GWS' IT primer (it's finally up!)

[warble]

I am really disappointed in the control slaver matchup.  I'd consider post-sideboard the match is much harder than you imagine.  Unless your first turn is amazing or they don't draw a crypt or tutor it's just a bad matchup.  Considering welder blocks or lava dart shut off the confidant beats as well as triskelion, it's more like "can I do a massive tendrils twice before they draw anything of relevance"  The exception is going off on turns 1 or 2 with duress/therapy backup.  Are you just really aggressive with your mulling against CS?  Do you scoop to arcane lab if CS has a threat?  I'd love to see you beat arcane lab with tormod's crypt on the table.  You've got some skillllllllls if you can do that with this build.

[Moxlotus]

can I do a massive tendrils twice before they draw anything of relevance"

Well, consider that an easy way to win is to cast both of those tendrils in the same turn.  I think people are underestimating how reliable this strategy really is.  Don't forget, you still can combo out with Will, Bargain and Necro just like any other match.

If they are blocking with Welder, good--then they aren't able to Weld in a Slaver.

I'm not sure why people refer to adding in Bobs as the "draw-go" strategy.  If you look at what cards are coming out for the sideboard cards coming in, most of the cards coming out don't help you go off.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Like Endress said, most of the time it is pretty straight forward what to get. Most of the time you either need a) mana b) tutor or c) disruption. All of those are simply answered with a single card x3.

I can see this being very strong.  However, intuition's biggest strength (when not counting AK), in my mind, is by ensuring at least a 2 for 1 trade once it's resolved due to flashback, dredge spells, etc.  This is why getting coffin purge, 2x Deep analysis versus slaver, for example, make intuition amazing post board for a lot of matchups.  However, I didn't see anything in the list that has this sort of synergy where you're effectively getting 2 for 1.

A similar port of this kind that comes to mind is bringing Gifts Ungiven into TPS, which reinforces my logic of getting more for less.  With gifts you get both a full grave, and two threats for a control player to deal with (one of them often being Will).  Obviously Gifts' restrictions make it less flexible than intuition, but it does generate card advantage.  In cases where combo doesn't need card advantage, but card selection, Intuition is not particularly useful, since you can't get a specific one-of.  There's a palpable difference between the power levels of Bargain, Necro, and Ancestral Recall.

So if you're getting either mana or a bomb, I don't see intuition being any better than, say Grim Tutor, unless you really value fewer mana requirements and instant speed over optimal tutoring (if so, please make your point why).

In the case where you get 3x Duress or something at EOT, and then untap and win through a single counter, I see intuition being pretty good although it still takes 4 mana to do what more disruption would do with less loss of tempo.

The biggest lump comes when facing hate or post board.  In drain based intuition decks, intuition gets to be twice as effective game 2 for most matchups.  I don't see that in your board, except for maybe with therapy.  Especially when trying to get an answer for something like Arcane lab (i.e. not artifacts), what would you intuition for, vamp, DT, grim > Chain of Vapors?

I know that bobs offer a different dimension to the control match post board, but they have nothing at all to do with intuition.  Since you claim that slaver and gifts are some of the better matchups, how does intuition fit into this scheme either vs a wall of counters, or good combo hate?

Thanks for explaining.

[Moxlotus]

Gifts isn't favorable.  That is a really hard match since they can randomly kill you very quickly.  Intuition isn't necessarily amazing vs control, but it does let the deck gain the ability to combo without risking Draw 7 and giving control a few counters.  Often Intuition is a good bait spell EOT.  If they counter it, great--combo out on your turn if you can.  If they don't, great--your yard is lethal now.  Every tutor you have is not lethal.

Deep Analysis was in the deck for a while and it was in almost every Intuition pile for the reasons you listed.  However, just because it was always useful doesn't mean that it was the optimal choice.  We reevaluated the decisions while playing games and discovered that simply getting another bomb would be just as good and be useful without Intution.  Eric can probably explain it better, since I know I did a lousy job.

So if you're getting either mana or a bomb, I don't see intuition being any better than, say Grim Tutor, unless you really value fewer mana requirements and instant speed over optimal tutoring (if so, please make your point why).
 

Girm Tutor doesn't let you cast a bonus 2 rituals after you Will like Intuition does.  This is huge.  Intuition powers the deck's Wills.  Long and TPS used Draw 7s to power out storm--IT uses Intuition for mana to make sure there is enough mana and storm to combo out.

Intuition also allows us to combo out around Chalice and Null Rod.  Just get whatever can be played.  This is another huge benefit of Intuition.  Getting Rit, Rit, Rit, or Cab, Cab, Lotus allow IT to run over a chalice or Rod unphased.

IT uses Intuition in ways that most other decks with Intuition don't.

@ Arcane Lab-if you're afraid of it just put another Chain and a Truth in the board.  I haven't seen anyone play Lab in a sideboard for a while.  It wasn't a concern while building the deck.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Control is handily a good match for IT, particularly after sideboarding

Gifts isn't favorable

I would say Gifts is THE control deck to beat.  At least in the first quarter of 2006 it placed nearly twice as many T8's as Slaver.  It should be clear what the expectations are for this matchup in the primer, but there's some confusion.

