Darktog -a new way to view-

[Darkiller]

Hi everybody.. i'm an italian guy living in Florence, i'm a friend of the best italian playa, and i wanna expose you my last idea af a new/old type of deck...

(first of all sry for my bad english and please correct me about it )

after 3 years of play only, and let me repeat only, tog deck or similar, i think that i can say my opinion about it.. but many peaople in italy still consider only the "holy" words of a few playa as the "right" way to play these decks...

i'm writing here 'cause the whole part of u american playa don't play these tog decks.. and u still play archetype like oath or control slaver decks... that in italy are really extinted... the biggest reason is for the full presence in tournament of t1t.deck(u can see list of this deck on www.theabyss.biz).. the deck of lorenzo fedeli that some of u examined in tha last months.. but it also has been modified in a BAD(in my opinion) way..u added card like tendrils of agony.. that is too heavy for this deck.. cause of its bb casting cost ... it's too heavy for mana base of this deck, that was created to be stronger against decks that abuse of wasteland or mana denial... so playing 3 underground sea and 3 volcanic island is not a good way to support a tendrils of agony.. also beacause in ur country many people still play stacks decks... that not so many times let u have 2 underg or 1 underg and jet in play...but this is not the topic on my mind... i wanna talk to u about my new way of playing this tog deck...
i'll going to list it and then have a little comment... after i can answer to ur all asks...

DARTOG:

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
4 Cunning Wish
3 Duress
2 Deep Analisys
3 Intuition
1 Frantic Search
2 Psychatog
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Rebuild
4 Underground Sea
4 island
1 Cephalid Colisseum
5 mox
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
side:
1 Hideous Laughter
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Pithing Needle
3 Annull
1 Misdirection
1 Darkblast
1 Gush
1 Ebony Charm

i've chosen this ub conformation to avoid all kind of land denial, color screw or similar things that make me very hungry...
i also chose not to play the calssical cards like tinker+dsc(or sundering)+ recoup cause i don't want never never never had them on my first hand obliging me to have a mulligan or draw a stoney card when i need something that make me resolve some strange situation... but i have to pu the second tog to close the match easily .. and so i don't have to serch it for,,,

talking about several cards.. :

deep analisys: these 2 card make me autowin mirror matches .. i've not to spent many words about these...the ar strictly glued with intuition and akk as u can see if u read any1 of the old version of tog in extend.. a deck that dominated the field for several years...the slops is that u have 2 dead card against artifact deck.. 2 sorcery with high cc is a very stoney card in these matches...the real doubt that grows in my mind is that against gift deck 2 merchant scroll could be very very prefereable to deep... but in that case u have a worst match against mirror deck... so i think these 2 slots have to be choosen on the field... thinking about matches that u wiill have...

rebuild: i think this is the biggest card against several card like rod chalice allartifactcards... it's a very easy way to close the match with brain freeze... and it's never a dead card with cicle ability...

psychatog: the best way to win in a single turn...

frantic search: this is a card that many person doubt me... but imho with deep is GOD, with yaw is GOD, with tolarian is GOD, and u can discard all slepy card to have 2 winning condition !... for me this card is GOD

cephalid coliseum:tha same as frantic.. several times u can flood with this deck.. i can't still understand why.. but u have still hand ion flood.. an these 2 cards resolve to u a lot of big problems.. i chose to play this land instead of library cause the metagame is too fast not to let u have 2 u for drain on second turn... and also u have never 7 card in ur hand... never...

hideous laughter: aggro deck = dead.. and here u don'ìt have probleb to have 2 black mana...

darkblast: welder, confidant, and so on = dead

mistycal: in side with 4 wish is = having 4 tutor... u cant "top deck" ur yaw when u want

ebony charm: it's a little coffin purge and let my shadow atog to win

fact or fiction: in side is very easy totake it with 4 wishes.. it take the slot of skeletal scrying.. cause usually i play ss side and fof main..but there's frantic taking it's place... so... skeletal go away!

misdirection: with 4 wishes every ancestral is mine ..is a very big card on counter war ...

