T1 Sportsmanship & Player Personality

[Whatever Works]

The TMD has been fairly boring recently most likely to everyone witholding there tech & Ideas until after Waterbury. That being said here is a good discussion that can be openly talked about without impacting your Waterbury chances. If your not holding back till Waterbury ends you still can contribute to this conversation.

I have noticed over my 5+ years playing type 1 that as different as every person I have played has been... There are general links to all players that determine a few common "character types" of a type 1 player. These character types have absolutely nothing to do with what deck they play or there play skill, but instead their general mood, attitude, and body language.

Without going into to much detail here are a few of the "character types" I have noticed... I am sure there are more, but I would rather not have this topic turn into a bunch of posts listing different character types 1 might have played that I didn't list, because that would be counterproductive.

1.) The really easy going player who is generally friendly, and usually a big talker to the point where they can cause you to make play errors. The best example is Ben Kowal. Very friendly, very good player, but regardless if its round 1 or the finals he will say a funny comment here and there about someones mom touching there pet poodle... Next second he is talking about eating dead babies as he is resolving a yawgmoth's will.
2.) The quiet extremely tight player. Doesn't talk much or at all. Doesn't really respond to you when you ask them who they are, how they are. They can sometimes be a little intimidating because of the seriousness they appear to play the game with. Generally, not fun people to play verse.

These are examples of character types among players. The first being to the far left of the spectrum and the second being to the far right.

This brings up the question: What kind of player do you like to play against??? The loud player? The friendly player? The silent player? The rather oddball player?

Is there a player who you really like to play against? (please don't choose a player just because you have "competitive games" or because you beat them regularly).

Also, what do you define sportsmanship as in type 1? Fair Play and Courtesy are the biggest 2 factors in my opinion, but there are others.

If type 1 had a sportsmanship award & A favorite opponent award who would it go to???

For sportsmanship I would personally nominate Ray Robilliard because he is extremely friendly, always tries to make the game fun (even the die roll), shakes his opponents hand and offers them good luck before every game, and I have never seen him get angry about losing or show up another player. He is an exemplary example of how magic should be played in my view and trying to copy his love for the game is a goal that all magic players should achieve before winning.

Other people I would like to praise for sportsmanship would be myself (generally though I have had moments where I would probably be ashamed), Ian degraff (but he gets minus points because he drives me crazy by playing his cards upsidedown), and also Andy Probasco, because what would a topic be without Brassy?

[jpmeyer]

The player who knows the rules and plays by them.  This also involves doing things which may not be seen as "courteous" to some, such as accepting an unintentional draw in the last round of the Swiss when neither player will make it unless someone loses.

[Kowal]

Andy Probasco is my choice for most sportsmanlike, and while I do love playing against him, they are not my favorite matches.

Having competitive matches is totally a valid reason to love a pairing with somebody, and though you mentioned not wanting it as a reply above, it's the only way I can really picture answering a question like this.

Eric Dupuis (ELD)

Though he'll admit he's not as tight a player as he used to be, he's still arguably one of the strongest technical players I've had the pleasure of gaming with.  I wish I was a solid enough technical player to claim all our matches have been close, but at least a good number of them have been, and they've all been a pleasure.  My most recent match with Eric was among my top five favorite matches of Magic, and quite possibly my number one tournament match.

Honorable mentions go to Ray Robillard, Steve Houdlette, Kevin Cron, Jacob Orlove, Keith Johnson, Gaagooch, and Lany of Canadian fame (I have no idea how to spell your name Lany, so I'll just leave it at that so I don't butcher it in the attempt)

In all honesty, I also enjoyed my matches with Angry Pheldagrif, but only because I verbally fileted him while I massacred him in-game.  I wish Piemaster had recorded our first match better--  There was arguably more trash talk in that match than in any other match of my career.

[Roxas]

I would also say Andy Probasco wins for the most sportsmanlike. 

As far as players I like playing against the most, I'd have to go with Vroman and Becker; both are very strong players, and playing against either is thoroughly fun and enjoyable.  I've only played against Andy and Ray once each, but those were fun matches as well.

