my deck

[hyppie]

Hey everyone,

I haven't played vintage magic in awhile and am looking to revamp my old deck. It was straight black discard with bridge for creature control, but I want more versatility. Here is my decklist now:

4 duress
4 hymn
4 dark ritual
4 hypnotic specter
3 crucible of worlds
2 thirst for knowledge
1 nether void
1 windfall
1 Fact or Fiction
1 ancestral recall
1 time walk
1 mystical tutor
1 yawgmoth's will
1 demonic tutor
1 imperial seal
1 vampiric tutor
1 mind twist
1 rushing river
1 tinker
1 darksteel colossus
1 damping matrix

5 moxen
1 lotus
1 sol ring

4 Underground River
4 underground seas
4 wasteland
2 swamps
1 island
1 strip mine

sideboard:
3 hydroblasts
3 defense grid
2 the rack
2 phrexian negators
2 damping matrix
2 ensnaring bridge
1 thirst for knowledge

It's pretty simple. Basically, the idea is to discard, bounce or negate your opponents threats while dropping your own. It has a lot of tutors, because I like taking extra turns, abusing my graveyard, dropping ridiculous creatures, etc...The sideboard has some red (aggro included) and control hate...seeing as that's really popular in the environment. It's very rough-around-the-edges, but it can be very aggressive or very controlling. I miss countermagic a little bit (used to run a quartet of mana leaks which are now card drawers). I like crucible/land destruction engine. I like the idea of lots of hand/land destruction and then a yawgmoth's will. Tinker+DSC is very strong too. I used to run 3-4 copies of the rack and cursed scroll each It is very quick. Notice that none of the cards (save for nether void and FoF...and DSC<-never casted) are over 3 mana. It lacks removal (only one rushing river). Combo was my best matchup. Should I add more scrolls/racks and lose the whole land destruction idea?  I'm looking for some general feedback. Again, I haven't played in awhile and I put this together pretty quick. Also, What does everyone think of Word of Command?

cards that didn't make it but have been rotated:
lim dul's vault
lobotomy/eradicate
cursed scroll
unmask
necropotence
hurkyll's recall
mana leak!!!
stifle
volrath's stronghold
maindeck bridge


Ok, I'm wrapping this up. It's late. Later

[netherspirit]

First of all I'd take out the Underground Rivers for fetchlands, and then you could probably cut the Swamps and Island for Watery Graves. Personally I'd cut 1 or 2 Wastelands, but I just don't particularly like that card anyway
 I'm not really sure why you're running Ensnaring Bridge in your sideboard, it seems pretty counter productive unless you've got main deck Racks as a back up kill condition.
 How does Windfall play in there? As far as I can see all it's going to do is give your opponent a fresh hand once you've killed theirs.
 Crucible of Worlds is the only other card I'm not sure about, as far as I can see it's not doing anything really, except save lands you discard, those would be much better replace with TfK or Brainstorm, besides that though I really like this deck.

[gotinput]

It's hard for me to reply to this because it all depends on what you want to do, and what your metagame is like. 

If you insist on playing discard in t1 you must first understand that it won't win you any power in a healthy metagame. 

If you want to play it as a more flexible casual deck then what I would recommend would be quite different. 


#1  No matter what type of environment you are in I must concur with NetherSpirit Fetchlands are a must, along with brainstorm which has excellent synergy with the lands. 

#2  Invest in a set of Dark Confidants...even if they don't make main deck you'll probably need them. 

#3  A popular win cond for black is tendrills of agony...

I had some ideas on the next step I would take it to, but this is your deck evolution.  Enjoy!

When looking to make this more competitive, see TT Confidant, Gifts Ungiven Control, Intuition Tendrils.

general comments below

4 duress - "The 3rd best counterspell!"
4 hymn - not played in most competetive decks  Lets try brainstorm here.
4 dark ritual - mandatory for most decks running black!!!
4 hypnotic specter - not played in most competetive decks
3 crucible of worlds - no synergy with the rest of the deck (strip effects and rushing river aside)
2 thirst for knowledge - jury is still out... 
1 nether void - not played in most competetive decks (used in decks focused on abusing it ie. uncounterable creatures)
1 windfall - not played in most competetive decks (tinker for memory jar might be better?)
1 Fact or Fiction
1 ancestral recall
1 time walk
1 mystical tutor
1 yawgmoth's will
1 demonic tutor
1 imperial seal
1 vampiric tutor
1 mind twist - not played in most competetive decks
1 rushing river - only 1 piece of bounce... Chalice for 3 and you lose the game!
1 tinker
1 darksteel colossus
1 damping matrix - although more narrow, pithing needle is more efficient.

5 moxen
1 lotus
1 sol ring

What margin of gain or loss would Mana Crypt/Vault, or Lotus Petal or LED do for you?

4 Underground River - 2nd NetherSpirit's comments again, but break it up into polluted delta/flooded strand
Fetches are arguably the most important lands.

The rest depends on your final Main Deck

4 underground seas
4 wasteland
2 swamps
1 island
1 strip mine

sideboard:
3 hydroblasts - too narrow for this deck
3 defense grid - maybe
2 the rack - too slow
2 phrexian negators
2 damping matrix - expensive catch all that doesn't shut down your opponents mana (the main purpose of null rod)
2 ensnaring bridge - if you lay a bridge, and they cannot attack then you are just going to fly over for 2 each turn?
1 thirst for knowledge - not in the sideboard...  the SB is not to fix your deck, but to help out different matchups.

[Purple Hat]

1 rushing river - only 1 piece of bounce... Chalice for 3 and you lose the game!

why would anyone play chalice for 3 against anything but uh....dragon with a chalice for 2 already on the table I guess....maybe old tog lists?

4 dark ritual - mandatory for most decks running black!!!

uh....manditory for most decks based on dark ritual you mean?  last I checked CS, Dragon, Gifts, and stax all run black and don't run ritual....in fact the only decks to DO run ritual are fast combo decks which this is clearly not meant to be.

#3  A popular win cond for black is tendrills of agony...

and a popular wincondition for trix is donated illusions of grandure....tendrils decks use tendrils to kill....virtually nothing else does.

Overall discard is pretty risky as most opponents are trying to set up big graveyards so they can either weld in stuff or will stuff back or animate the dragon for the win.

if you're looking to play a 2/2 black beater I'd go with withering wretch as he can be used to negate the draw back of incidentally filling your opponent's yard, but overall I think this whole deck is just obsolete.  If you're looking for a more updated list, though still probably slightly outdated but perhaps that can be worked on, Tog would be somewhat along the lines of your deck.

Hale

[zeus-online]

...Or check out that new fish-like deck that just won a tourney!

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=28747.0

/Zeus

[Purple Hat]

...Or check out that new fish-like deck that just won a tourney!

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=28747.0

/Zeus

DOH!!! good call, I knew I was saying something dumb....lol