New Card Discussion: Teferis says, "No" to control

[Khahan]

Newest preview card

2UUU
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir

Flash (You may play this spell any time you could play an instant)
Creature cards you own that  aren't in play have flash

Each opponent could play spells only any time he or she could play a sorcery
3/4


Ok, cost aside for just a moment, this card could wreck what we know about control in Vintage.  In short, he says, "You have 8 dead cards in your deck," to anybody packing the standard suite of counter. Then add in people playing stifle, misdirection, daze etc. 

He's fat enough to hold off most aggro creatures. 

Now, for the problem: 2UUU
It costs 5 and does not say, "I win."  But it does say, "You sure will have a tough time winning." 

Can his effect be that drastic in a match that people will add him into a deck?  Not many real current decks have a slot for him.  His affect is superb for combo, but A) he costs too much for combo  B) Most combo is pretty reslient already

But what about new 'old' decks, like MuC?

[Pathian]

Teferi has a powerful effect for sure, but his mana cost makes him unwieldy and difficult to use very quickly without a lotus. It makes him somewhat like Mind Over Matter in that regard. Drain Mana can't help too much with him. If you've got him in MuC, you'd almost certainly want him to be a 3 of since you won't want to see him more than once per game, but conversely, at the 3 slot you run the risk of not seeing him at all since MuC doesn't have a direct way to find creatures other than drawing a bunch of cards.

[Unconquered Son]

I would say that Teferi is actually most similar to cards like Rule of Law and Arcane Laboratory - because he interferes with which spells can be played when, he's also similar to Erayo, Null Rod, and Sphere of Resistance.  I would say that the only advantage he has over the cards I just mentioned is a body and his ability to let you play creature cards at instant speed.  There are perhaps 10 relevant creatures in Vintage, and perhaps half of them will actually be hardcast in their careers.  In my opinion, Teferi's heavy U requirement seals the deal - he's unfit for Vintage.  What he accomplishes can probably be accompished just as well by Arcane Lab or Rule of Law, both of which are much easier on the average Vintage manabase. 

[Sextiger]

Rule of Law, Arcane Laboratory, and Sphere of Resistance are not one sided, they affect both players, while Teferi is just opponents.  He is definitely an interesting card and probably will be played sooner or later, perhaps in some kind of mono blue deck. 

[Whatever Works]

This card doesnt do anything vs. Stax/combo. Its decent in a control mirror, but good luck getting it to resolve. Anyway, How is this card better then Future Sight a card that also says you basically win the game in a control mirror for the exact same casting cost???

Kyle L

[Laharl ex]

I'm sure a lot of decks will be switching out Masticore and Morphling just to see how it is. I doubt it'll be as impactful as a win condition, though. Being able to play him like an instant in nice, though.

The artwork that I've seen for the card is pretty decent.

[brianpk80]

While it's definitely an interesting new card, I'm having a hard time thinking of any deck that would run him over a certain 1 casting cost artifact that serves the same basic purpose.  Is he a "fixed" AEther Vial?

[SonataOfTheCathedral]

In every other format he is nuts, but it is so hard to resolve him, but at least he can be dropped EoT. If there was a control deck with Living Wish, I guess it would be wise to run one, but no Wish deck, sorry.

@ Kyle:

He is better than Future Sight because he comes down the end of your opponents turn, instead of doing a mainphase tap out.

[The Atog Lord]

In Dragon, he costs 1B. Best Xantid Swarm of all time.

[Disburden]

In Dragon, he costs 1B. Best Xantid Swarm of all time.

That IS true. But isn't it a waste of time dumping him instead of dragon and then spending time animating him instead of just animating dragon and creating the loop? Xantid does cost green, but it's also one mana. You also don't waste time doing what you want to do on Dragon on a Xantid.

[Komatteru]

You also don't waste time doing what you want to do on Dragon on a Xantid.

Sometimes you do.  When you're worried about Blue Blast or Stifle particularly (StP as well), and the Swarm has already died once, it's not always terrible to bring it back.  However, I agree with the point that replacing Xantid with Teferi seems a little shady, as Xantid is easily castable, while Teferi has a prohibitive mana cost, despite going aggro much better.

[Khahan]

The other thing to consider is that in Dragon, once the loop starts, Teferi will spend half of his time out of play, meaning his effect won't be active.  And THAT is the time that people want to hit the loop w/ a stifle or bounce or STP.

[Conan_barberarn]

If you use him in Oath, you can be sure to win the turn after he comes into play (reclamation for will for instance). Of course, the creatures used today usually do this without help but with this guy, it's one less dead creature card to draw in your deck.

[TimeWizzle]

I think a combo-oriented oath build with this guy sounds intriguing.  You can thoretically win unopposed the turn he comes into play, as opposed to 1-2 turns after akroma does.  Not to mention the fairly obvious "he pitches to force" observation. 

[Dante]

I'm sure a lot of decks will be switching out Masticore and Morphling just to see how it is. I doubt it'll be as impactful as a win condition, though. Being able to play him like an instant in nice, though.

What decks play Masticore/Morphling?  I think the last real use of these was as a fast win condition in a Core-control deck...or sideboard in Kowal's latest CS as a Moat/pinger vs Fish (which this obv can't replace the functionality of)...

[vartemis]

I had already posted my ideas for testing in the preview thread:

Not Dragon, but I was thinking teferi would be a good large creature for fish.  It would fundamentally change how the deck is played.  During your turn, all you do is untap and attack, or play a med mage.  You dont have to worry about  counters, and you can always play your creatures during your opponent's EOT.  It would also allow you to possibly play drain in the deck.

just a thought.

j

You would just leave your mana open to play counters, and if you have any left over, drop a creature.  It also turns you voidmages into 4cc counters.

j

[Unconquered Son]

You would just leave your mana open to play counters, and if you have any left over, drop a creature.  It also turns you voidmages into 4cc counters.

Who plays 4cc counterspells in vintage?  Fish already has an acceptable counter base that doesn't cost 4 mana, and you're talking about spending 4 on some turn subsequent to spending 2UUU.  What are you doing to affect the game state in the meantime? 

[chrissss]

How would this be good in Oath? 3/4.... You cant wint after one turn with a 3/4 people, even if your opponent can't play instants. A 3/4 becomes blocked by a stupid spirit token, so....

I like the card, but In T1, it just doesnt cut it imo.

[sundering jerk]

This card is great for Dragon if it's animated, I always wanted my zantid swarms to beat and block, but other then that it's to weak. If I drain this I win(good luck getting it up before I have drain mana open) and it doesn't stop combo, stax, frigorid.

[dicemanx]

I'm not sure I understand why this would be good in WGD. I think that there are far better reanimation targets, unless the plan is to actually hardcast this guy (which is going to be a difficult task in WGD).

[parallax]

The Dragon removes him from play anyway. It's not that helpful. They can't remove your entire board though.

[vartemis]

You would just leave your mana open to play counters, and if you have any left over, drop a creature.  It also turns you voidmages into 4cc counters.

Who plays 4cc counterspells in vintage?  Fish already has an acceptable counter base that doesn't cost 4 mana, and you're talking about spending 4 on some turn subsequent to spending 2UUU.  What are you doing to affect the game state in the meantime? 

Im not saying you would, i just meant as a last resort.  You would play fish normally until you get him, and once you cast him, you can go agressive, casting creatures eot with whatever mana is left after casting needed counters.

j