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Author Topic: R/W/U (Dutch) Fish  (Read 1014 times)
Phi
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« on: March 08, 2006, 09:54:24 am »

Since i noticed there isn't a thread about U/W/R Fish, and I'm currently playing my own version of the deck, i thought you could help me improve it.
The deck is called Dutch fish (or sometimes Red Swordfish), because it contains all the colors of the Dutch flag.

The reason I play fish, is that it's not very difficult to play, and it isn't combo. Also I don't want to play Oath and haven't got the cards for Stax. The next deck that popped into my mind was fish. The reason why my fish contains 3 colors, is because I couldn't really choose between U/W and Gay/R. Both decks have their own answers to the current Vintage decks, and i couldn't really figure out which one would suit me the best.

Notification: The deck is 'pretty budget' because at the moment I don't own much power and semi-power. Only one mox is in it.

Dutch Fish

Maindeck:
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Aether Vial
1 Mox Sapphire

2 Gorilla Shaman
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Spiketail Hatchling
2 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Meddling Mage

4 Standstill

3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Strip Mine
4 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SB:
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Waterfront Bouncer
3 Chill
2 Energy Flux
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Balance
2 Seal of Cleansing


Why I play my fish like this:

Aether Vial - Because of the great amount of creatures in the list, Vial usually comes in quite handy. Almost every creature (despite Ninja) has a CC of 1 or 2. So Vial isn't really slow. The great advantage Vial gives, is that you don't have to spend your mana to creatures.
Vial rocks with Hatchling, because it turns Hatchling into an extra Daze.
Usually I like to have a Vial in my opening hand, so I fitted 4 of them in the list to make sure it comes really quick.

Only one Mox - Sapphire is the only mox I own at the moment, so I couldn't really fit in more.

Swords to Plowshares - Of course it ownes against Oath, also it takes out Platinum.

4 Flooded Strand - I guess this has to change to 2 Strand and 2 Delta, but I'm not sure if I have to play 4 or 5 fetch. I'm currently playing 7 duals, so usually there are one or two in my opening hand. I believe 4 fetch is enough at the moment.


Points of improvement:
Vial against Null Rod - With a lot of decks playing Null Rod, Vial isn't that strong anymore. What is your oppinion? Should I stay with Vial or change it to Null Rod?

Kataki against Goblin Vandal - Kataki doesn't necessarily kill artifacts, Vandal does. Also, Vandal doesn't affect your own artifacts. Should I swap it in for Katakis?

Stifle - I think Stifle will do good in this deck, because it smashes fetchlands and strip-effects. It also holds back Ninjas in fish-mirror, and kicks tons of other things. The problem of course is that the deck hasn't got enough slots left for it. What has it got to replace and how many Stifles should I put in?

If you see other points of improvement, I sure would like to hear them. Smile
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The Witch-King
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2006, 10:38:33 am »

Well i think you either need to play Chalice of the Void or Null Rod main. Because your deck cant go broken you need to make sure the opponent also cant do this, mainly fish does this by using one of the aformentioned cards. If you choose to play Null Rod you have to drop the vials ofcourse. But Chalices can obviously be played next to vials. Chalice comes down faster (presuming you play it for 0) but it isnt that good when you are on the play or if you draw it in the later game, while rod still nails your opponents moxen if dropped in a later turn.

So both cards have advantages and disadvantages, so you need to figure out which you like best/is best in your meta. But i think you need to at least run one of them.

Hope this helped
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Harlequin
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2006, 10:54:55 am »

If you go with chalice then you need to up your monkey count.  The thinking is this:

Gorilla shaman punishes over-comitment of moxen, but smashing them
Chalice punishes hold back moxen because it means they never get played.

Ideally you will see one of those cards early game, and one late game for cleanup.

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Duncan
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2006, 03:40:23 pm »

4 Flooded Strand - I guess this has to change to 2 Strand and 2 Delta, but I'm not sure if I have to play 4 or 5 fetch. I'm currently playing 7 duals, so usually there are one or two in my opening hand. I believe 4 fetch is enough at the moment.
I would play 5 Fetch if i were you, and yes i would split them like you suggest. Fetches fill your graveyard which is necessary for you Lavamancers. They also work well against wastelands if you don't pop them. Third they let you choose which color you get, which can come in quite handy if you play 3 colors and only 3 red sources.

Points of improvement:
Vial against Null Rod - With a lot of decks playing Null Rod, Vial isn't that strong anymore. What is your oppinion? Should I stay with Vial or change it to Null Rod?
I think one of the powers in your fish deck lies in Vial, so i would not cut them. But i would add chalice as an answer to moxes/storm combo.


Kataki against Goblin Vandal - Kataki doesn't necessarily kill artifacts, Vandal does. Also, Vandal doesn't affect your own artifacts. Should I swap it in for Katakis?
Goblin Vandal eats red mana. You only have 3 red sources, which you also need for lavamancer, and are all nonbasic. Kataki's good when you don't attack and Vandal not. Kataki > Vandal in this deck.

Stifle - I think Stifle will do good in this deck, because it smashes fetchlands and strip-effects. It also holds back Ninjas in fish-mirror, and kicks tons of other things. The problem of course is that the deck hasn't got enough slots left for it. What has it got to replace and how many Stifles should I put in?
I don't think Stifle fits well into your deck. You want to cast your Vial turn 1; the turn in which Stifle is best in my opinion.

If you see other points of improvement, I sure would like to hear them. Smile
I would change your sideboard a bit: i would swap Chills for BEB/Hydroblast.
1. they don't work against your own red spells (although you have vials to dodge it).
2. combined with lavamancers it is really good removal against goblins. kill 1 and fill your grave. Also works against turn 1 lackey of you're not on the draw.

Good luck with your deck!
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