Deckbuilding Challenge: A casual Necrodeck

[Nazdakka]

I've always wanted to build a 'classic' Necrodeck - not the broken Trix combo deck, but the Monoblack control deck with lots of Swamps and Drain life-type effects. Trouble is, I'm having some trouble working out how to do it. Do I want creatures? If so, how many? How heavy with the discard? What ratio of spot and mass removal? Do I try and do anything cute?

So, I thought I'd throw the question open to the floor here at TMD. How would you build a deck within the following constraints?

1) The deck must be based around Necropotence and (maybe) similar effects.
2) No straight combo decks. I'm not looking for a NecroTrix deck here.
3) The following cards are banned:
Legacy banned list minus Demonic Consultation and Necropotence
Hymn to Tourach (A little too unfair)
Sinkhole (Too expensive, and pretty unfair)
Grim Tutor (Too expensive)
4) The deck shouldn't be too expensive to build for someone with a respectable collection from ~ Invasion on.

I'll post my initial take on the list a little later.

[parallax]

I think the original Necro decks used pump knights: Knight of Stromgald, Order of the Ebon Hand. They were basically Suicide Black with a ridiculous draw engine. I would include Rituals, Consultations, Hypnotic Specters, Drain Life effects (especially Soul Spike from Coldsnap), with Duress and Unmask for disruption.

[Jacob Orlove]

Free Spell Necro (played by Brian Davis in the T8, Designed by Craig Wescoe)
2 Skittering Skirge

4 Contagion
4 Corrupt
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
3 Demonic Consultation
4 Drain Life
4 Necropotence
2 Nevinyrral's Disk
3 Spinning Darkness
4 Unmask

18 Swamp
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
2 Dystopia
2 Nevinyrral's Disk
2 Perish
3 Persecute
3 Planar Void
3 Powder Keg

I would up Consults to four, add Soul Spike (SO BROKEN), and then you're pretty much set.

[Nazdakka]

Free Spell Necro (played by Brian Davis in the T8, Designed by Craig Wescoe)
2 Skittering Skirge

4 Contagion
4 Corrupt
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
3 Demonic Consultation
4 Drain Life
4 Necropotence
2 Nevinyrral's Disk
3 Spinning Darkness
4 Unmask

18 Swamp
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
2 Dystopia
2 Nevinyrral's Disk
2 Perish
3 Persecute
3 Planar Void
3 Powder Keg

I would up Consults to four, add Soul Spike (SO BROKEN), and then you're pretty much set.

That looks a lot like the list I started with. I cut the creatures and some other stuff for 4 Consume Spirits and replaced the Wastes with Cabal Coffers. Consult actually felt like it wanted to be a ~ 2-of - testing this thing out I've done myself quite a lot of damage with bad Consults. No question it's an amazing tutor, but in a control deck it's a bit of a liability at times.

Soul Spike is amazing as advertised, and the Coffers make my 8 Drain Lifes very impressive. Edict is in in place of Contaigion because I wanted at least one kill spell which doesn't screw my hand, and Contaigion is probably weaker than Spinning Darkness. The 3 Diabolic Tutors are a bit of a luxury - they could quite possibliy become Unmasks.

Anyway, this is what I came up with:

// Lands
    4  Cabal Coffers
    20  Swamp

// Spells
    1  Nevinyrral's Disk
    3  Spinning Darkness
    4  Necropotence
    4  Dark Ritual
    4  Chainer's Edict
    4  Consume Spirit
    4  Drain Life
    2  Demonic Consultation
    3  Diabolic Tutor
    4  Duress
    3  Soul Spike

Edit: Sickening Shoal! Maybe I ought to try that in the Edict slot.

[ChemEng]

Youll never want below 4 Consults in a Necro deck. It gives you 8 Necros. And Necro is that good.

[Jacob Orlove]

Youll never want below 4 Consults in a Necro deck. It gives you 8 Necros. And Necro is that good.

Right, you have enough ways to pitch it once necro is on the table--the real issue is getting your cards going.

[parallax]

Consultation should never cause you any problems. You'd have to remove all eight Drain Lifes before it's bad and that'll rarely happen. I would drop the Diabolic Tutors.

How fast does this deck normally play?

[Nazdakka]

Youll never want below 4 Consults in a Necro deck. It gives you 8 Necros. And Necro is that good.

Right, you have enough ways to pitch it once necro is on the table--the real issue is getting your cards going.

I think I've been using Consults in the wrong way then - I'm pretty aggressive with them: if there's something I want, I just go get it. That's led to several games where I've emptied my library thanks to Consults and Necroing. If I treat them soley as extra copies of Necro, then that problem should go away to some extent. Soul Spike is very, very awesome.

The speed of the deck is middling - it's a bit like Flores' "Kuroda-style" burn deck from last year's standard. You deal with the early threats and then start pointing huge Drains at people from around turn 7. Once that starts happening, the engine kicks off and it's kinda hard to lose. I'm trying -3 Tutor, -1 Disk, +2 Consult, +2 Unmask from the build above.

Any other views of this? Would an aggressive Necrodeck simply look like modern Bw Confidant?

[el bingren]

Yes you're right, an aggressive build would be pointless.  I vote for the full 4 Unmask as I've been beaten by that card plenty of times and it has great synergy with your extra Consults and Necros.  It ensures Necro comes in safely and also guarantees you're Drain has a nice clear path to the face.

[Matt]

Is Tendrils of Agony legal?

