[Deck] 5 Color Stax

[netherspirit]

I've been trying to play Stax properly for ages now, but until recently I've had pretty much no luck with it, my brain doesn't seem to click with it usually.

After toying around with a Staxless Stax list though I've finally managed to build a deck which I find quite easy to play and that does pretty well.

The list so far:

Mana Base:
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Darksteel Ingot
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Tolarian Academy
4 City of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

Creatures:
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
1 Triskelion
1 Karn, Silver Golem
3 Goblin Welder
2 Gorilla Shaman

Artifact Stax Pieces:
3 Sphere of Resistance
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
4 Tangle Wire

Colored Disruption:
1 In the Eye of Chaos
1 Balance

Draw/Tutor:
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Bazaar of Baghdad

Other:
1 Time Walk
3 Crucible of Worlds
2 Forcefield

EDIT: Sorry mods, I hit the Save button by accident, now going to add the rest of the stuff to the thread. Don't close this! Sorry again.

I think the cards are pretty much all self explanatory, however, there are 3 that I can see may seem a bit odd, so I'll explain them.

Darksteel Ingot - Indestructible 5c producer that can easily hit play turn 1, I like it!
Platinum Angel - This is just in for a safety net, but in all honesty it's done very little so far. I'm considering replacing it with another Sundering Titan, any thoughts?
Forcefield - Stax has access to fast mana, especially for artifacts, so I decided Forcefield would be a helpful creature prevention card. Usually the most creatures the opponent gets in is 1 or 2, so this should easily stop them, and may prevent any more that slip through.

I might add Thirst for Knowledge, not only is it a good CA generator but it obviously has the added advantage of ditching artifacts.

Nether Void also looks promising, but I'm not sure whether or not it would be worth it as I'd probably take too long to get for it to actually do much.

My current sideboard is:

3 Choke
1 Sphere of Resistance
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Uba Mask
1 Forcefield
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 ????

Choke - Nearly every deck in the format runs some form of Island, Choke hurts them but not me at all. 
Sphere of Resistance - Hurts Combo and Goblins, which may be too fast for me.
Tormod's Crypt - Slaver, Stax, any other deck running Welder really, Combo, Dragon, etc. It just pwns.
Uba Mask - Hurts Fish's control cards, completely mangles permission decks.
Forcefield - Fish, Goblins and Oath all become pretty weak against Forcefield. Fish runs Null Rod though, so this may not be so helpful there.
Pyrostatic Pillar - Fish, TMWA, Oath, Combo and Slaver are all hit pretty hard by this, most decks are hurt quite a lot, but these 5 suffer more so. I may cause too much damage to myself though.

As you can see I still need 3 more slots, any ideas? I'm concerned about other Stax decks, so maybe Annul, Oxidize, Hurkyl's Recall and Naturalize would be worth adding, I just don't know.

Well there's the deck, any suggestions?

Thanks in advance guys!
 
  Netherspirit

[+t]

Why in god's name aren't you running Crop Rotation?  Tutoring for Strip Mine for G is good, and you're running a 5c mana base, so there's no reason how to run it.

On another note, how's that one Bazaar working out for you?  Seems far too random without the 1 Crop Rotation.  You'd also probably want a Barbarian Ring, to deal with weenies.

Put some Seal of Cleansings in the maindeck.  They deal with Oaths, Fluxes and pesky artifacts.

Force Field is so bad maindeck.  True this is a pain in the ass for Oath game 1, forcing them to tutor up Rushing River, but it does little more than stall.  This is not going to help you for goblins if they go for the Recruiter + Food Chain kill or the Sharpshooter + Prospector plan.  As you've mentioned earlier, Fish runs Rod main.  Pyroclasm and Ensnaring Bridge are the best you can do here.

Your Sideboard is a mess.  Here are some cards for your consideration:

Pyroclasm: Fish, Goblins, Aggro
Seal of Cleansing: Already touched on this
REB/Pyroblast: Gifts, Slaver, Combo (You want to hit Rebuild/Hurkyl's)

Also, I'm pretty sure I count all five colors. 

