[Card Discussion] Cranial Extraction in Vintage

[emperorofguam]

Any card that has the potential to rob an opponent of every copy of a given card in his/her deck peaks my interest.  The question that must be asked though, is Cranial Extraction playable, is the one that I now pose?  Several cards have amazing effects, but just fall into the realm of being completely unusable in the format for one of many reasons:  casting cost, speed, or possibly the existence of a better version of the card.

First of all let us look at the casting cost of this spell, 3B.  It goes against one of the primary casting cost rules of Magic, it costs more than three and is not blue or an artifact.  By this criteria this card is unplayable, but there are other cards that fall into this category that still see play, such as Yawgmoth's Bargain, and Nether Void (I guess we have to be very loose in our definition of the term "sees play"), .  Now by no stretch of the imagination could the power of this spell be in anyway compared to that of Bargain, but it may have an effect that could be in the same ball park as Nether Void.  Although it breaks this long tried and tested fundamental rule of vintage magic, I still believe that an argument exists for it.

As for the speed of the spell, sorcery, we could ask for better, I don't think we'd ever get it, but one cardboard nerd's dreams aside, decent for the established guidelines of the game.

Finally does a better version of the card exist?  I would like to say arguably no, but at the same time yes.  Extract:  U sorcery search target player’s library for a card and remove that card from the game. Then that player shuffles his or her library. In a world of deck lists that go on and on for 15 pages because of the gaggle of one ofs in the vintage Meta game some would say that extract is enough, but do these staples of which we speak truly define any deck?  If we were to cut one of them from a deck, would it really make that much of a difference?  I cannot come to a definitive answer, but what about the cards upon which the decks are built, the mana drains, the smokestacks, the goblin welders, the dark rituals, the worldgorger dragons, etc....  In one fell swoop it is possible to completely eliminate everyone from an opposing deck. 

It is that possibility that makes me very interested in seeing if there is any potential for this card in vintage.

For the sake of argument I threw together a deck for discussion.

Sorceries   

4 Cranial Extraction
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
4 Night’s Whisper
2 Tendril’s of Agony
1 Yawgmoth’s Will

Instants   

1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
3 Diabolic Edict

Enchantments   

4 Phyrexian Arena

Creatures   

4 Withered Wretch

Non-Basic Lands   

3 Polluted Delta

Basic Lands   

7 Swamp

Artifacts   

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Lotus Petal
4 Pithing Needle

The deck is mono black; though blue could be splashed in for total uberness, and it would in theory seek to disrupt the first couple of turns, while developing a strong hand/graveyard, then tendrils for the win. 

The bad news is that in theory it would be slower than your traditional grim long, IT, TPS, or what have you, but you could trade some of that speed, for a little more stability and a lot more disruption along the way.  Then again I'm not trying to break the format with a new deck, just posing it for the consideration of Cranial Extraction.  Anyway, let me know what you think, the good, the bad, the ugly...

Thanks

[netherspirit]

While Cranial Extraction does indeed have a powerful effect; it usually only affects the long term game and does little to affect the early and middle stages. The mana cost is also a problem.

 Take Cabal Therapy, this is (to a degree) Cranial Extraction's little brother (besides the flashback), yet it is much better. Why? Because it costs only rather than Cranial's and therefore can affect the early game. The same logic applies to Extract; it removes a single problem card as early as turn 1.

 Cranial doesn't affect the game in any immediate way; therefore it offers no real advantage in Vintage as many games are over, or as good as over, by turn 5 or 6 at the latest. The only time it would be useful is if your opponent is near to topdecking a bomb; but you wouldn't know when this is about to happen would you? Rendering it simply a matter of luck.

 I think Cranial Extraction has the potential for a place in some sideboards, but it is just not necessary. I've tried it in various decks and it's done nothing to help at all; by time I can play it, either I'm already winning and it's just a pointless draw or it's too late and I'm about to lose.

Well, that's just what I have to say on it.

 netherspirit

[recycler]

I agree with netherspirit. But... this card can get your opponent by the balls if the following conditions are met:

1) You're not playing "real T1" (with moxen and that kind of stuff) and mainly walk in an unpowered metagame.