Intuition isn't necessarily amazing vs control...If they counter it, great

Intuition powers the deck's Wills

Both of these seem like weak arguments for the card.  I argued that there's no reason for a control player to counter the intuition, and haven't seen any argument to the contrary.  If bad players are countering intuition, that's they're problem, but it doesn't explain intuition's inclusion any better.  As for the 2nd, I understand that intuition makes it so you 'just win' with a resolved Yawgmoth's Will, but let's face it, the goal of almost every combo deck is resolving Will.  That's the trick, not filling up the yard.  If something allowed the deck to abuse Will turn 1 (ala pre-restriction Long), then it would be impressive, but from what I've seen that's not the case.

Deep Analysis was in the deck

I wasn't really arguing for the inclusion of DA in this deck, as I would suspect what your conclusion seems to be that it's clunky given this deck's play.  However, I just didn't see real combinations with this card and anything else in the deck besides Will.  Given that intuition seems to be the real evolution this deck has added beyond existing combo decks, I wanted to know why it's working.

[Moxlotus]

Both of these seem like weak arguments for the card.  I argued that there's no reason for a control player to counter the intuition, and haven't seen any argument to the contrary.  If bad players are countering intuition, that's they're problem, but it doesn't explain intuition's inclusion any better.  As for the 2nd, I understand that intuition makes it so you 'just win' with a resolved Yawgmoth's Will, but let's face it, the goal of almost every combo deck is resolving Will.  That's the trick, not filling up the yard.  If something allowed the deck to abuse Will turn 1 (ala pre-restriction Long), then it would be impressive, but from what I've seen that's not the case.

In order for Will to work, you still need to generate 9 storm and 2BB.  Storm decks have traditionally done this with draw 7s, necro, bargain, desire, or a grave filled Will.  This deck does not run many draw 7s, nor Desire--it is really focused on will with the off chance of randomly winning with Bargain or Necro.  Yes, the goal of every combo deck is resolving will--a lethal will.  If you replaced the Intuitions with, say, more tutors, sure you could tutor for will--but you would be short storm and mana for the win.  For Will to win you the game you need stuff in your graveyard.  Without Intuition, the deck doesn't have many ways to get stuff in the yard.  Intuition puts exactly what you want in the graveyard so you can win once you resolve will.  It is possible to win with Will without casting Intuition, but you must have a lot of acceleration and tutors to do it--its certainly possible, but Intuition gives a different option.  Intuition allows you to win the game when you have very few cards in hand or gas in the grave without giving your opponent 7 new cards--something that other storm decks can't do as well.  (well, barring necro & bargain--but IT can do it too).

This in addition to the stuff I said earlier about Stax.  During development of the deck Stax was the deck to beat, so the deck was primarily designed with that in mind.  I must highlight that fact as to a big plus for Intuition being in the deck.  I cannot stress that enough.  Intuition in combination with the mana base allow the deck to run over Stax--especially Uba Stax (which were huge during the development).

I would say Gifts is THE control deck to beat.  At least in the first quarter of 2006 it placed nearly twice as many T8's as Slaver.  It should be clear what the expectations are for this matchup in the primer, but there's some confusion.

I agree that it was confusing.  I'm assuming that line should read "Control Slaver"...

edit:

I can see this being very strong.  However, intuition's biggest strength (when not counting AK), in my mind, is by ensuring at least a 2 for 1 trade once it's resolved due to flashback, dredge spells, etc.

You need to look at Intuition in a new light.  It isn't a card advantage engine in this deck.  It is an instant speed tutor that also loads the yard for Will.  That is exactly what the deck needs after cutting draw 7s.

I realize that I probably bloviated a bunch, but I hope everyone understands what I'm trying to say.  If not, I can try to clarify.

[ErkBek]

Control is handily a good match for IT, particularly after sideboarding

I would say Gifts is THE control deck to beat.  At least in the first quarter of 2006 it placed nearly twice as many T8's as Slaver.  It should be clear what the expectations are for this matchup in the primer, but there's some confusion.

I'm not sure how endress wrote that. The deck was designed to beat stax, oath, and CS. Gifts is always gonna be a tough matchup for any mid-speed combo deck, you must understand that. In the words of JDizzle

I'll have a lot to say a little later (it's finals week and I need to get this take home exam done), but I can tell you why your Gifts match is rough.  Gifts is a very fast deck, and no deck in the format outcontrols the Gifts deck (ESPECIALLY the Meandeck Variant with 4 Merchant Scrolls).  What you're doing is getting into a goldfishing race with Gifts (which combo does anyway), and since their disruption is objectively more powerful than yours and they have infinite more ways to replenish its countermagic faster than you can rebuild threats, Gifts is able to disrupt you better than you can disrupt it and it overpowers you.