[Komatteru]

1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
1 Triskelion
1 Karn, Silver Golem

Yuck.  Everytime you draw one of these early, you are going to be upset.  I, in fact, cut Titan from my 5c Stax build some time ago because I found that I was drawing the thing far too often, and it's not exactly something you can cast.  Since you're playing SoR and don't have any Bazaars, you can bet that you won't be casting these things anytime early, with exception of Karn (who's not  good unless you already have a favorable board position).  I'd cut two of them for something else that does something.

Trike is the practical limit for what you can pay.  Any more than 6 is just too hard to get to, and playing multiples of anything over 6 can just spell disaster.

[M.Solymossy]

In my personal opinion, you should either run Ray Robillard's Staxless stax deck  or Jeremy Seroogy's recent top8 stax list.

Ray Robillard   Staxless Stax
4 Mishras Workshop
4 Wasteland
4 City of Brass
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Strip Mine
1 Crop Rotation
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Karn Silver Golem
1 Sundering Titan
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Balance
1 Memory Jar
1 Trinisphere
1 Duplicant
4 Goblin welder
4 Chailce of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
3 Crucible of Worlds
2 Sensei's Divining top
2 Triskelion
1 Black lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana vault
2 Darksteel Ignot
1 Sol ring

SB
3 Choke
3 Eon Hub
1 Leyline of the Void
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Fire/Ice
1 Darkblast
1 In the eye of Chaos
1 Arcane Laboratory
1 Rule of Law

1 Black Lotus
4 Chalice Of The Void
3 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Pithing Needle
4 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
4 Sphere Of Resistance
1 Trinisphere
1 Duplicant
1 Sundering Titan
1 Triskelavus
3 Goblin Welder
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Balance
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
1 In The Eye Of Chaos
1 Bazaar Of Baghdad
4 City Of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Rishadan Port
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard:
1 Jester's Cap
3 Orb Of Dreams
1 Pithing Needle
1 Duplicant
4 Juggernaut
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray Of Revelation
1 In The Eye Of Chaos

I would suggest starting there first.   

[The_spooky_kid]

Why in god's name aren't you running Crop Rotation?  Tutoring for Strip Mine for G is good, and you're running a 5c mana base, so there's no reason how to run it.

On another note, how's that one Bazaar working out for you?  Seems far too random without the 1 Crop Rotation.  You'd also probably want a Barbarian Ring, to deal with weenies.

Put some Seal of Cleansings in the maindeck.  They deal with Oaths, Fluxes and pesky artifacts.

Force Field is so bad maindeck.  True this is a pain in the ass for Oath game 1, forcing them to tutor up Rushing River, but it does little more than stall.  This is not going to help you for goblins if they go for the Recruiter + Food Chain kill or the Sharpshooter + Prospector plan.  As you've mentioned earlier, Fish runs Rod main.  Pyroclasm and Ensnaring Bridge are the best you can do here.

Your Sideboard is a mess.  Here are some cards for your consideration:

Pyroclasm: Fish, Goblins, Aggro
Seal of Cleansing: Already touched on this
REB/Pyroblast: Gifts, Slaver, Combo (You want to hit Rebuild/Hurkyl's)

Also, I'm pretty sure I count all five colors. 

As most people know I am an avid stax player.  Some insightful advice you added to this thread I'd just like to comment on.  Crop rotation is neither good or bad.  In decks that run the 4 chalices main many of the times it can be a dead draw.  The only function of the card is to infact find strip mine or maybe even bazaar of baghdad.  Doing this it nets you card disadvantage, and the card itself has very limited playability. Tutor for 2 cards, and can be a dead draw vs 30% of your matches theoretically.  I recently cut crop rotation from the list I ran at SCG roanoke, and in fact I never really missed it. 