2) You're playing a deck that has a long-term gameplan (typically control). That is quite important, because if you
play a speedy Deck, your opponent would never had drawn the removed copies anyway: In that case, you don't give
your opponent enough time to dig through his library. Duress or Cabal Therapy are better choices.
Since (real) T1 IS typically the speediest environment, Duress or Cabal Therapy are (lightyears) better than Cranial Extraction.

3) Your opponent plays a deck, that relies heavily on only one 4-of-Card. Take Oath for example. If you manage to counter the
first Oath and then aim a Cranial Extraction at the remaining Oath-Copies: GG.

I personally like to side in Cranial Extraction against opposing Control-Decks. Aim them at their FoW or Drains, and they are forced to
counter it. If they do/can, you had drawn a Counter. If they do/can not, the opposing Deck lacks a serious amount of Control.
For me, Cranial Extraction is only a sideboard-option. In the first Game, you often do not know wich card to call, because you don't know
the deck you're fighting against.

Over and above Cranial Extraction, I'm also a big fan of a mid-game, Burning-Wish-fetched, drain-powered Haunting Echoes. Let the opposing
graveyard contain only 4 to 5 "4-of-cards", and the game should be your's. But that would be another card discussion

[zeus-online]

I personally like to side in Cranial Extraction against opposing Control-Decks. Aim them at their FoW or Drains, and they are forced to
counter it. If they do/can, you had drawn a Counter. If they do/can not, the opposing Deck lacks a serious amount of Control.

I sure hope you aren't talking about MAKING them counter cranial extraction with Mana drain....

I honestly don't see what this card does, that extract dosn't do better, the most scary cards are restricted, and extract handles restricted cards better then extraction.

Oh yeah and control decks with "long-term gameplan"'s are extinct in Type 1. Atleast to my knowledge.

/Zeus

[scribe888]

I'm suggesting that you take out the Cranial Extractions and place them in your sideboards. you're Your argument is correct, but it depends on your meta - if it is oath/dragon infested then Cranial Extraction might be main deck material.

Also, i suggest you replace those Phyrexian Arenas with Dark Confidants: faster, easier to cast, makes for mini tendrils win.

It only takes a few extra seconds to use capitals where appropriate, so please take the time in future.
-Godder

[wethepeople]

I guess Cranial Extraction is good, but it doesnt see play because taking four cards isn't usually necessary. Hide and Seek however takes virtually two. The first being Darksteel Colossus; their easy Tinker route. Secondly, Tendrils of Agony. I know that it doesnt officially RFG Tendrils in addition to DSC, but you must admit that it is tough to Tendrils-win after gaining another 11 life points.

If you think about it, there arent usually four cards that most Vintage decks even need to win, except for CS, and Oath. Fish is impossible to deprive of each of it's creatures, unless that is you manage to resolve like four Extractions. So the issue doesnt necessarily come down to the heavy casting cost, except versus Drain decks, but the lack of targets.

It's just not worth spending four mana to take out two actual threats, then two other cards that arent even going to do that much.

[Dakkon]

I would rather use jesters cap or extract.

Jesters cap is an artifact that can take any 3 cards out (all of the win conditions in storm, gifts, dragon, and Oath). Plus since its an artifact it can be welded in.

Extract is blue. And it a great 1st turn play as you can see their whole deck for future sideboarding AND if your against Gifts or Tendirls you made their win really hard if not impossible and you can make a strategy to stop the other win condition if there is one. But this is mostly a sideboard card.

If your playing enough black to play Cranial Extraction then its likely you would be better off playing hide//seek or Extract. since your usually playing with blue or white as well.

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

Besides like Mana drain and force of will... most of the cards you would want to name are usually singulars like tendrils, will, tinker.

I don't believe that this is currently the best way to go about battling the tier1 decks in vintage but you may do better as to look at lower cc incarnations of cranial such as Extract (U sorcery).

[emperorofguam]

Thank you guys for your help.  I think we can safely say that Cranial Extraction is either unnecessary, not cost efficient, or an inferior version of cards currently available in the format.