[Illissius]

Is Tendrils of Agony legal?

Oh man. I keep randomly thinking how awesome Tendrils would have been in a Necro/Bargain deck (most of the time, replacing Soul Feast in Sabre Bargain, for Urza/Masques era T2), and just now, when it would actually be applicable, I forget.

Taken to its logical extreme:

Free Spell Necro

4 Necropotence
4 Demonic Consultation
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Unmask
4 Contagion
4 Sickening Shoal
4 Spinning Darkness
4 Soul Spike
4 Tendrils of Agony
20 Swamp
SB: 4 Massacre

Its logical extreme may not, however, be the right direction to take it. Dunno. Seeing as you no longer have giant Drains to fire off, I cut two lands for more spells; and since you have exactly one spell in the deck you want to use colorless mana on (Tendrils), I also cut the Wastelands. Not sure if this is correct.

Other cards printed in the interim which deserve a looking at:
Innocent Blood
Barter in Blood
Infest
Mutilate
Vicious Hunger
Cabal Therapy
Last Rites
Haunting Echoes
Chrome Mox
Cabal Ritual
Zombie Infestation
Nantuko Shade
Toshiro Umezawa
Dark Confidant*
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Aether Vial
Umezawa's Jitte
Chalice of the Void
Leyline of the Void
Gerrard's Verdict
Vindicate
Solitary Confinement (!)

* Not so great with "free" spells, but could possibly be useful in Cheap Spell Necro, for the sake of redundancy.

[dandan]

Funeral Charm is a highly underrated card in Necro as it can take out weenies or cause a discard (at Instant speed, which is occasionally an advantage). It is certainly worth considering, especially if Dark Confidant shows up a lot.

[parallax]

I would have suggested Tendrils, but it might go against "2) No straight combo decks."

I think Cabal Ritual should have a place in this deck.

[netherspirit]

Ivory Tower and Demon's Horn are pretty sick with Necro. Substantial amounts of life gain, and lots more cards.

[Harlequin]

I totally agree, it seems like a deck running 4 necros would start:

4 Necro
4 Ivory tower
4 Demonic consulation


When your drawing 3-4 cards a turn your win condition is almost irrelevant.   

[Nazdakka]

I totally agree, it seems like a deck running 4 necros would start:

4 Necro
4 Ivory tower
4 Demonic consulation


When your drawing 3-4 cards a turn your win condition is almost irrelevant.   

They never did, though, back in the day (I think Tower was legal for at least part of Necro's reign). You draw 3-4 cards a turn anyway with Necro, except when your life total is in the critical range. When it is, I think I'd rather be throwing huge burn spells at people than playing a 1 mana artifact. I guess I'm saying that I suspect that Tower only looks good on paper - I'd have to cut either kill spells or burn to fit it in, anyway.

[That0neguy]

I thought tower was restricted back when necro was legal, im not sure if it was ever banned though.

[Harlequin]

If my MTG history serves me correctly, for a short period of time Ivory tower and Necro were both un-restricted.  And necro caused the tower to become restricted.  Necro-tower is a powerful 2 card combo (without really being a combo) and both cards are fairly good on thier own. 

In a multiplayer inviroment Life gain is more powerful than a 1 on 1 game in my oppinion.  I'm not sure how much you would use this deck for casual 1 on 1 or casual multiP.  But The tower should keep you out of that critical life area. 

Also I'm not really suggesting that you cut drain life spells, they would definately be powerful in keeping your life total on the up and up.

[Nazdakka]

If my MTG history serves me correctly, for a short period of time Ivory tower and Necro were both un-restricted.  And necro caused the tower to become restricted.  Necro-tower is a powerful 2 card combo (without really being a combo) and both cards are fairly good on thier own. 

In a multiplayer inviroment Life gain is more powerful than a 1 on 1 game in my oppinion.  I'm not sure how much you would use this deck for casual 1 on 1 or casual multiP.  But The tower should keep you out of that critical life area. 

Also I'm not really suggesting that you cut drain life spells, they would definately be powerful in keeping your life total on the up and up.

Really? Only one of the decks on Germagic has even 1 Tower. I can see the logic, and the cards I would likely cut would be 2 Unmask, 2 Spinning Darkness. I'm made cautious because I hate having too many cards in my engine decks which depend almost entirely on the engine working - as I see it, Tower is pretty unspectacular before Necro hits. The deck already has Soul Spike as a semi-dead card without Necro, I'm not sure I want another. Only one way to find out though

Illissius:

I love the idea of Confinement, even if it does contradict what I said above . Splashing white is not a huge hardship, and Confinement is a real killer with Necro in play.

[Illissius]

Because a Necro deck winning with Test of Endurance is just too hilarious:

4 Demonic Consultation
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Necropotence
4 Solitary Confinement
4 Ivory Tower
4 Ivory Crane Netsuke
4 Death Wish
4 Unmask
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
4 Chrome Mox
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scrubland
1 Underground Sea
4 Swamp
SB: 1 Vindicate
SB: 1 Zur's Weirding
SB: 1 Test of Endurance


As an aside, I recall that some of the cool new Necro tech before Trix emerged was using Exploration to get into giant Corrupt/Drain mode that much quicker; if someone wants to explore that avenue.

[parallax]

Death Wish for Test of Endurance?

Wins on irony alone.

[Hi-Val]

FYI, there's a Flores article on the history of Necro on MTG.com this week.