[Pitlord]

I haven't played against, or even met most of the big names in vintage that everyone seems to be mentioning, but a few people I play against a lot that are fun to play with are Eric Becker, Matt Endress, Ryan Fischer, and Matt (can't rememebr his last name). All of these guys are fun to play with because they are able to crack jokes most anytime, but if a match gets really intense they will be quiet and think, and let you do the same. They will all also be a little quieter if they are at a match next to you and you ask them to be.

I think the type of player I am, either serious or funny, depends on who I am playing. I tend to lean more towards being fun, but if my opponent is really serious and quiet, I will tone it down quite a bit. I think that this way it allows everyone to be themselves and therefore give you a better mathc, which is always more fun.

[ill_Dawg]

@ben- I can't believe I didn't make the list.

[The Chosen One]

I have not had a bunch of tournament experience, and I have only played Ray in pre-tournament games, but I assume that he is as coutreous and fun to play against in actual tournament play. I myself treat magic like a game (of course) I introduce myself before each match, shake hands, say good luck, and I try to be comical but not too the point of distraction to my opponent or myself. I hope to run into more members from TMD at upcoming events. Also, not to add a player type to the discussion, but there are several players that really, really have no poker face at all when things are not going their way during the games. I try to reveal as little as possible body language-wise, since magic (like any card game) has a lot to do with what your opponent thinks you are capable of.

Joe

[TopSecret]

     I think it is usually fun to play against both types of players.
     However, if I had to choose which one I would like the most often,
I think the friendly/talkative one is preferred.

     The only real "X" factors for me is whether or not my opponent has:

1) Extreme fits of anger upon losing... AKA; "Going on Tilt".
2) A very malicious and inflated attitude while winning... Or being a jerk.
3) Both.

[Kowal]

@ben- I can't believe I didn't make the list.

You don't play magic.

[Moxlotus]

People that are fun, but not annoying.  It is fun to banter while sideboarding.  It is not fun to listen to my opponent ask me questions while I am in the process of Brainstorming and trying to do mana and storm math.  People that can take a joke are also great to play against.  Stuff like saying "I totally outplayed you on that one" when you just killed them turn 1 w/ force backup.

[Lunar]

I am pretty random in my type of player I like to play against.

I really enjoy playing against fun witty players who chat with me during play, it makes for a nice casual feel even though I know we are both playing for reals. However, at times I really enjoy playing some serious magic against one of those quiet tight players.  I also play as both from time to time depending on my mood and if I want to mess with somebody or not. I definatly notice that as the rounds go on I get to be more quiet and tight if im winning or louder and more jovial if im losing


The only thing I really dislike is the loud and overly tight players, ie rules lawyers that will call judge 10 times a game for the dumbest shit on earth (which generally eventually gets THEM a warning for being annoying) dude if I sneeze wrong then you dont have to call the judge...If it is legit then go ahead...but if you are trying to win on silly rules alone and not your cards and skill then please go play elsewhere, heh.

Death to rules lawyers.

[49 Cents]

I'm a pretty loud player myself, although I 'adjust'. If my opponent is very quit or annoyed with all my talking, I'll shut up. I really like to play against people that can take a joke, or are just as loud, because that really makes games fun. And yeah, like about every body else I can't stand rule lawyers. I know the rules pretty well, so they can get it just as hard if they please. I once played a game against the German Markus Margera at last years Dutch Champs, and he rule lawyered me so bad I snapped and threw away the game. Every thing I did he triple-checked (I was playing Staxx), like triggers on the Stack, etc etc. He didn't allow a takeback (sure, I don't mind, but the way he did it..) But when he Fetched out a wrong land he wanted to Fetch out another, uhm..

No, that's not my kind of playstyle.

Death to rules lawyers.

Agreed. We play this game for fun, people. I bet all rulelawyers also like to place their Penis in exhaustpipes..

Some Dutchies I really like to play against are Koen v/d Hulst, because our matches are always really close and trashtalking ftw, and Arthur Tindemans (again, trashtalking ftw). There are tons more, actually. Almost every (Vintage) Dutchie is great to play against, as I think about it..

