Toolkit for Trinket Mage?

[wethepeople]

Lately, I have been messing with a Fish build that is based around utilizing Trinket Mage to acquire whichever [1cc] Artifact in my main deck as a bit of a toolbelt. This has been done before, I know, especially in Legacy, but I am still looking to improve on the idea a bit, here in Vintage.

I came here to ask additional options that I could use in my list, I am already considering the following, all for fairly obvious reasons:

• Pithing Needle
• Engineered Explosives
• Chalice of the Void
• Tormod's Crypt

Now, I understand that following a 1cc criteria is difficult, but, I am sure that there are other options available that I am just unaware of, this of course is why I came here. I may very well have covered all of them though.

Any recomendations? (Please note that if additional decklist information is needed for any particular reason, I would be glad to do so, just contact me through a PM)

[meadbert]

Aether Spellbomb should probably be considered.

[Jank Golem]

In my experience with Trinket Mage in Salvagers based decks, Sensei's Divining Top and AEther Spellbomb are both strong. Sensei's Divining Top is great at manipulating your library which leads to fewer dead draws. This makes it great in lots of matchups but I find it most useful against control. Besides bouncing creatures AEther Spellbomb lets you draw your deck along with Black Lotus and Auriok Salvagers.

[Metman]

Lately, I have been messing with a Fish build that is based around utilizing Trinket Mage to acquire whichever [1cc] Artifact in my main deck as a bit of a toolbelt. This has been done before, I know, especially in Legacy, but I am still looking to improve on the idea a bit, here in Vintage.

I came here to ask additional options that I could use in my list, I am already considering the following, all for fairly obvious reasons:

• Pithing Needle
• Engineered Explosives
• Chalice of the Void
• Tormod's Crypt

Now, I understand that following a 1cc criteria is difficult, but, I am sure that there are other options available that I am just unaware of, this of course is why I came here. I may very well have covered all of them though.

Any recomendations? (Please note that if additional decklist information is needed for any particular reason, I would be glad to do so, just contact me through a PM)

I've seen some people bounce around the idea of running Trinket Mage in Masknought builds grabbing the Dreadnought.  I thought that was a sexy idea.  Powder Keg and of course the mana artifacts are available too.  Trinket Mage is a good excuse to run LED in a deck too.

[Dnine]

If it's a fish based build, then skullclamp may be an option.  Other then that the options are limited to what's been suggested...other then powder keg, that costs 2.  I second the top and the blue and red spellbombs. 

[wethepeople]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

How on earth could I forget Spellbombs? Seeing as I have payed much interest into most all Bomberman variants that I have come across since SCG Boston.

Both the and Spellbombs (Pyrite and AEther) seem like adequate choices, although, are they any better than, say, Engineered Explosives?

[The Atog Lord]

Both the and Spellbombs (Pyrite and AEther) seem like adequate choices, although, are they any better than, say, Engineered Explosives?

The Blue Spellbomb handles a Colossus much better than Engineered Explosives.

[policehq]

But Engineered Explosives has a lot more to say about Warrens tokens.

O-Naginata would be sexy on a Jotun Grunt...

-hq

[OfficeShredder]

So it would seem like running one of each would be a good idea, since the point is to have one solution for everything

[TopSecret]

Moratorium Stone could be useful,
if you ever really needed to remove all copies of one card.     

Also...
You could always maindeck a Brassman!

[Phele]

I've seen some people bounce around the idea of running Trinket Mage in Masknought builds grabbing the Dreadnought.  I thought that was a sexy idea.  Powder Keg and of course the mana artifacts are available too.  Trinket Mage is a good excuse to run LED in a deck too.

What I don't like about Trinket in Mask builds is that you can't play him under the Mask so you always have to cast him. But imo the main goal in Mask builds is to get the Mask and not to find the Dreadnought. And for sure, you cant search for Powder Keg with Trinket. LED is just a bad card when you don't play a storm or a Salvager deck. Oviously the thread starter is looking for some Fish build.

The stated Needle, EE, Crypt, Chalice and Bomb are the obvious targets but as a Bomberman player I would always ask myself why not add some Salvagers to make Trinket even more broken.

