The blue storm

[chrissss]

The blue storm


Instant
Target spell on stack gains ''storm'' until the end of turn.

''again, again''

Is this too powerfull? Should I up the mana more?
It can be powerfull I think, but I am not sure about the CC.

I liked the idea, because it would give new ways of using storm with cards that bring new decks, which would be nice.


Current Wording

Ancestral Wisdom

Sorcery
The next instant or sorcery spell you play this turn has Storm (When you play that spell, copy it for each spell played before it this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.)
Sometimes the calm before the storm can take generations.

[Polynomial P]

I dont think this works. Storm triggers when the card is played, not when it resolves.

I think you need to do something like, next spell you play has storm. You might want to make it instants and sorceries only too. Alternatively, you could have it be: Copy target spell on the stack for each spell that has been played this turn.

[Mr. Nightmare]

I choose to give Ancestral Recall storm until end of turn.
I choose to give Time Walk storm until end of turn.
I choose to give Wheel of Fortune storm until end of turn.
I choose to give Duress storm until end of turn.
I choose to give Dark Ritual storm until end of turn.
I choose to give Yawgmoth's Will storm until end of turn (good luck countering it!).
I choose to give Burning Wish storm until end of turn.

This card has "Oh Noes" written all over it's busted-ass forehead.  There are waaaaay too many spells that simply do not need to have Storm.

[Anusien]

Wouldn't this just be
"Fork, Storm"?

[netherspirit]

I dont think this works. Storm triggers when the card is played, not when it resolves.

That's true. How about if you gave the next spell you play storm?

[parallax]

Wouldn't this just be
"Fork, Storm"?

This is the best wording.

Copy target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.
Storm (When you play this spell, copy it for each spell played before it this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.)

I don't know if this is busted. Yes, there are spells that just shouldn't have storm, but I don't see and a card to make Yawg Win uncounterable as being all that good a deal. Overmaster isn't exactly seeing a lot of play. (Granted, this is an uncounterable Overmaster. Whoop-de-do.) This card is pretty comparable to Mind's Desire. Only you have to have a card to copy already in hand, and you never fizzle off it. Six mana to win the game in storm combo isn't that much of a threat, considering Bargain and Desire already do that, and this card is more situational. It only does anything if you can hit six mana and still have a good card left in hand.

However, given Mind's Desire, why make this card? This is far less interesting than Desire.

[Polynomial P]

Given the Fork, Storm wording: What would happen if there is one spell on the stack and it gets countered in response to the trigger? Would the copies then copy the initial Fork spell in an infinite loop?

[parallax]

Given the Fork, Storm wording: What would happen if there is one spell on the stack and it gets countered in response to the trigger? Would the copies then copy the initial Fork spell in an infinite loop?

The whole spell would fizzle. You can choose to copy other Forks as long as you want, but eventually you have to choose not to change the target of the copies and allow them to be countered on resolution. Anything else would be stalling. This has been covered before on The Source somewhere with multple Twincasts after the original spell has been countered. That further makes this spell fair, as it would be stopped by a single counterspell.

[chrissss]

How about giving it suspend X ? or something?

This would make it a lot worse, although it could be a combo with really strong cards.

[parallax]

Suspend would also be a rules snafu. There won't be any spells on the stack to copy when the suspend trigger resolves. You can't suspend the copies either as they would cease to exist when removed from the game.

[Shmn]

I'm thinking Insist and Overmaster. Obviously the cost has to be significantly higher since Storm breaks effects, but the wording could stay:

Ancestral Wisdom

Sorcery
The next instant or sorcery spell you play this turn has Storm (When you play that spell, copy it for each spell played before it this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.)
Sometimes the calm before the storm can take generations.

[chrissss]

I guess this wording is also a possibility.

still, I think it would be dangerous combo material.

mox, dark ritual, time storm, time walk

this is easily doable, so lets not create broken cards.

close please.

[Shmn]

I guess this wording is also a possibility.

still, I think it would be dangerous combo material.

mox, dark ritual, time storm, time walk

this is easily doable, so lets not create broken cards.

close please.

I don't think it breaks that easily. At least with a mana cost of 6 converted, including two colored. Unlike for example Mind's Desire, this card does nothing by itself. You'll need the mana to actually cast the spell you want to break. I also made it sorcery so that it would not be broken in Solidarity. Also, you'll need at least a land, lotus, ritual to play this first turn plus the mana for the actual spell.

Considering you can win off Tendrils with a storm count of 10 and 4 mana which can be paid with rituals, a card requiring mana more difficult to get, costing more and requiring another card to function hardly seems that broken, really. Even if you intend to win off something as simple as Lightning Bolt, you will need 5 prior spells and a total of 7 mana, including two blue and one red - and, of course, two cards.

[chrissss]

ok, maybe this shouldnt close.

[Nazdakka]

I guess this wording is also a possibility.

still, I think it would be dangerous combo material.

mox, dark ritual, time storm, time walk

this is easily doable, so lets not create broken cards.

close please.

I don't think it breaks that easily. At least with a mana cost of 6 converted, including two colored. Unlike for example Mind's Desire, this card does nothing by itself. You'll need the mana to actually cast the spell you want to break. I also made it sorcery so that it would not be broken in Solidarity. Also, you'll need at least a land, lotus, ritual to play this first turn plus the mana for the actual spell.