3 annull... is very usefull in every match... the only match u can't use... is giftdeck


and now.. i think u have to ask and answer me

p-s-in a second moment i can explain u my tests... that in this period are very good:P

EDIT:
i forgot the 15th sideboard card: brain freeze

[meadbert]

I thought using Cephalid Colliseum over Libraray of Alexandria is interesting.

About Brain Freeze, you mentioned winning with it, but I don't see it your deck?

Which matchups are good and which matchups are poor?

Have you done any testing versus Stax?  That is usually a bad matchup for Tog.

If you play against much combo then you might want to consider dropping an Intuition or some Wishes to add Merchant Scrolls.

Scroll can always find Intuition later if you need to, but on your first turn you might get a lot of hands that contain

Island, Mox, no Force of Will.

With a Merchant Scroll you can go find a Force of Will to buy time versus combo.

[Darkiller]

mmm... thinking about matches...

matchup:
vs t1t or control deck: i'm feel very strong, cause i have never color scruw, i draw more and more than other, i have my little intuition and when i resolve 1 i gain a real card advantage on my oppo, cunning wishes gimme ful set of choices with drawing cards o counter like misdi or annul.. and if my oppo play akk i'm really happy cause i can avoid him to draw mine with my little tog
in my test i can say i'm really good ...

vs comboes:
i played vs dragon and even if it's a vary bad match up for control deck, i can say that drawing engine is very fast, and with these 5 card from side i can say to play at 50% .. a grat result for me!
vs tps(the most played combo!)
on first match there's no difference in playing dark tog or another t1tdeck eccept for merchant scroll: this card is real good (as u also said i can take fow if i havent on my hand) but i can say that with duress, drain, force of will, eccept for first turn of the opponent where i can save ONLY with a force of will... the match is good enough..
in side i can't gain the possibility of playing red, but i chose 3 annull in order to use them also in these match: u can see the terror in the eyes of ur oppo when he see his lotus countered at only 1 mana, or his necro un first turn from a very little annull

fish or similar:
i think i've really no problem... mana denial is obviously a forgottenn problem, the only problem is meddling mage calling cunning wish.. in that case u have to chose another game plan and protect urself with tog and boune it with chain..expept this.... hideous laughter and dark blast are goooooooods!

artifact deck:
u have to resist some turns.. bounce it all .. and close...
i play 2 tog maindeck and 1 freeze against jester.. and rebuild maindeck more than for close easily with freeze also for this match cause i can't play rnr...
we have in side 3 annull.. very strong...
this is also a match up because of i can't play merchant,.. cause in the first èart of the game i can't tap out in my turn, i need manas for drain or cunning wish.. or intuition ...

i think i've answered also to the other question

[Sean Ryan]

I always find it interesting to see what sees play in different metagames.  Italy seems to be shaped by no proxy tourny's and a heavy presence of combo, which Tog does great against.

The list you proposed seems to be going backward in it's progress rather than being improved. 

Tinker/DSC gives you the possibility of simply winning the game out of nowwhere that Tog cannot.  IMHO, the benefits of Turbo Colossus outway the costs of drawing him in your opening grip.  Tog requires much more set up, leaving you vulnerable to tempo strategies.  This is the major weakness to Tog.  Don't forget that it wasn't Stax that that killed Tog but Fish.  While you are busy drawing cards and setting up Fish is disrupting and beating down.  Decks like CS and giftz are able to combo out much easier than Tog was ever able to win.  Slaver often needs but one activation to win, requiring minimal set up.  Regardless of the actual "win-condition" Drain decks most often win via a large Will.  Tendril's of Agony is a perfect match in this regard.  Add a Rebuild or two, and you've just enabled a Drain deck to go combo.

The Frantic Search is interesting and others have had success with it in the past.  Maybe you should also try Gush in the main.

The 4 Cunning Wish seem very cluncky, and they were always one of my least favorite cards in Tog.  They certainly let yo play the control role much more, but I would generally just rather try and win.