[SonataOfTheCathedral]

Since I used to be on the pro tour and had to be very malicious to get on it. I still kind of carry it over to this format, I will pile shuffle your deck, ask you the cards in hand every turn, ask awkward questions and more.

I liked playing Travis Laplante. I will lay back with him, because he is hysterical.

[Whatever Works]

Since I used to be on the pro tour and had to be very malicious to get on it. I still kind of carry it over to this format, I will pile shuffle your deck, ask you the cards in hand every turn, ask awkward questions and more.

I liked playing Travis Laplante. I will lay back with him, because he is hysterical.

He also refuses to shake your hand when he loses in most of my experiences. Also, I have to agree about your view of the pro tour but that is generally a very cut-throat format.

[rvs]

Eric Dupuis (ELD)

Though he'll admit he's not as tight a player as he used to be, he's still arguably one of the strongest technical players I've had the pleasure of gaming with.  I wish I was a solid enough technical player to claim all our matches have been close, but at least a good number of them have been, and they've all been a pleasure.  My most recent match with Eric was among my top five favorite matches of Magic, and quite possibly my number one tournament match.

True. Another very strong technical player is Dicemanx. He is probably the strongest I've ever played with/against.

[Mr. Nightmare]

In my limited experience playing against opponents who you all would recognize, I've enjoyed my matches versus Dicemanx, Lany Chabot-Laroche (I hope that's right) and Travis LaPlante.  Paul Mastriano was fun playing casual with.  Peter was one of the most polite and tight players I've ever faced, and Lany was extremely polite as well, especially since he brought pretzels.  Travis is always funny, he really enjoys playing every card.

As for not liking, I'm not impressed with people who get frustrated easily (although I occasionally suffer this as well) and gloaters. 

Someone I can see people getting frustrated with is Menendian, he's the most obnoxious player I've ever played against, but I thought it was hilarious when I played him.  He never shut up, it was great.  Every card sent him off on this huge tangent about how many things he could do, I was cracking up.

[Shock Wave]

Someone I can see people getting frustrated with is Menendian, he's the most obnoxious player I've ever played against, but I thought it was hilarious when I played him.  He never shut up, it was great.  Every card sent him off on this huge tangent about how many things he could do, I was cracking up.

Yup, that's definitely Steve. lol. I've played against a lot of good players from TMD, although most of them I don't remember. Off the top of my head, I remember Kevin Cron being very strong technically. Peter is my teammate so the novelty of his technical prowess wore off a long time ago. The dutchies are all pretty solid too. As far as personalities go, I don't recall ever playing against someone I didn't care for, at least not in this format. All my distasteful experiences have some from playing in Limited or T2 events, where in my experiences, players tend to go out of their way to be assholes, in order to "rattle" you and "get an edge". That's why I tend to stay away from those formats.

[M.Solymossy]

Unless you're playing me, Ryan.

[EnialisLiadon]

My opponent will usually determine how I conduct myself in a match--if they are loose and willing to swing jokes and sarcasm, then I will do the same.  Likewise, if my opponent approaches the match in a business-like manner, then I will similarly play quietly and emotionless.

I was playing against a guy playing slaver in chicago, and he was manascrewed game 1--his only mana sources being Mox emerald and Pearl.  He said, "God, all I can cast is a damn Watchwolf."  I inquired, "Do you run Watchwolf?"  "Well I can't compromise secret tech, but I need it to shore up aggro matches.  U/W fish can't handle creatures bigger than 2/2."  This light-hearted banter continued through the entire match, and it was fun to play.  Conversely, my first match-up that day, (another slaver player) didn't say much but was curteous and respectful.  So that's how I acted.  It might not have been the time of my life, but it was still a great match.

However, no matter if the air was jovial or serious and no matter the outcome, I always offer my name at the beginning and shake my opponent's hand before and after the match. 

[Whatever Works]

@ Enialisliadon

I really liked your responce because it is similar to how I act during my matches (often based off the opponent), and I agree with sportmanship regardless of the outcome which you expressed in your last line.