For the question of the bazaar of baghdad, Bazaar of baghdad is an amazing 1 of hands down.  Granted it gives you card disadvantage as well it also lets you get rid of dead draws.  It has incredible sinergy with welders and crucibles as well. Barbarian ring IMO is pretty outdated for 5c stax not running the full bazaar engine.  It is very difficult to get threshhold early enough for it to matter. Thats why I added Mishra's factory to the main of my stax build.  It can deal with early creatures, its recurrable, reusable, and gives an uncounterable clock. 

You also suggested to add seal of cleansing main.  Seal of cleansing is another one of those outdated stax cards.  Granted it is a very good card to see when oath and dragon are heavy in the metagame but right now that isnt the case.  right now there are many other cards that are suitable in these slot(s).

I however will agree with you on the sunject of forcefield.  Forcefield is very limited in its abilty to do anything.  While it can give you the upperhand against the aggro matchup, why run a card thats only limited to fish or oath? 

Pyroclasm also seems subpar.  All the cards that you are suggesting seem way too narrow.  Maybe the reason you are having problems with aggro are because of the lack of smokestack?  while I know Ray Robillard and his success with Staxless Stax, I'm sure he would agree that killing your own welders severely hurts your game vs any deck.  The good aggro decks have been running Jotun Grunt and your sb strategy seems poor vs this.  If you want an answer to creatures run duplicant, triskelion, or triskelivus.  All offer ways to deal with creatures, and do something if they don't have creatures. Mainly they give you a clock.

[netherspirit]

Hey guys! Thanks for the input so far!!!!!

@-t: I have to agree with The_spooky_kid on Crop Rotation, it's pretty dead at times. I can see why people choose to run it, but I've found that usually I can disrupt my opponent enough without having to rely on a ONE-OF to slow them even more.

I don't get threshold very early, so I felt that Barbarian Ring just wasn't worth it.

The one Bazaar is working out great! I rarely draw it so early that it just sits in my hand while I'm developing my mana base, but when I DO draw it (obviously later in the game) it's just insane with Welder and Crucible.

I may cut 1 Forcefield, but it's not doing too bad to be honest.

I don't know how you can suggest Ensnaring Bridge! :shock: It hurts me just as much as it hurts them! Pyroclasm seems OK, but it'll kill 5 of my creatures, and typically those 5 are VERY important, especially the 3 Welders.

@JDizzle: Getting the mana to drop those really isn't that hard, especially when you're opponent is way behind you due to Strip effects and Tangle Wires. I think I will cut Platinum Angel though. Any suggestions what I could replace it with?

Oh, and yeah, I miscounted..... My bad

@13NoVa: I played around with Ray's deck (it was that one that got me better with Stax), and I loved most of it, although certain aspects such as Crop Rotation just didn't work for me. I shall play with both these decks again though to see what more I can learn from them.

@The_spooky_kid: I think I shall try Duplicant and possibly another Triskelion in my SB, they both seem very useful for the aggro matchup.

So now I have a possible 2 free slots (-1 Platinum Angel, -1 Forcefield), any suggestions what I can put in?

[FlamingCloud]

Do you really think that 5 color stax with a 5 color mana base and chokes in the board should be called 4 Color Stax because you cut crop rotation?  That seems like the most ridiculous rename since... well.... ever.

[Harlequin]

5 Color stax is StripmineStax.dec.

2 Black tutors + crop rotation is a minimum.

Imperial Seal is good in 5 color stacks too.  We even kicked around the idea of running 4 crucibles and ENTOMB because stripmine is so insane.  Every game you should be asking yourself "how is this hand going to get my stripmine + crucible?"

I agree that Plats is overkill, and Titan is debatable.  Karn is also debateable.  I would cut some fat there (as suggested).

Remeber that Bridge is only there to keep you alive until you can utterly stax-lock them outa the game.  Then if they haven't scooped, just weld out or smoke out the bridge and win the game.  winning the game is a formality once you have them locked.