Considering you can win off Tendrils with a storm count of 10 and 4 mana which can be paid with rituals, a card requiring mana more difficult to get, costing more and requiring another card to function hardly seems that broken, really. Even if you intend to win off something as simple as Lightning Bolt, you will need 5 prior spells and a total of 7 mana, including two blue and one red - and, of course, two cards.

IMO Solidarity wouldn't use this even if it was an instant. If I have 8 mana and Reset in hand, I've probably won the game without the need for a huge, spashy effect. Ditto if I have 11 mana and Meditate in hand (need 2 more to cast Reset afterwards). I think this card is generating a lot more fear than it needs to - so it's broken with Ancestral Recall? Ancestral is stupid broken anyway. Ditto Time Walk. This requires quite a lot of effort to do anything really spectacular, especially in non-Eternal formats.

[parallax]

@everyone: This card is not broken. Six mana lets you win the game in Vintage. It's a rule. I think this card is uninteresting compared to Mind's Desire.

[Anusien]

What about in T2?  Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Char, This, Incinerate is a not neglible amount of damage.

[parallax]

What about in T2?  Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Char, This, Incinerate is a not neglible amount of damage.

It's also not a neglible amount of mana. for 19 damage and 5 cards seems bad. In particular, it's strictly worse than Izzet Guildmage, Lava Spike, Desperate Ritual.

[chrissss]

yeah, I have been thinking, and the CC of 6 is good. It can be broken with certain spells, but your going to need a hell lot of mana to use it, and like someone said before, a 4 mana tendrils can win you a game, this card does nothing on its own. AR and time walk are broken anyways, and if they are in combo, they are great cards. Isochron scepter and AR is really broken, but how many people play it?

anyway, I like the card as it is now.

[Harlequin]

I don't know if anyone noticed that this card has amazing interaction with itself?  Lets forget for a moment about the mana cost.

Spell count 3: Play Blue Storm, Play 2nd Blue Storm (5th spell).  That storms 4 times... you get 5 copies of "The next spell you play has storm"  Now you play Ancestral recall that reads:

Draw 3 cards.
Storm
Storm
Storm
Storm
Storm

you end up resolving 26 copies of AR. 
I'm not saying thats uber broken because cost is definately a factor, but just throwing out that as an interesting sidenote.

[Shmn]

I don't know if anyone noticed that this card has amazing interaction with itself?  Lets forget for a moment about the mana cost.

Spell count 3: Play Blue Storm, Play 2nd Blue Storm (5th spell).  That storms 4 times... you get 5 copies of "The next spell you play has storm"  Now you play Ancestral recall that reads:

Draw 3 cards.
Storm
Storm
Storm
Storm
Storm

you end up resolving 26 copies of AR. 
I'm not saying thats uber broken because cost is definately a factor, but just throwing out that as an interesting sidenote.

Is it even possible for a card to get the same ability multiple times? Obviously this interaction with the card itself could be avoided by wording it to "the next instant spell", excluding sorceries and thus itself. However, resolving two of these is not an easy feat, and with that amount of mana there is a lot else game winning available (like Urza's Rage Forked if that floats one's boat).

[Nazdakka]

I don't know if anyone noticed that this card has amazing interaction with itself?  Lets forget for a moment about the mana cost.

Spell count 3: Play Blue Storm, Play 2nd Blue Storm (5th spell).  That storms 4 times... you get 5 copies of "The next spell you play has storm"  Now you play Ancestral recall that reads:

Draw 3 cards.
Storm
Storm
Storm
Storm
Storm

you end up resolving 26 copies of AR. 
I'm not saying thats uber broken because cost is definately a factor, but just throwing out that as an interesting sidenote.

I think that that point makes the card so cool that we now have to print it. The possibilty of that sort of play would make a Timmy/Johnny wet himself with excitement

[chrissss]

It would be nice with time spiral also. 6 times a new hand, and every time lands untapping. would be nice if you have some burn in your deck.

24H

[Harlequin]

Is it even possible for a card to get the same ability multiple times? Obviously this interaction with the card itself could be avoided by wording it to "the next instant spell", excluding sorceries and thus itself. However, resolving two of these is not an easy feat, and with that amount of mana there is a lot else game winning available (like Urza's Rage Forked if that floats one's boat).

When I was reading through the comp rules on Storm I remember reading a rule that said "Multiple instances of storm on a spell stack" (or what ever they use to word "not redundant").  And I remember thinking to myself "how in the world would you get a spell with "Storm, Storm ... they would have to make a spell that gave another spell storm... WOW if you cast it on itself that would be CRAZY!"  I don't have access to the comp rules here at work, but I'm sure someone can site it.

as for the cost, yeah I totally agree.  I'm not objecting to the card because you can chain them together because as you pointed out Forked Urza's rage is probably better :p

[parallax]

All abilities "stack" unless they are actually redundant. If you give flying to a creature with flying, it will have flying, flying. Of course, the second ability is pointless.

So yes, multiple copies of storm will stack. That won't do you much good unless you can generate . Using this card on any other storm spell isn't much better than having two copies of that spell. For example, this, Tendrils, is only one copy more than double Tendrils.