Harlequin
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« on: February 23, 2006, 09:14:24 am » |
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MOST Current Decklist: Edited to reflect a post I made lower down
MANA - 4 mishra's workshop 1 tolarian acad 3 Ancient tomb 2 city of traitors 5 strip,waste
4 metal worker
5 mox 1 black lotus 1 sol ring 1 mana crypt
LOCKING - 1 3sphere 3 sphere of resistance from 4 4 tangle wire 4 chalice from 3
WIN CONDITIONS - 4 juggernaut 2 Karn 2 triskellion from 1 1 Platium Angel 2 Staff of domination
SUPPORT - 1 mem jar 3 bottled cloister 1 lightning greaves 3 crucible from 2 2 jester's cap
2 ankh of mish
SIDEBOARD - 4 Eon Hub 3 razormane masticore 4 damping matrixb from 3 2 defense grid from 3 2 jesters cap (4! total)
The Long and Short of it: More or less the deck is a rock. Active metalworker generally means lethal damage in a mater of turns supported by spheres and tangles to lock you out for those few turns. It runs some nasty tricks such as Worker/staff, Plats/Greaves, and the control trump card - Jester's Cap. All those "wins" are nice for adding sevearly broken elements to the deck but clearly the primary win of the deck is 5/3's to the face.
First the "cons": Outside of the 2 crucibles, I have no graveyard recursion. So if an artifact gets destroyed or countered, thats it for that artifact. This was the actualy concept of the deck, a shop deck that doesnt need welders to win, and doesnt care about graveyard hate. Another con is that It doesnt have any colored mana, therefore it cannot tutor and has no real draw engin to speak of. What the deck gives me is what I have to work with, so I'm really in "topdeck" mode all game.
Card Choices - "understanding the pile"
- Bottled Cloister: I like this card for a shop deck that doesnt need a discard outlet. I think it fits right in with the deck. Because I dont run welders, duress can get to be a pain in the butt... not with the Cloister getting my back. Also cloister has good synergy with Razormane. After haveing metalworker poop out my hand, The cloister ensures that I have a steady stream of artifacts to maintain my board.
-Ankh of Mishra: I remember playing with this card YEARS ago, and it was ok given the tempo of the decks at the time. Then It's coolness waned and I never considered it a good card. Until I rethough the card in a world where almost every deck runs fetchlands. Fetching a land for 5 life is hardly even worth it... add in the fact that with my spheres and tangles, my opponent needs to many many lands in play to win. And ankh can easily do 10-12 damage a game! It also hoses down my opponents ability to go crazy with crucible wasteland. Makes 'em think more. See Post Below...
-Greaves: I like the greaves as a one of. They give me protection for my metalworker, and for my plat. Also the tighten the clock from juggernaught if they are already on the board. I think a 1-of greaves adds enought to the deck to justify one slot.
Moving on to the sideboard: -Eon Hub: "WTF?" yes thats what I thought too when I saw it in a top8 decklist from germany. But then I started thinking about how much actually happens in T1 durring each upkeep. It effectivly smites oath. --EDIT I forgot about this: It also shuts down Squee, Ichorid, and Ashen Goul wich is GG against Zombie infestation or Ichorid (end EDIT)--. It makes at least 8 cards in stax litteraly do nothing. AND MOST importantly, It means i dont need to run REB or any enchantment destruction. Why would I be foreced to run REB or enchantment hate? to SHUT DOWN the bane of this deck: Energy Flux (and his lil'brudder Kitaki). This leads right into the next SB card that seams like overkill...
- Razormane Masticore: first off this card has AMAZING synergy with Eon Hub (cuts out all the fat and leaves all the flavor), and notable synergy with Bottled cloister. Why not regular Masticore 1.0? Well most decks that I need creature kill against will be running null rod so "triggered creature removal for the win!". Razormane + Eon hub makes it difficult for me to loose g2 and 3 against any fish variant.