You seem to be following the "one quality protected threat" philosophy of TPS.  Ultimately, what made that philosophy die out was the increasing speed of Mana Drain decks that mostly blended in to take that role.  If you're playing FoW, the natural question to ask was "why not Mana Drain too?"  As decks did that, their disruption became a lot stronger, and they were able to much more effectively resolve one quality threat.  Gifts Ungiven gives you exactly what you need to win.  That That's how it replaced Timetwister and crew, and why TPS fell by the wayside.

Intuition powers the deck's Wills

Both of these seem like weak arguments for the card.  I argued that there's no reason for a control player to counter the intuition, and haven't seen any argument to the contrary.  If bad players are countering intuition, that's they're problem, but it doesn't explain intuition's inclusion any better.  As for the 2nd, I understand that intuition makes it so you 'just win' with a resolved Yawgmoth's Will, but let's face it, the goal of almost every combo deck is resolving Will.  That's the trick, not filling up the yard.  If something allowed the deck to abuse Will turn 1 (ala pre-restriction Long), then it would be impressive, but from what I've seen that's not the case.

Before the deck was released, Intuition set up drawing 7 cards. Control players saw it as a must counter, fearing AK's or DA's, especially if you start the game with bluffing that you are a mana drain deck. I've changed my deck accordingly and dropped the Intuitions down to 2 in favor of another merchant scroll. I think that if you are going to play IT, then try some things yourself to fit your metagame. You don't have to run card for card my list. Maybe you could try -1 Merchant, -1 Remand, +2 DA to make intuition a real threat if control players aren't countering it.

Deep Analysis was in the deck

There are lots of situations that you wish Intuition was a draw spell. usually this occurs when you have a lot of permanent mana sources and don't have a tutor in your hand. So an intuition for DT, grim, and grim doesn't really get a whole lot done. Also times when you've got lots of disruption and not a lot of business is a good time to find DA.

I've found that when 1 DA was in the deck that you find it with just about every intuition. You then draw a bunch of cards and are often no better than you were before. I don't think this deals with gifts just racing you.

[Bum_of_keld]

Then perhaps we should conclude that intuition plays the role of the answer to decks that sought to overuse artifact mana denial stratagies (ala red stax variants, varios fish lists..). I was having alot of trouble with these decks and your right it certainly sets up the rituals and is exactly what the doctor ordered for TPS-esque TOA decks. But what it doesn't  do is answer the problem i believe TPS and its decendants have had since control slaver first hit the scene and then gifts, the fundamental idea of setting up and resolving one GG threat has bein enveloped by mana drain control and is being done more effectively. I dont argue that mana drain control is fundamentally "more powerfull" etc etc, im just suggesting that perhaps the ideas of TPS have already bein inherited and combo needs to focus on how it can beat control at what is essentialy their own game.

So now i ask, what would your UB maybe a splash combo deck look like if it was setup almost exclusively for preboard slaver and then again for preboard gifts and then what each list would look like for postboard. The premise is, what exactly do we need to do to win these matchups consistantly? What do we need to emphasize, is it a couple key interactions with powerfull spells we already play or is there something very different we need to do like bring in the bobs or maybe even something like sui and take them by surprise. You guys have tested the hell out of these matchups, so i know you guys have alot of insight into what im trying to get at.

[Moxlotus]

Your statement is not new to our ears.  JD also showed us that the idea of "one protected threat" of TPS has been incorporated into drain combo decks that are more consistant and have better protection.  The difference is Rituals are still faster and IT has a better game against Stax.

We are currently working on different ideas (most of them terrible, since most of all ideas are terrible) on how to improve the gifts matchup in particular.  We have a few sideboards floating around that need to be tested and tweaked.  The current idea game 1 (which Becker can explain better) is to Merchant Scroll for Ancestral ASAP to gain card advantage and protect it with Remand (or duress/FoW if needed) for more card advantage--especially if it draws out a FoW.  I know I made it sound terrible--but its something similar to that is how we have consistantly beat the hell out of Fisher (who got 1st day 2 Richmond) when he plays Slaver.  The downside is that gifts is faster and that slow plan doesn't work out so well.  I've come up with a radical new idea I'm excited about (of course, I get excited about a lot of my ideas), but it needs testing before I release it.

[sean1i0]

The current idea game 1 [against Gifts] (which Becker can explain better) is to Merchant Scroll for Ancestral ASAP to gain card advantage and protect it with Remand (or duress/FoW if needed) for more card advantage--especially if it draws out a FoW.

I'm sure that you've considered this already, but I think it's important enough to say anyway:  Against MDGifts, this is a play that could very well lose you the game, as there is a fairly significant probability that MDG will have a Misdirection in hand and, especially if they know what you're playing, are extremely likely to have a Force of Will (from either their own Ancestral Recall or their merchant scrolls) also.  It seems that if they do end up misdirecting your ancestral to their hand, that would, in and of itself, almost be enough card advantage + tempo to win MDG the game.  Of course, against BMGifts this play is much safer.

[Moxlotus]

Nobody plays MDGifts so I don't think any of us has tested against it.  I know I haven't.