[netherspirit]

Do you really think that 5 color stax with a 5 color mana base and chokes in the board should be called 4 Color Stax because you cut crop rotation?  That seems like the most ridiculous rename since... well.... ever.

As I mentioned above.... I miscounted I'll change the name now though.

[The_spooky_kid]

5 Color stax is StripmineStax.dec.

2 Black tutors + crop rotation is a minimum.

Imperial Seal is good in 5 color stacks too.  We even kicked around the idea of running 4 crucibles and ENTOMB because stripmine is so insane.  Every game you should be asking yourself "how is this hand going to get my stripmine + crucible?"

I agree that Plats is overkill, and Titan is debatable.  Karn is also debateable.  I would cut some fat there (as suggested).

Remeber that Bridge is only there to keep you alive until you can utterly stax-lock them outa the game.  Then if they haven't scooped, just weld out or smoke out the bridge and win the game.  winning the game is a formality once you have them locked.

You must play a very different game than most of us.  5c stax is far from "strip mine" stax.  The 2 black tutors are fine. They can get a large array of threats at very little cost.  Crop rotation although its cheap, its also card disadvantage, and perminant disadvantage. If crop rotation gets countered it is a 2 for one, and even if it resolves it is a 2 for one.  I agree getting someone in the strip lock is nice, but you shouldn't build your deck around it.  Imperial seal is incredibly slow.  What is the point of running ensnaring bridge? seriously! This card does absolutely nothing to aid you. If they are dropping multiple creatures you are doing something wrong.  How are titan and Karn debateable? They are both 2 of the strongest kill conditions in stax. sundering titan often times is a 3 or 4 for one.  Karn is in the same catagory.  He kills moxen, and is an incredibly fast clock with your other lock components.   Stax without these in the deck will lack severe threat density and both are a must.

[Harlequin]

I think the deck your looking to play is something like Gilded Claw, or Turn1 Titan... not nessisarily stax.  Seeing Karn or Titan, or Trike are all bad cards to draw in the early game.  They are nothing but dead weight without a discard outlet + welder. 

5 color stax has access to many 1-of or restricted bombs.  Stripmine, Trinisphere, Balance, Choke, ItEoC, Tormod's Crypt.  Then it has tutors to cherry pick the correct card to do the most damage to the current game state.  Tinkering for a lock piece is often better than tinkering for sundering titan or Karn in stax... Even if you think you have the win on the board.

The game plan you should be going for is:  Soft Lock -> Hard Lock -> win condition.

Soft lock cards are cards like Mox Monkey, Chalice, Sphere of resistance, Tanglewire.  Hard Lock cards involve either Sphere(s)-Welder-Smokestack or sphere(s)-Crucible-Stripmine.  Once you have hard lock, your win condition is irrelevant, it could be 20 turns of welder beats! 

As far as Hard Lock options:
Welder + Smokestacks
-- 2 unrestricted cards
-- cards are decent on thier own
However
-- costs 1 colored mana and 4 shop mana.
-- Nets you negative artifacts every turn, so you will have to have a steady playable stream of artifacts until you get double welder, or double smokestack or a crucible... ultimately not that difficult, but this road requires more choices and a bit of luck after it is in place.

Crucible + Stripmine
-- 3 shopable mana
-- Crucible + Strip even without Spheres is a good peice of Soft Lock (throw in a monkey and you have some savage mana denial).
-- Crucible alone is good advantage for your deck.
Biggest disadvantage to this lock: Stirpmine is restricted.

Uba (mono red) Stax need to generally go for the first lock, because it had no reliable way of finding stripmine.
5c Stax has the ability to run 4 cards that dirrectly tutor for stripmine (5 if you include entome ). So it can go for the "easier" crucible-strip lock more often.

As for Bridge, if you don't see its value, its because you're considering attacking your opponent before you have astablished a good solid lock.  Once you have the lock rolling, you've got smokestax to clear thier board.  Once there board is wiped, weld out the Bridge and give'em 20 turns of welder beats.