--- Going back to the eon hub for a sec: Bottled cloister and Eon hub are not as bad together as you would think. Bottled cloister does nothing under the eon hub... but at least I still have all my cards in hand. And If I'm only drawing one card a turn - but my opponent cant use oath! thats worth it. I generally side our only one cloister going 4hub-2BC when I side in the Razormanes.
-Damping Matrix: Originally was a pithing needle - wich I didnt like. there are just way too many activated abilities that bone me in stax (Karn, mox monkey, welder). And then add the additional activated threats from CS (slaver, pent, and to a lesser extent trisk) add all of that together and pithing needle ends up being sub-par. once I was set on Eon-razormane, I was surprised how nicely damping matrix fit in my deck. It only hurts Karn, Trisk, staff, and cap... and I side out at least 2 or 3 cards from that list when I'm sideing in the Matrix. I do loose some game against dragon by not haveing needle. But locking stuff + 4 caps are good enough to beat dragon. Also when has dragon done well in the past 3 months? I needed a better game against stax, and if it costs me a game or two to dragon, I'll take that trade. It also means I would get savagly pwned to Madness ... but who plays madness?
-Defense Grid: I think this is possibly the weakest card on my sideboard. But it basically ensures that I win against Drain.dec. My deck plays right into drain because everything is SO juciy AND because I show them my hand right before I play my spells! thanks alot Metalworker! Metalworker lets them pick exactly wich spell they want to counter. Chalice for 2 will never hit the board, but if I do defense grid -> chalice for 2 hopefully I can get one of them to resolve (if both stick it is definately gg).
- four jester's caps?!: Since my friend has been running extract on his fish sideboard, I'm starting to see the ultimate power of the cap. I instantly fell in love with it after playing with it. Now I really want to have 4 availible to the deck. I actually really WANTED 3MD and 1 on the side, but I think 2MD2 is more consistanly good.
THE REAL PROBLEM:
Ok For some reason ... I always loose to stax. I dont know why. On paper my deck should be able to beat stax. I have Plently of perminants, MORE mana then they do, More win conditions, and between the matrix and the hub I have the ability to deaden like 10-20 cards in thier deck. But I consistantly loose to them in practice. Also game 1 takes a RETARDEDLY log time to finish (about 30 mins or so). Leaveing me only 10 mins per round to play catchup and win. So now my question to the community is - How do I side to beat stax? Right now I generally go: +4 Hub +3 Matrix +3 Razormane -4 tangle wire -1 cloister -2 Caps -1 3sphere -2 staffs Is this correct? If you're playing stax, what would you side in against this deck - assuming you only saw cards from the main deck? If you play stax, how do you think your matchup is against me, and what would your tactics be against me? Is -4 Tanglewire for +4 hubs smart or foolish? shoud I be keeping my 3sphere in?
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« Last Edit: February 24, 2006, 10:17:38 am by Harlequin »
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Pyromaniac
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2006, 10:02:00 am » |
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You lose consistantly probably because stax runs colored cards and you don't. This deck just begs to have it's few threats owned by a Welder, or get crushed by Tinker -> whatever, Balance or any other card. You have no outs versus a Welder, which imho is the main reason you lose to stax. They go Shaman, Welder, eat a mox, weld out your Juggie, Worker or whatever and crush you.
Stax can board in colored stuff like Heretics, Rack and Ruin etc, all of which are a problem to you. There's no real problemsolver for this I think, but maybe someone else has an idea.
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It's hard to be religious, when certain people don`t get incinerated by lightning...
On another note, while Ancestral is clearly very very good, having it in your opening is hand is not. - AmbivalentDuck
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Harlequin
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2006, 10:24:58 am » |
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I will say that the R&R is where the game gets turned from a struggle to a loss. Welder, Shaman, Viashio ... that is why I run the damping matrix. But perhapse it is not enough. Aslo all of the non-R&R threats are creatures ... wich is why I try and get the Razormane's In. With any luck I can get a razormane on the board before my opponent gets a red creature on the board... too bad razormane doesnt cost 1 mana =/
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« Last Edit: February 23, 2006, 10:29:02 am by Harlequin »
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pyr0ma5ta
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More cowbell
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2006, 12:34:19 pm » |
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Bottled Cloister is a severe liability when lots of people are packing rebuild or hurkyls. Either of those in responce to the flashing out your hand trigger is definitely game.