I'm not saying Tog is dead.  In the right metagame, with the right build, and the right pilot it can defiantly succeed.  Anyway, just my thought on the build right now.   

Sean   

[Pave]

I'm surprised that you don't use Vampiric Tutor, even in the sideboard.  You may shirk at the life loss but Psychatog, Black Lotus and Tolarian Academy are all cards worth seeing at crucial points.  I would also include a basic Swamp over the fourth Island (or fourth Underground Sea) in order to more reliably recur Darkblast against decks with 5 strip effects.

[Darkiller]

i0ve tryied mono swamp... and i have also @°#&%ed all the calendar saints cause i hadn't on second turn 2 blue mana for drain.. that's one of the reason why i played cephalid and not library,.,,
i play tog cause in italy every, and let me repeat EVERY deck has at least 4 solution maindeck solution to darksteel colossus!
if u can undestand a little italian i'd like u to read this:
SIRAL WROTE:

"Che goduria vedere la gente impaurita di fare tinker colosso per colpa del viashino heretic.
Quindi l'urban fish sta prendendo piede...vediamo come andra' andando avanti con il tempo"
(http://www.theabyss.biz/forum/viewtopic.php?p=218574#218574)

trying to translate:
"waht happiness! seeing people afraid to cast tineker for dsc cause of a viashino heretic!
so urban fish it's beginning to be real good! waiting for the future evolutions"

and let me say to u that urban is only the last version of fish!!

we have madness with 4 stp maindeck, goblin with welder +Goblin Tinkerer +maze of ith!

and i think that in mirror match tog is even better than dsc or sundering..

i thinkk that 4 cunning wish is the key of this deck... u have an answer to everything .. and it let u have never in hand a dead card...

[Wildthing]

From my point of view your build even having a stronger mana base, has some weak points which make it worse than t1t or hulk:

1) Cunning wish without red is a mediocre card. Hideous Laughter is worse than firestorm and much more mana intensive, you don´t have rack and ruin or shatering pulse and you will miss ReB and maybe fling too if you go on with 2 togs.

2) Your deck doesn´t have a fast way to race aggro. Old tog decks had berserk which make 4-5 turn kills possible, italian togs had fling which is sometimes as good as berserk, gifts and t1t can just tinker (or tendrils) with counter on hand and win easily. You only have two togs without any pumping spell or even merchant scroll for gush. Tinker is specially good in a deck like this with fast access to mystical via cunning wish

3) A drawing engine with intuition, ak and deeps is too slow to compete, merchant and ak have great sisynergynd protects you against early threads so theres no point in not running them.

Appart form that I think frantic search is a win-more card and cephalid coliseum is too situational.

This deck is going to have big problems against workshop/fish decks because of the points discussed here

[Evenpence]

Appart form that I think frantic search is a win-more card and cephalid coliseum is too situational.

Frantic Search is a blue bazaar of baghdad that nets you mana with Tolarian Academy, fixes off-color mox mana, digs two cards down for 0 or more mana, and it fills the graveyard for Tog and monsterous Yawg Wills.

Frantic Search is amazing, and I will continue to endorse this card in nearly anything for quite some time.

[zeus-online]

3) A drawing engine with intuition, ak and deeps is too slow to compete, merchant and ak have great sisynergynd protects you against early threads so theres no point in not running them.

What are you talking about? Thats pretty much the BEST draw engine in the format, only reason that intu/AK dosnt get played more, is because it takes up so much deck-space.

/Zeus

[Wildthing]

3) A drawing engine with intuition, ak and deeps is too slow to compete, merchant and ak have great sisynergynd protects you against early threads so theres no point in not running them.

What are you talking about? Thats pretty much the BEST draw engine in the format, only reason that intu/AK dosnt get played more, is because it takes up so much deck-space.

/Zeus

I do agree that intu/ak is one of the best draw engines in the format but only with at least 3 merchant scrolls. I criticising the engine with ak and deep analysis and no merchant