I really should of mentioned ELD on my innitial list, because he is an extremely good player who is technically sound, polite, and pleasant. I have trouble seeing how people could mention names such as AngryPheldegriff on this list due to the attraction of his trashtalking. This I guess could be considered fun, but watching from a 3rd persons view on some of his games where he belittles his opponents b/c of his turn 1 oath + FoW.

Things that I also dislike to see that I find way to prevelent are:
-Playing slow long games intentially. Its perfectly legal. Smennen used to do this all the time with gifts.dec and would win with 2, 3, even 4 FoW in hand game 1 extending the first game at a reasonable play speed (this is different from slow play). Is this legal? yes. Is it frowned upon? Yes. Is it the reason he is one of the most successful gifts players in type 1 history? Yes.
-Riffle shuffling w/o asking. In type 2 this is ok. In type 1 this is keying your car.
-Refusing to shake hand before or after match. To me this is the BIGGEST insult a type 1 player can do, and is the equivilant to spitting in your face outside of real life. If you win or lose you got to man up and shake your opponents hand no matter how much of an asshole they might have been, because if you dont your putting yourself on their level. Forgetting happens, but refusing 1 is a different story.
-I will make a new thread on this 1 in a few days because this 1 deserves it topic. "Rule Nazi's" as they are often reffered, or players who abuse rules to win games. There is a VERY fine line between being one of these, and being a player who wont let a player take back a mistake. If someone forgets to pay the upkeep on a Masticore or an Energy Flux and you dont let them take it back, because it would cost you the game (or even if it wouldnt!) thats FAIR and reasonable. However, Dragon players (no names in particular not even Dicemanx who I believe is VERY FAIR and a very nice guy) tend to abuse the dragon stack. Its an extremely confusing stack especially to the player who hasnt spent a long time playing type 1. Tricking players, making players perfectly word statements, and in general playing AGAINST a players INTENT is generally wrong. What other game situation allows players to know exactly how to make a game altering play, but have it be based completly 100% on your ability to stack an StP or dissenchant w/proper english.

At a rel 3 event a player should have a general understanding, and should know this because rel 3 = expert level magic player. However, I have seen alot of deception with dragon and tricking players into misspeaking. I find this to be unsportsmanlike if a player is trying to catch an opponent in an unintenional wrong.

Players deserve game losses etc. if they draw exta cards or make unreversable game states, but this is different from the rule lawyer situations that I am sure everyone has experienced at 1 point or another. Again, dont focus to much on rule lawyers, it should be its own thread post waterbury.

Kyle L.

[Komatteru]

I always enjoyed playing against Vroman, myself.  I do like to mess around a lot during games (reference RThomas's post), but I actually am capable of playing the focused game as well.  I always thought that Vroman and I played some really good matches (usually close), and for about six tournaments in a row, either he or I won the thing (so the winner of our match went on to win the whole thing--SCG Chicago was a great example of that).  Our matches were all business, and I always thought they were honorable contests.  He or I would forget something occasionally (Uba Mask, etc.), and it was never a huge deal.  We just fixed it and moved on.  Neither of us would make a fuss and try to win a game on rules lawyering.

Although they always ended badly for me, I also really like playing against Eric Becker.  Grated, Stax vs. decks that beat Stax (Eric) were rough matchups for me, but they were always pretty exciting, as it was often really hard to tell who was actually going to win.

I could make a big list, but those two rank at the top of my list.

I always tried to be an honorable and fun opponent.  I hope there's no one who played against me who afterwards thought that it was a bad experience.

[vroman]

Im surprised I got mentioned in this thread. I deliberately try to be as uncommunicative as possible in tournament play. bluffing and tells are important in magic.
I try to respect all my opponents, and have only faced a handful of jerks in all the tournaments Ive played.

[BuckNutty]

TMD open was my very first tourny ever, made it to the fifth round on my control slaver build. I must say that i had an AWESOME time. My first match was rough but i thoroughly enjoyed getting my ass handed to me by some pro tour player, who was also rocking control slaver. Everyone i played against was friendly, i made some awesome trades IMO (walked out of there with 3 italian drains (2 signed), a LoA, the last FoW I needed (signed in silver)and other little random cards i wanted/needed). It was a fantastic event that has lit a fire under my ass to get back into playing alot more.