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Team Mishra's Jerkshop: Mess with the best, die like the rest.
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Harlequin
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2006, 12:44:53 pm » |
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I had thought about that originally, but it is not as bad as you would think. I generally rarely play cloister as the first card out of my hand. It is generally the LAST, or one of the last cards I end up playing out of my hand. I use it more as a Howling Mine than anything else ... Just a howling mine that costs double and doesnt give my opponent a better advantage then I'm getting. I have had cloister get bounced/destroyed and it is really not as bad as it would seem. I am very reserved in my play of the cloister, I only play them to maintain board possision when i have emptied my hand, and to soften the card disadvantage created by Razormane until I can find a hub.
of the 3 draw cards I considered, this one was the most apealing. Graftedskullcap is way worse, because I don't have welders, thus the discard might as well be RFG. And Howling Mine is just a bad card in Type1. Giving my opponents card advantage is the last thing I need. Lastly Mind's Eye, It is an interesting choice, I have admittedly not tested it, but again I'm rather happy with the cloister. If The cloister some how does me wronge I will give the minds eye its chance.
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Evenpence
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2006, 01:37:15 pm » |
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Your deck also loses to CS, only because of Welder. Welder tears this deck to pieces. Crucible tears this deck to pieces as well, because they keep stripping your workshops/academy/tombs, etc. Shaman tears this deck to pieces because he kills your moxes. You can't kill his either. Basically, this deck is PERFECT for losing to Stax. I've played mono-brown before, and I've concluded that it's horrible without Welders. If you want mono-brown with Welders, just do Ubastax. That's seriously all it is. ...This deck just begs to have it's few threats owned by a Welder, or get crushed by Tinker -> whatever, Balance or any other card...
Balance? I completely agree with Welder, somewhat agree with Tinker (although it's only a 1-of), but BALANCE? Please tell me you meant some other card and you don't actually believe Balance wrecks MONO BROWN.
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« Last Edit: February 23, 2006, 01:40:54 pm by Evenpence »
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[17:25] Desolutionist: i hope they reprint empty the warrens as a purple card in planar chaos
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Harlequin
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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2006, 01:48:06 pm » |
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What would you say if I scrapped the maindeck Staffs and something for main deck Damping matrix? Is that Vialable? I'd rather not play some cookie-cutter ubastax or welder.dec.
Believe me, i've tested the decks so that I know what I loose to... I'm trying to wrap my head around what decks like CS and Stax have in the board after seeing my pre-board deck.
Jester's cap is a potent card against any control deck with limited wins. How many wins does control slaver run? im willing to bet that if I pull Tinker-Mindslaver-Randomwin useing a cap, my game will dramitically improve.
How many answers in the Main and on the side does Stax and CS run for Damping matrix?
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Harlequin
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2006, 01:53:16 pm » |
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Crucible tears this deck to pieces as well, because they keep stripping your workshops/academy/tombs, etc.
IF I can get an active metalworker, the deck doesnt even really need lands. I understand that is a major major IF. Stick metalworker with anhk of mishrah and my deck doesnt really fear crucible/wasteland lock. It is hardly a lock, and it hardly slows my deck WHILE baiting them into a life race under the Ankh. That has shown its worth in testing. Aslo FYI I dont need a list of reasons why I can't rely on metalworks ... and/or a list of the ways metalworker can be stopped.
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brianpk80
2015 Vintage World Champion
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2006, 09:05:13 pm » |
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Crucible tears this deck to pieces as well, because they keep stripping your workshops/academy/tombs, etc.