[JR]

I have no idea what you are playing, but if it has the Salvagers combo in it, don't forget about Phyrexian Furnace. It removes cards in graveyards, albeit a bit slowly, and acts as another spellbomb to combo with. Also, unless you are already in red, and your metagame has lots of fish in it, I would not bother with Pyrite spellbomb. It's always underwhelming for me.

Black Lotus.

JR.

[Methuselahn]

Your fish build with Trinket Mage may enjoy a Cursed Scroll.  Maybe not, but I didn't see it mentioned yet.

[roberts91rom]

I have no idea what you are playing, but if it has the Salvagers combo in it, don't forget about Phyrexian Furnace. It removes cards in graveyards, albeit a bit slowly, and acts as another spellbomb to combo with. Also, unless you are already in red, and your metagame has lots of fish in it, I would not bother with Pyrite spellbomb. It's always underwhelming for me.

Black Lotus.

JR.

Please tell me you aren't saying that pyrite spellbomb is bad in Salvagers.

[Methuselahn]

For the gabillionth time on these forums, you have to justify adding red for something else because you can just combo off with AEther bomb, draw your deck, load your hand with counters, cast all your dudes, and time walk.  Pyrite is ancient technology.  It's just not optimal.

I'm quite sure JR knows about the combo as he has placed in several tournaments with Salvagers decks.

[JR]

Pyrite spellbomb is significantly worse than almost any other option you can run. Sure, it kills fish creatures, but so do all your guys. Maybe it kills welder, but you have infi other answers to welder, or you can just bounce him. Ask anyone that has played bomberman and done well and they will tell you that aether spellbomb is an invaluable tool that is fantastic utility, while pyrite is the very definition of win more.

If you would like me to explain my thoughts further, please PM me. I don't think anyone cares about which bomb is better.

JR.

[Evol daN]

I am not sure but it seems likely that the list of useful artifacts is complete with this list

AEther Vial... my 2 cents
Chalice of the Void
Pithing Needle
Tormod's Crypt/Phyrexian Furnace
Engineered Explosives
Aether Spellbomb
Cursed Scroll... probably SB
Mana Artifacts

I also have been kicking around the idea of a Trinket Mage based fish hate deck. I have found that the fetching of mana artifacts cannot be praised enough. Fetching B.Lotus allows you to sit on UU coutermagic off turn after tapping out, while also potentially increasing your total mana production on the next turn.

The questions I have encountered, which are directly related to this topic is this:
Does a Trinketty Fish build run Thirst for Knowledge as a draw engine, and second can the increased reliability of artifact mana allow the deck to run potent cards such as Gifts Ungiven?
The implication here is a fish deck that can beat your face or drop you in a combo turn, and a deck that may transform from the board into a heavier combo orientation to fix a matchup.

[wethepeople]

May I first point out that all of these are great suggestions, and it they have helped me out a lot.

Just to clear things up, this is a Fish build, not Bomberman. I did in fact get the idea from Bomberman, although, I plan for this to be a completely different deck.

Aether Vial wouldn't fit in here, because my current list only runs 11 creatures, all of which found at different casting costs.

I am going to use both Spellbombs, however, I am unsure if I should still run Echoing Truth in addition to Aether Spellbomb. My reasoning for E-truth over say, Chain of Vapor, is that the curve is looking fairly heavy on 1-cc, so I don't want to be in the position where I completely bend over to Chalice at .

I currently have 2 MD answers to DSC (E-truth, Spellbomb), and two that make it possible to get a hold of them. If my opponent is cool however, I still can handle his/her 13583464 Goblin tokens using one of the two Engineered Explosives MD, accessable by Demonic Tutor, or Trinket Mage.

Chalice of the Void is great in here, and strangely, it works well at almost every quantity of charge counters. Having one counter shuts down my Toolbelt of answers, but I still have a good amount of ways to get around them.

I have a little piece of tech that has been doing wonders for me in here, though, I choose not to reveal it just yet. 

