You should see where the decks before you succeeded and failed before you try to come up from scratch a new update that is still dealing with the same threats and problems it had to deal with in the past. Then look at what your decklist adds to the archetype that wasn't thought of before.

[Apprentice]

Who attacks with Welder anyway??

Actually, I attack with Welders 

Oh, for all this time I thought welders were used for thier ability!!! How stupid was I :p.

Try Iciatian Javelineers for Ninja Feed. They can remove Welders and the like over and over again.

-Apprentice