DCI, if you must ban more cards, please make it Bazaar not Bridge

[Clark Kant]

There's a few people saying that Ichorid and Stax are too powerful and should be neutered.

They're wrong, a deck needs to win tournaments to be considered too powerful.

But if you must restrict more cards in Vintage, please make them be..

Bazaar of Bagdad and Mishra's Workshop.

Restricting some other card from Ichorid like Bridge From Below instead of Bazaar would be a horrible horrible horrible idea.

Bazaar is what breaks the deck wide open, providing both an uncounterable discard outlet and a dredge source.

Early kills were very much common and consistent for Manaless Ichorid well before Bridge from Below was ever printed.

If you opt to ban Bridge instead of Bazaar, you wouldn't eliminate the frequency of early kills that Manaless Ichorid can achieve.

The deck would remain every bit as fast using Sutured Ghoul and Dragon Breath for the win as the very competitive preFS builds of the deck did.

You would piss off both the sane people that don't think Ichorid needs to be neutered until it puts up some tournament results, and also piss off the misguided people that lose to Ichorid early because they don't have a decent sideboard because they would continue to lose to Ichorid early.

It would be extended necropotence trix situation all over again, with you guys banning every card in the combo except the actually broken component.

[Clark Kant]

Anyone who's actually familiar with manaless ichorid could tell that...

A.) Manaless Ichorid achieve consistent uncounterable early kills neccesitating that people sideboard against it before Future Sight and Bridge from Below ever saw print. Restricting Bridge wouldn't slow down the deck at all. It would still be capable of consistent uncounterable kills just as quickly using Sutured Ghoul and Dragon Breath as the very competitive preFS builds of the deck did.

B.) Bazaar is the card that breaks the deck, not Bridge. Replacing the Bridge kill with Sutured Ghoul instead really wouldn't hurt the deck much at all.

C.) Manaless Ichorid honestly doesn't deserve to be neutered or any component banned.

D.) Banning Bridge instead of Bazaar would be akin to how wizards first dealt with Necropotence's brokeness by restricting Hymn to Tourach, then Dark Ritual, then Mana Vault, before finally realizing that the actual broken card needs to be the one that should get restricted.

[nineisnoone]

Just a random request?  I haven't heard any "well we have to restrict something" grumblings going on.... You also don't say anything about why workshop should be restricted.

And really, it seems like you don't think they should be restricted.  So if I'm right, don't offer them up to the DCI wolves.

[Clark Kant]

They are there.

There's plenty of forum posts, articles at random sites, and no doubt tons of email going to Wizards asking them to act against Ichorid.

Exactly the same grumblings and complaints that led to drastic bannings at the last annoucement.

[Smmenen]

There is no chance anything is going to happen to Bazaar and Workshop, and thank god of it.

How many Bazaars or Workshops were in the Vintage Champs top 8 this weekend?  Zero Shops, 4 Bazaars.

Seems perfectly fine to me. 

Can we please stop talking about this? 

[frolll]

Well. You say consistant turn 1 uncounterable wins ?

I read your posts, and I got a really strong WTF impression, like "Is he joking ?".

That doesn't make any sense to me ATM. Is Ichorid winning all tournaments and putting + 4 in each top 8 ? Not at all ! So why do you want so bad to ban the engine ? And BTW, banning Bazaar would kill lots of other decks, and the secondary market, something Wizards isn't quite likely to do. I mean, do you actually play Vintage ? There was 1 Ichorid in the last tournament (Worlds) Top 8, and top 4 was TPS - Slaver - Slaver - TPS. And this is after the Brainstorm and Ponder axing. What do you want ? A return to casual Vintage like 1996 ? Man, Shop isn't anywhere near the top of the standings. Heck, Belcher is more threatening.

Trying not to be rude here, but your posts really are annoying. they MUSN'T ban Bazaar, unless they want to destroy what's left of themselves.


EDIT : Oh, I got ninja'd by Stephen. This post was directed towards Clark Kant, just to be sure... :p

[M.Solymossy]

I*s there seriously a a thread?  The format is completely amazing the way  it is!   Ichorid can compete, but isn't overly powerful, and NEVER will be, unless something is DRASTICALLY changed.

[Lurker101]

There is no chance anything is going to happen to Bazaar and Workshop, and thank god of it.

How many Bazaars or Workshops were in the Vintage Champs top 8 this weekend?  Zero Shops, 4 Bazaars.

Seems perfectly fine to me. 

Can we please stop talking about this? 

Yeah I think both cards are broken but healthy. Restrict Bazaar and you lose not only Ichorid but also decks like Madness and Dragon. Workshop is also healthy, how much narrower would the format by restrictions like these cards. Also the number of playable cards goes down. Who's going to play Juggernaut without workshop? Also secondary market values drop and more players leave the format.
If you want to hurt Ichorid without much splash damage on other decks, then restrict Serum Powder.

[Lurker101]

Well. You say consistant turn 1 uncounterable wins ?

I read your posts, and I got a really strong WTF impression, like "Is he joking ?".

That doesn't make any sense to me ATM. Is Ichorid winning all tournaments and putting + 4 in each top 8 ? Not at all ! So why do you want so bad to ban the engine ? And BTW, banning Bazaar would kill lots of other decks, and the secondary market, something Wizards isn't quite likely to do. I mean, do you actually play Vintage ? There was 1 Ichorid in the last tournament (Worlds) Top 8, and top 4 was TPS - Slaver - Slaver - TPS. And this is after the Brainstorm and Ponder axing. What do you want ? A return to casual Vintage like 1996 ? Man, Shop isn't anywhere near the top of the standings. Heck, Belcher is more threatening.

Trying not to be rude here, but your posts really are annoying. they MUSN'T ban Bazaar, unless they want to destroy what's left of themselves.


EDIT : Oh, I got ninja'd by Stephen. This post was directed towards Clark Kant, just to be sure... :p

Damnit, you beat me. That's actually what I was trying to say.

[Dante]

We've had this discussion somewhat recently and give the crap [e.g. not well thought out] initial post, end of thread.