gorilla shaman/tinker, memory jar

[The Chosen One]

If it is my opponents turn, he has no moxen in play(or any other artifacts). He plays mox emerald, i target it with shaman. Can he tinker in response? I got into an arguement on MWS about this.

Also, if I jar multiple times as the controller of jar i get to choose which hand both players get to keep right? This came up against the same person on MWS

Thanks

[Tha Gunslinga]

You can't target it with the Shaman; you don't have priority.

[Apollyon]

The short answer: If you Shaman it, he can't respond by playing Tinker, as Tinker is a sorcery.

The long answer: He plays the Mox. He passes priority, you pass priority to let it resolve. He has priority. If he doesn't play Tinker, you can Shaman it and he can't respond by playing Tinker. If he does play Tinker, he gets priority, when he passes it to you, the Mox is already dead, so you can't Shaman it.

[Matt]

Also, if I jar multiple times as the controller of jar i get to choose which hand both players get to keep right? This came up against the same person on MWS

Effectively yes. Multiple Jars set up multiple delayed triggered abilities, which all trigger on the same event (you move to the end step). And as long as you control all the abilities, you choose what order they go on the stack. Each ability keeps track of the cards it removed, so you can choose to stack them such that you get any of the hands back.

HOWEVER, I'm pretty sure you DON'T get to look at the face-down hands, so this is something you'll have to keep track of in your head. You might want to check on this.

[LotusHead]

Also, if I jar multiple times as the controller of jar i get to choose which hand both players get to keep right? This came up against the same person on MWS

Effectively yes. Multiple Jars set up multiple delayed triggered abilities, which all trigger on the same event (you move to the end step). And as long as you control all the abilities, you choose what order they go on the stack. Each ability keeps track of the cards it removed, so you can choose to stack them such that you get any of the hands back.

HOWEVER, I'm pretty sure you DON'T get to look at the face-down hands, so this is something you'll have to keep track of in your head. You might want to check on this.

I was told by someone I trust (WEBSTER) that Multiple Jar hands involve many triggers, but ther resulting uh...result is that your original hand is what ends up in your hand. (I won the match, if I remmber correctly, as I was going Mad Broken), but still.

I have not been completely satisfied by any anwer.

Assume Jar Player has 2 or more welders in play, plenty of targets, and opponent is helpless under Trinisphere/Sphere of Resicstance/Chalice set at multiple vailues and it is Turn 3 of extra turns.

[Jacob Orlove]

All of the Jar triggers trigger at the same time, so if just one player's Jar is involved, that player stacks the order of the triggers. Each one basically makes you discard whatever cards are in your hand and get back "hand X", where X is whichever trigger you're talking about. A quick example:

Initial hand is 4 cards.
Jar into 7, nothing useful.
Jar again, play 2 cards, leaving 5.
Jar again, pitch new hand to a pair of Bazaars.

Now you have 0 cards in hand, three separate face-down piles, and three jar triggers. While this has been happening, we'll assume that you AND your opponent have been keeping very careful track of which of his 7-card hands corresponds to which Jar trigger (if you let him lose track, you're both responsible).

So, you have three triggers to stack. Let's say you want to keep that third set, the five cards. In this case, you would let the first two (older) jar triggers resolve first (stack last), getting back your initial 4 and original 7 in either order, and discarding whichever you got first. Then you resolve the 3rd jar trigger, discarding whatever you're holding, and getting those 5 cards back.

[LotusHead]

Thanks. I THOUGHT so.

The case in hand happened when I got Duressed turn 2 or 3 and I had lots of mana and a resolved Welder on the field and the only duress targets in my hand were Jar and MindSlaver (probably the worst Duress Ever) so it was a choice of bad or worse for my opponent.

The resulting dialoge of optimizing Jar hands happened only becasue my opponent didn't conceed after I put 4-5 (Chalice/Sphere, etc) permanents into play and activated Jar again.

[Toad]

HOWEVER, I'm pretty sure you DON'T get to look at the face-down hands, so this is something you'll have to keep track of in your head. You might want to check on this.

Correct.

[freakish777]

Don't keep track in your head.  Simply bring some dice with you or some paper and put the hands under the die/paper with a number on it.  That way you can declare "At EOT we're going back to hand 3."

Assuming there are multiple Jars from different players, the players would have to go back to a hand previous to the active players Jar activation, correct?

[Cross]

post jar triggers, what happens to players' original hands?

If you get to chose which hand to keep what happens to these original hands?

[freakish777]

They are discarded.

Jar activation, you RFG 4 cards face down as hand 1.
Weld, Jar activation, you RFG 7 cards face down as hand 2.

At eot, essentially, you discard your 3rd hand (from the second Jar activation) and declare "We're going back to hand 1 first, discard our hands, and then back to hand 2."

[Anusien]

It's also relevant to go through which hands get discarded when for effects like Madness, Goblin Welder and whatnot; since both players can play effects as each hand goes back.

[wethepeople]

i had this idea when i played this deck where i would Weld Jar back and forth, each time i drew a new hand, each time i would get another untap effect (for example, twiddle) then weld out another artifact, and back in Jar, draw a new hand, repeat. when i got burning wish i would cast it, weld again for a new hand, twiddle again (its an instant), keep on drawing until i run out of artifacts then finally allow wish to resolve, then drop a fat tendrils for about 50. the problem was when i failed to get wish/tendrils i would be forced to go back to one of my past hands, so i never was sure what to do. i may play this deck again now that i know how it works. sweet!

[The Chosen One]

It is correct that if I trigger jar at my opponents EOT, the discard effect will not happen until the end of my turn?

[Dante]

It is correct that if I trigger jar at my opponents EOT, the discard effect will not happen until the end of my turn?

Please post the Oracle text for the card when you ask questions like this.

[parallax]

It is correct that if I trigger jar at my opponents EOT, the discard effect will not happen until the end of my turn?

Yes. That's true.