Fav. players to go up against...the friendly type. Although i seemed uptight and newbesque in my first matchup, i was just plain nervous. First match, first tourny (and it was a big one), pro tour player(supposedly), mirror match, hangover, didn't know anyone, etc....He made me alot more relaxed and wasn't a douche when i meesed up (a ton of times). I think the community would thrive alot better if it were all players like him. My cousin ran into a certain someone there who just snubbed him off like he was godly since he had power. Those players suck.

I never had to call a judge, the players i was up against were very serious about the match, but approached it with enough casualness to keep it fun.

All in all, thank you everyone for this tourny. The vendors, the players, the hotel, the organizer, even the pizza delivery dudes :p

sorry for the rant, just excited about the game again.

 

[seer]

Im surprised I got mentioned in this thread. I deliberately try to be as uncommunicative as possible in tournament play. bluffing and tells are important in magic.
I try to respect all my opponents, and have only faced a handful of jerks in all the tournaments Ive played.

I played against Vroman too -- at gencon last year. I found him to be of the "uncommunative" style. I wouldn't call this kind of person someone who is "bad" to play against. I rather enjoyed it. Also, he had opportunities to try for a game loss (if I drew with uba mask in play) but he would stop me before I drew the card to make sure we didn't get into a sticky situation.

It was a well fought match which he emerged victorious.

[EnialisLiadon]

hangover,

And I thought it was bad when people didn't get a lot of sleep before a tournament...

[dogleg969]

I think my toughest matches have come against Matt Morrison, who is a solid player all around no matter what deck he is playing.  Like myself, he is a quiet, focused player who says very little during a match.  Most people I have played against do not have much to talk about outside of gameplay.  I would include Jeff Rieck and Willie Milton in this mold as well.  The player who has talked the most in my matches with him is probably Doug Linn, or Justin Droba.  Both enjoyed holding a discussion and talking about topics outside of the game. 

I enjoy quiet, focused players because I do not like to talk much if at all during a match.  I don't take very well to joking and trashtalking during a match.  If I get soundly beaten in a match, I probably won't shake your hand.  I'm not a rules-lawyer, but I will not let you get away with forgetting to do something more than one or two times.  I will not belittle you unless you belittle me first.  I will occasionally loosen up, but you will often find me quiet and focused.

Thanks Ryan!  I play pretty much the same way you do, which is all business once I present the deck.  I can joke around with people all the way up through the die roll, then as 13nova was saying this weekend, I "become a card playing statue".  I agree with Vroman also about not communicating so much because of tells, etc.

Come to think of it I love my matches vs Vroman, because it's just two serious Stax players, furrowed brows and all, grinding away at each other.  He usually gets the better of me, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the silent, methodic, game play.

[M.Solymossy]

I always enjoyed playing against Vroman, myself.  I do like to mess around a lot during games (reference RThomas's post), but I actually am capable of playing the focused game as well.  I always thought that Vroman and I played some really good matches (usually close), and for about six tournaments in a row, either he or I won the thing (so the winner of our match went on to win the whole thing--SCG Chicago was a great example of that).  Our matches were all business, and I always thought they were honorable contests.  He or I would forget something occasionally (Uba Mask, etc.), and it was never a huge deal.  We just fixed it and moved on.  Neither of us would make a fuss and try to win a game on rules lawyering.

Although they always ended badly for me, I also really like playing against Eric Becker.  Grated, Stax vs. decks that beat Stax (Eric) were rough matchups for me, but they were always pretty exciting, as it was often really hard to tell who was actually going to win.

I could make a big list, but those two rank at the top of my list.

I always tried to be an honorable and fun opponent.  I hope there's no one who played against me who afterwards thought that it was a bad experience.

DAMNED HURKYLS RECALL!!! 

[forests failed you]

I really enjoy playing tournament matches against Samite Healer.  He's a really good player, and he's really fun to play against.  Also, I always enjoy seeing what new pimp versions of cards he has acquired for his decks.

I also really like playing against Kevin Cron and I also really enjoyed playing against Ryan Treppier in the top eight at Rochester last year.  That match was a complete hoot.