IF I can get an active metalworker, the deck doesnt even really need lands. I understand that is a major major IF. Stick metalworker with anhk of mishrah and my deck doesnt really fear crucible/wasteland lock. It is hardly a lock, and it hardly slows my deck WHILE baiting them into a life race under the Ankh. That has shown its worth in testing. Aslo FYI I dont need a list of reasons why I can't rely on metalworks ... and/or a list of the ways metalworker can be stopped. I've played this deck in its testing mode and can vouch for it. It's quite strong, and the Razormane Masticores are the stars of the deck. -Brian
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"It seems like a normal Monk deck with all the normal Monk cards. And then the clouds divide... something is revealed in the skies."
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Juggernaut GO
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2006, 10:41:45 pm » |
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just concentrate on metalworker and win on turn 2 every game.
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Rand Paul is a stupid fuck, just like his daddy. Let's go buy some gold!!!
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Harlequin
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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2006, 07:12:55 am » |
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I felt the deck needed more threat density so I cut the anhk (wich I more or less considered a card that could make my opponent stall out) for a slightly inproved game1
-2 Anhk (to 0) +1 Crucible (now 3) +1 Trike (now 2)
I think this gives me more hope against stax game 1.
Also I finally decided on going -1 Sphere of Resistance (to 3) +1 Chalice of the Void (to 4)
Chalice for 1 on turn 1 is far too powerful. And with all the 2 colorless lands, it is EXTREMELY easy for this deck to do. This deck has a grand total of ONE card that gets hurt by chalice for 1 - sol ring. oh well, it still gives me 2 mana from my hand when i have the workers active. Also against drain decks I want to be sure I can pop out a chalice for 2 before I start "going crazy"
"in the end they all obeyed it" I finaly know what the matrix is, and have made this adjustment to the side: -1 Defense Grid (now2) +1 Damping Matrix (now4!)
The reasoning is two fold, first off I needed a slight edge against gifts and post side i have 4 chalice, 2 grids, and 4 caps. upping the main deck chalice count to 4 made droping a grid more doable. Now have 4-of silver bullet for stax and CS wich were by far my worst matchups. All i have to do is win before they find a R&R.
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« Last Edit: March 06, 2006, 09:43:06 am by Harlequin »
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Harlequin
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2006, 07:33:50 am » |
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Oh also about not haveing answeres to DSC. Well i have several "crappy" answers to DSC.
#1 Sphere him out tinker costs 3 mana, and with spheres and what not I should by some time to find a suitable more perminant solution. #2 Cap him out. Not impossible, not easy to do early. #3 Staff him out. Even without the shear stupidness of metalworker/staff I can use the staff's 4T: ability to "tap target creature" that will work until i can find a metalworker, or drop a threat worthy of winning the game.
Admitidly These answeres are not bounce or STP, so a turn one DSC is definatly no fun. I don't have a great game against the big man, but I dont autoscoop to him either. I just have to pray I topdeck a staff. =P
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Ben Kossman
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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2006, 09:38:26 am » |
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I was working on something similar a few months back and this guy Jesse River made his own more disruptive build and won a tournament with it. It's in the archives somewhere. The deck abused Trike with Arcbound Ravager/Crusher and was quite versatile despite being all 'facts. Here's a rough list off the top of my head with a couple of new cards.
4 Triskelion 4 Arcbound Crusher 4 Metalworker 4 Arcbound Ravager 4 Myr Retriever 4 Umezawa's Jitte (Kills Welder along with just about anything else with Trike) 4 Skullclamp 4 Pithing Needle (Also broken) 4 Chalice of the Void 4 Wasteland 5 Moxen 1 Lotus 1 Crypt 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Vault 1 Voltaic Key 1 Strip Mine 1 Tolarian Academy 4 Workshop 4 Ancient Tomb
But the general idea is to use Trike/Ravager for a double digit Alpha Strike. Your build looks fairly competitive but I would highly recommend checking out said thread if you can find it.
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"To truly be safe, we must kill everyone." George Jacques Danton; Committee of Public Safety
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