[Dnine]

Since you are holding off on posting a list, can you at least say what colors you are running?  Right now it sounds like UBR but this deck sounds like it wants white for M. mage and Grunt.  4 color seems shacky as you want a full compliment of colorless mana accelaration.  Since you are running tinket mage as your main tutor, black seems like it could be cut.  On the other hand Black could give you duress and therapy since you need something to do with your trinket mages after you cast them.  What direction are you planning on taking this? 

[Fubar]

Don't forget the artifact lands, to ensure drops when needed.

[SonataOfTheCathedral]

Artifact Lands usually aren't better than a mox. Moxes don't get hit by Wasteland. And they all get stomped by the same hate except Chalice Of The Void.

[wethepeople]

Artifact Lands usually aren't better than a mox. Moxes don't get hit by Wasteland. And they all get stomped by the same hate except Chalice Of The Void.

Agreed. I once played an Affinity deck that used Seat of the Synods over basic Islands, and I never enjoyed being shut out by Null Rod, as well as become even more vulnerable to Wasteland, which basically is the whole reason that people even use Basics in Vintage.

Engineered Explosives has been showing to be my favorite Mage-target, followed by Pithing Needle. Countless times I have been in the position where I need to get rid of ETW tokens, or, clear the board of my opponents Fishies. A few times, I have actually found myself searching for Pyrite Spellbomb, commonly because I need to get rid of one specific threat, or, I already have a fair advantage over creatures. Aether Spellbomb is okay, I haven't needed to use it that many times really. I have saved myself of DSC, but as of late January, Empty the Warrens has been the more-dominant kill in Gifts.

I really hate to give you guys so little information on my decklist just yet, but it is too early in testing for me to post.

[UR]

I am not sure but it seems likely that the list of useful artifacts is complete with this list

AEther Vial... my 2 cents
Chalice of the Void
Pithing Needle
Tormod's Crypt/Phyrexian Furnace
Engineered Explosives
Aether Spellbomb
Cursed Scroll... probably SB
Mana Artifacts

Depending on the deck that you are running I'd add the following two cards;

Skullclamp (I've seen it used as a singleton in some decks with varying degrees of succes)
Sensei's Divining Top (don't underestimate this little card if a game lasts longer than 3 turns).

In my Masknought I run three Trinket Mages with the following artifacts maindecked because of it;

1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle (still not sure about this one)
2 Sensei's Divining Top

But much more likely targets include;

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire

No matter how cute the tricks are with the other cards however, I most often just find myself tutoring for a Sapphire just to keep Drain Mana open and gain some more tempo. Or, when I'm on the Illusionary Mask plan I'll tutur for a Dreadnought but Tinker is also an option.

Sideboard I also run Aether Spellbomb. Mostly against Oath of Druids as I don't fear Colossus (my guys are bigger) and it performs admirably. Also, there are additionaly Tormod's Crypts and Pithing Needles.


Slightly off-topic;

Agreed. I once played an Affinity deck that used Seat of the Synods over basic Islands, and I never enjoyed being shut out by Null Rod, as well as become even more vulnerable to Wasteland, which basically is the whole reason that people even use Basics in Vintage.

In my old list I used to run a bigger toolbox, including Seat of the Synod and Engineered Explosives, because I ran Artificer's Intuition. The Intuition isn't necessarily worse than Trinket Mage but it requires a bigger artifact count. Seat of the Synod was a necessary evil but I never really liked it (for the reasons that you gave). The upside to SotS is that it can be discarded to Thirst for Knowledge and to the Intuition itself. So it may not be worse if you use a different skeleton for tutoring.

[Khahan]

I had a fish build a few months ago posted that featured a trinket mage tool box. And it uses exactly the cards you posted. I've found that to be a pretty effective strategy.

[JR]

While I think the general consensus is that an artifact land is subpar, I have found that with bomberman, Which had 5 islands, 4 tundras, and 4-6 fetches for blue sources, I would much rather run darksteel citadel if I was to run an artifact land. This would probably be over the lone strip mine. This is a decent choice in a stax meta, because a resolved salvagers becomes a crucible for you.

I still don't think I would run it, but hey, just throwing out ideas here.

JR.