tyrant's demands

[technogeek5000]

tyrant's demands
 
sorcery
you lose 3 life
cascade: gain control of target land (you don't lose control of it after the end of your turn).

This is a new design space for the cascade ability. Instead of having the card do something for you then having to pay a cost to get it again, the card hurts you and the more you cascade it it helps you. just my thoughts. I'm not sure if this card is over powered or not. i don't think it is because just to gain 1 land you have to pay 6 then 2 for 9 life etc... Which i think might be a little under powered. tell me if the card needs tweaking.


Current wording:

tyrant's demands
 
sorcery
you lose 3 life
cascade: 0
whenever you cascade this card gain control of target land (you don't lose control of it after the end of your turn).

[asi]

It's already too good as a one-of effect; Annex is an Enchantment and costs double-U, and still gets played without cascade. Also, if I understood it correctly, this + Blood Funnel (or a similar effect) will get every land of your opponent for no cost of life.

edit: suggestion: maybe attach a small mana cost (1 or B) to the cascade ability, or to the card itself.

[Matt]

It's already too good as a one-of effect; Annex is an Enchantment and costs double-U, and still gets played without cascade. Also, if I understood it correctly, this + Blood Funnel (or a similar effect) will get every land of your opponent for no cost of life.

edit: suggestion: maybe attach a small mana cost (1 or B) to the cascade ability, or to the card itself.

I don't think you understand how cascade works. To get even one land you have to pay 6 life. This does nothing but hurt you if you don't cascade it at least once.

I think I would be happier if this was a gold card (BR or UB) and lowered to 2 life.

[asi]

I don't think you understand how cascade works. To get even one land you have to pay 6 life. This does nothing but hurt you if you don't cascade it at least once.

I think I would be happier if this was a gold card (BR or UB) and lowered to 2 life.

I understood the mechanic, but I misread the card (thought it was the original effect). That said, how does it interact with Blood Funnel or Chalice set at 4?

[Matt]

First off, I doubt anyone really cares about comboing with an eight mana spell (chalice at four). Also, Chalice will counter only the original spell, you'll still lose 3 life for every copy you make. So instead of 3(X+1) life you lose 3X life. Not that great a savgings.

And as for Blood Funnel...well it's the same thing. You get BF into play. Now you spend 1B and 3*X life to gain control of X lands...? And you're stuck with a Blood Funnel? That's not that good.

Although Blood Funnel IS kind of interesting wiith cascade cards. But as long as we don't make anything like "whenever you cascade a spell, put a creature token into play" there's nothing degenerate.

[asi]

 But as long as we don't make anything like "whenever you cascade a spell, put a creature token into play" there's nothing degenerate.

That would've been my next card . Thanks for the clarification. In that case, I agree to it being underpowered. It could be 1BB, or multicoloured, as suggested. It is VERY suicidal, but the ability to steal lands (which is so much better than destroying lands should lead to a 3 or 4 mana cost, because for 2 mana, it could really destroy games in T2 and Extended.)

[Matt]

I think its at just the right power level. In fact it may be too good! Turn three stone rain, turn four this+cascade twice and you basically win the game for 9 life. If they don't have anything on the board, it's over.

[technogeek5000]

hmm there seems to be alot of conflicting thoughts, im still not sure if or how it should be changed

[parallax]

I think its at just the right power level. In fact it may be too good! Turn three stone rain, turn four this+cascade twice and you basically win the game for 9 life. If they don't have anything on the board, it's over.

You mean turn two Stone Rain, turn three this. Birds of Paradise, Llanawar Elves, etc.

Stealing all your opponents lands for the same cost as Annex is pretty good. The life loss is pretty severe, though. It's hard to tell if this is fair or not, but it seems pretty strong.

[technogeek5000]

Stealing all your opponents lands for the same cost as Annex is pretty good. The life loss is pretty severe, though. It's hard to tell if this is fair or not, but it seems pretty strong.

Heck it would give sui decks something to work with.

[technogeek5000]

ok this card looks ready, im calling the 24 hour clock. at 6:30 tommorow i will submit this

[The Atog Lord]

Is paying the "Cascade cost" considered paying a "cost"? If so, then the cost cannot involve targetting, since costs do not use the stack and therefore cannot target.

[Anusien]

Is paying the "Cascade cost" considered paying a "cost"? If so, then the cost cannot involve targetting, since costs do not use the stack and therefore cannot target.

Yes, good call.  I can't think of a way to word it, although to make it slightly worse it may be worth it for them to choose and give you a land.  At any rate, making the cost the real ability is pretty awful, since it makes it uncounterable, which is huge frowns.  It may also require a small mana payment (B or 2) to cascade since Matt demonstrated how nuts it is.  Even without T2 Stone Rain, turn 3 steal all your lands, turn 4 SSS is sort of unfair.

[Godder]

Cascade is an activated ability of the card that can only be played while the card is on the stack. Playing the Cascade ability puts an additional copy of the spell on the stack for each activation. Targetting isn't possible as a cost, but it can be part of the effect by using the Cycling wording from Onslaught e.g. when you Cascade ~this~, you may <do stuff>.

On a more practical note, this ability is Blue if it's permanent or Red if it's till EOT or similar.

[technogeek5000]

i worded it by:
cascade: 0
whenever you cascade this card gain control of target land (you dont lose control of it at the end of your turn).

i hope that cleared everything up because i just submitted it.

[parallax]

What's wrong with "Gain control of target land. Lose 3 life. Cascade "?

[Anusien]

What's wrong with "Gain control of target land. Lose 3 life. Cascade "?

I agree.  If you want the extra Bolt, you can say, "When you play this, if you played it from your hand, lose 3 life.", but that seems kinda kludgy.

Edit: With a life payment, this may reasonably be black.